XS Coil?

[seahunter34]

I'm trying to find my right-for-me land/beach detector and am comparing my XS to others. It is modified on a Whites rod with 1/4 plug, 1600 Excalibur battery pod and with 10X12 SEF. There is no doubt the XS is tougher to learn, but I like it. What would be the best all-around use coil/size for learning this machine?

 

[sgoss66]

seahunter --

I'm not sure if ANY coil would make your Explorer "easier to learn." Others might disagree, not sure, but personally most of the differences between coils (of similar size) seem to me to be fairly subtle. Performance seems to be generally similar. In other words, your 10x12 SEF vs. a Minelab Pro Coil vs. 10" Minelab FBS coil -- you might not notice a whole lot of difference, in terms of which might make the machine "easier to learn" (though some HAVE said that some of the old the Minelab "Slimline" coils were "falsy," and thus possibly "more difficult.") I think along the same lines, you also may not notice a whole ton of difference between an 8" SunRay, 8" Minelab FBS, and 6x8 SEF coil -- not sure any of those would make your machine "easier to learn." While there are some other subtle differences between the coils that might help you out in specific scenarios, my personal opinion is that in general, an Explorer would not be appreciably easier or harder to learn, just by switching out a coil.

Just my 2 cents worth...

Steve

 

[seahunter34]

sgoss66, thanks for your advice and help. I guess I should have asked if a smaller coil than the 12X10 SEF would make learning the Explorer easier, with the idea less ground is being processed? But it sounds like that would not matter, so I might as well work with the SEF. So far I'm frustrated with the XS and to tell the truth it does not seem to hit targets in Quick Start as well as my other single and double frequency machines. Compared to them the Explorer seems wishy-washy. But I do see the potential when I play with some adjustments- it kind of opens the XS up a bit.

My XS is light and balanced on the S rod and despite my frustrations, something tells me to stick with it. Difficult to do when the other machines just seem to nail deep known targets in my hot ground. But I did find a coin in my yard with the XS, that I know I have scanned before with other machines and missed. It was not very deep and another machine also detected it before recovery, but only after knowing exactly where it was. I realize the XS is older, but it should still find treasure as good or better than most machines- I hope?!

 

[sgoss66]

I have never used an XS, seahunter, and I think it has only one VDI number (conductivity, correct?) -- I really like the "two numbers" (FE and CO) on the newer Explorers. Having said that, I know most agree that ALL the Explorers are great units. One thing I'd suggest -- if I am not mistaken, the older Explorers would start up at 16 sensitivity in "quick start." The SE Pro was re-done, to start at 22 sensitivity, I think. If your ground does not have a ton of trash, especially iron, you might run the sensitivity up higher (not TOO high, but higher) to hit those deeper targets.

Can you describe what you mean by "wishy-washy?" If you are talking about it not hitting as "solidly" on a deep target as some other machines, sensitivity could help some. One last thing, but you probably already know -- don't rely TOO much on the numbers...while Explorers generally ID very well, deeper targets are harder to ID -- and one key to deep-coin hunting is to accept that the deep targets will NOT ID as reliably/consistently.

Steve

 

[seahunter34]

Wishy-Washy means... there is a quarter buried now for months at nearly 12 inches in my hot ground. My AT Pro with 11 DD coil, my CZ70 with 8 mono and GTP1350 with 10X7 mono all hit that coin hard at around 75% sensitivity. My Excalibur 1000 with 12X10 SEF still hits that coin even with sensitivity set at minimum! The XS with 12X10 SEF and in the Quick Start Mode does not hit the coin as well! I just get a chirp, unless I scrub the ground for a tone that changes. The other machines still hit the coin with coils several inches above the ground. I'm actually shocked how well the GTP/mono combo hits the coin! If I raise the XS coil at all, the coin is lost.

This is what frustrates me because my ground is difficult. 93 on ATP GB. I would have thought the XS would easily detect the coin better than the other machines? Why would I want to spend any time with the XS in the starter mode with results like this? I would be better off hunting with a 250! But when I experimented with advanced mode settings, the XS seemed to warm up. I found that XS actually lost depth with too much sensitivity! As long as other adjustments were made, sens could be run at 14-16 (and I do not know for sure what I'm doing adjustment wise) and the XS hit the coin with the coil above the ground. But still not as hard. I know 1 target does not tell the whole story, but even the GTP with mono coil seems to work better??? How can this be?

Yet as a BBS user and from what others here say, I just have to think the XS would out-perform the other machines. What's more surprising is that the high frequency ATP nails the coin the best (and it's much hotter on gold rings!)- so I started thinking perhaps single frequency detector technology has finally eclipsed FBS? Even the newer production 1350 hits the coin as hard as the famed CZ70!

Perhaps it's the phones I'm using- I do not have a good set for the XS? As an Excalibur user I'm comfortable with sound hunting. That's why I'm hoping the XS will shine for me. I just know if I can't get better performance from the XS, there is no way I would upgrade to a II or ETrack. I'll experiment some more, but with FBS one would think that would not have to be done much?

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

Don't base the performance of the XS against a later SE or an E-Trac till you have someone come over to your burried coin and have a swing over it. The processors and other things got better as Minelab came out with the next in line machine. Remember the XS is the first out and the others were improved upon based on user feedback and other things. The E-Trac is classified as not even as an Explorer it's a machine un to itself the first in that line.

 

[sgoss66]

Tom is right; I would try, if you can, an E-Trac or SE Pro and see what your results are.

HAVING SAID THAT...a 12" coin is a DEEEEEEP coin for a detector, any detector. I am surprised in your tough ground that your other machines hit this target so hard (though high frequency machines deal better with hot ground, so that might be why the AT Pro does well; still, FBS should stand out in bad ground, also). In my experience, a 10-12" coin with an Explorer is a very deep coin...getting near the fringe of detection depth. I'm at a loss as to why your XS won't hit the coins as well as your other units, in your hot ground.

One thing I will say is, "scrubbing the ground" is THE way to hunt an Explorer. They for some reason are KNOWN to "not like" an "air gap."

And, you are right, sensitivity TOO high can result in a LOSS of depth, especially in some mineralized ground. So, you have already figured that out -- that for your soil, 14-16 works best. GREAT JOB on that; that's the value of having coins buried in the type of ground you hunt in; it allows you to tune your machine most appropriately for your ground.

One other thing I will say, and that is that DEPTH is not the ONLY reason the Explorers do such a good job on silver; I might say it's not even the MAIN reason. There is just something about the way these things hit on silver, in the tone, and in the ID, and in the fact that there are fewer targets for the FBS machines that "mimic" silver than on a single freq. unit, such that once you begin to recognize how silver "sounds" and "acts" with your machine, you will find that you can really, really hone in on silver coins in a way that, at least for me, I have been unable to with any other unit I've tried. If you gave me an Explorer that sees a coin at 12" max, and another unit that sees the same coin at 13" max, I'd STILL take the Explorer; they are THAT GOOD -- if your hunting goals revolve around finding silver. If they DON'T; if you hunt for MANY things, including gold, and relics, and such, then an Explorer may not necessarily be THE best unit for those things (capable, for sure, but maybe not "top dog.") But, for SILVER specifically? Explorer or E-Trac is where it's at, IMO and in my experience. Period.

Finally, two things -- good headphones will help, but I don't think that would be the reason you aren't "hearing" a coin deeper -- especially if you have your gain set to 10. At 10, a deep coin will be as loud as a shallow coin, so I don't think your problem is your headphones (not that there aren't subtleties that you will be able to ascertain with better headphones, but I don't think they are the issue in this case). Second, I really feel that if I am right on the XS having only one "number" (a conductivity number), then an upgrade to an Ex. II or SE/SE Pro might be worth considering...as I find additional, good dig vs. no-dig info in that additional ID info, be it in digital mode, or in "smarfind" mode (the "matrix" screen). If you can get your hands on an Ex. II, SE or SE Pro, or E-Trac to test on your buried coin(s), see what you think...even if they are just a "bit" better on that deep coin, the CO/FE information on those units would be, I think, a really nice upgrade over the XS.

Just some thoughts.

Take care,

Steve

 

[stasys]

Wishy-Washy means... there is a quarter buried now for months at nearly 12 inches in my hot ground. My AT Pro with 11 DD coil, my CZ70 with 8 mono and GTP1350 with 10X7 mono all hit that coin hard at around 75% sensitivity. My Excalibur 1000 with 12X10 SEF still hits that coin even with sensitivity set at minimum! The XS with 12X10 SEF and in the Quick Start Mode does not hit the coin as well! I just get a chirp, unless I scrub the ground for a tone that changes. The other machines still hit the coin with coils several inches above the ground. I'm actually shocked how well the GTP/mono combo hits the coin! If I raise the XS coil at all, the coin is lost.

This is what frustrates me because my ground is difficult. 93 on ATP GB. I would have thought the XS would easily detect the coin better than the other machines? Why would I want to spend any time with the XS in the starter mode with results like this? I would be better off hunting with a 250! But when I experimented with advanced mode settings, the XS seemed to warm up. I found that XS actually lost depth with too much sensitivity! As long as other adjustments were made, sens could be run at 14-16 (and I do not know for sure what I'm doing adjustment wise) and the XS hit the coin with the coil above the ground. But still not as hard. I know 1 target does not tell the whole story, but even the GTP with mono coil seems to work better??? How can this be?

Yet as a BBS user and from what others here say, I just have to think the XS would out-perform the other machines. What's more surprising is that the high frequency ATP nails the coin the best (and it's much hotter on gold rings!)- so I started thinking perhaps single frequency detector technology has finally eclipsed FBS? Even the newer production 1350 hits the coin as hard as the famed CZ70!

Perhaps it's the phones I'm using- I do not have a good set for the XS? As an Excalibur user I'm comfortable with sound hunting. That's why I'm hoping the XS will shine for me. I just know if I can't get better performance from the XS, there is no way I would upgrade to a II or ETrack. I'll experiment some more, but with FBS one would think that would not have to be done much?

You have everything what you need to be successful. raise GAIN to max and use Manual sensitivity.

 

[seahunter34]

Thanks for all the help and good advice. As a water hunter I mainly use BBS Excaliburs and hunt for gold by sound. Excaliburs love gold Jewelry and have found quite a bit for me. Using a Sovereign or FBS detector on land should be a natural progression for me. I just find it difficult to believe the single frequency AT Pro and GTP1350 clearly hit harder on the buried quarter in hot ground? I thought that's where FBS shined? And I have to wonder if newer FBS machines are really that much better- like 10% if that? Keep in mind, I'm using a highly touted 12X10 SEF coil too.

I'm hoping out in the field things will be different and similar findings with FBS as when I use my Excaliburs. I have to say while the Excalibur is not the deepest water machine, for me it finds the most gold by far. This in spite of the fact that my Infinium goes deeper in the surf. BBS is more efficient and I find more with it. So as mentioned above perhaps in the field the XS will be more efficient and make more finds? For general land hunting I think I would prefer an Explorer to a Sovereign. My new AT Pro seems to be a hot easy to use machine and FBS will have to be better than it for me to use an Explorer.

I read so many confusing things and now wonder if I should get an Explorer II. Kind of makes sense that there could be real improvements over first generation XS. The bugs worked out with the II? Then I hear from some that further FBS improvements were actually detrimental to what FBS is all about... like trying to make the machine faster. I know for a fact with BBS Excaliburs, the newer machines are really not that much better and I now actually prefer the blue-tube Excals over the IIs. The newer IIs, might be a bit more sensitive but they do not find as much gold for me because they have lost some of their tonal range. That's why I started with a used XS, but now think I should perhaps at least have an Explorer II. I read some nice things about the IIs. Then some put down the SE and Etrac. But I simply do not know what the truth really is and if it's just not what users use being preferred? Some even say BBS is better than FBS, but I just have to think FBS over BBS.

I recall years ago when the Explorer was introduced I was shown the Explorer and Whites XLT side by side by a local dealer. They were out of my price range then, but when I asked the dealer who used both what the difference was, he said- the XLT finds more silver and the Explorer finds more gold. So I always thought Explorers liked gold coins and jewelry? As mainly a beach/water hunter, that's what I'm interested in- gold. But I want to also do more general land hunting and a possible first trip to England.

I'm just not ready to invest in an Etrac or even a newer SE. At least until I'm convinced FBS is the way for me to go. So, should I swap the XS for an Explorer II? I watched a video of a II responding to targets and it seemed to hit better than my XS. Thanks again, SH34

 

[seahunter34]

I really started tweaking things on my XS last night and am starting to get a grip on this detector. I'm liking it more and more and perhaps do not need to upgrade to a newer FBS version. I figured out that the XS is first a "sound machine"- no kidding... right? I was not paying attention to what all the sounds it were saying... to much power for my conditions! I made several adjustments but my XS really came alive with audio 1, and gain reduced to 5. I'm also liking ferrous response and iron mask wide open, with sensitivity adjusted for a smooth/steady threshold.

I found a cheap pair of headphones I forgot I had and can see headphones are a must with FBS and quality phones are called for. So set with other adjustments my XS hit targets much better with less chatter than before. Though still not as fast responding as my ATPro, I can see the XS provides far more target signature information. I can hear the alloys of a crown cap as compared to a coin or ring! I now realize for best performance the XS needs to be set up for site conditions, such as at a wide open beach, or trashy park. Obviously FBS is a learning process and offers tools for better results. This is in stark contrast with the newer hot single frequency machines that provide above average performance, nearly turn on and go! Hopefully FBS will find treasure they can't, because one has to get something for all all that FBS tweaking- right?

Which brings me to my original post question- which coil is best to learn on. I now feel better using the 12X10 SEF. Now if I could only digest better all the FBS stuff I'm reading on the net. It seems for every praise of FBS there is a bashing too! Some say FBS is good in iron and others say it's poor! And so on... This sometimes from guys with years of detecting experience! I'm not sure what to believe, but am starting to think the ones putting FBS down, simply can not grasp or are unwilling to tackle FBS concepts? Even my first reaction was... why do I have to fiddle with all these adjustments and what are all those noises, and why do I have to scrub the coil slowly and sometimes just wiggle it??? I now can see that 1 good hunt find makes it all worthwhile! I'm going to stick with FBS until I can say with certainty it finds more foe me, or it does not. If FBS is anything like BBS in sniffing out the good stuff, then I'm in for some good land/beach hunts!

 

[EtracTom-AdirondacksNY]

Well now your starting to catch on and get a handle on things. It's like driving with the high beams on in the fog it's too much. These machines are powerful. Yes you have to GO SLOWLY even with my AT-PRO I find more stuff when I GO SLOWLY on my sweep and keep the coil on the ground SLOWER IS WAY BETTER and I think we all aren't going slow enough. I just proved that to myself the other day with it yet again and now I'm taking 5-6 seconds or longer per sweep in each direction and really listening to the sounds these detectors are telling us. When I finally saw a video on Minelabs site of Desi Dune and how to adjust the sensitivity on my EX11 he swept it back and forth while lowering sensitivity down from the highest it can be set at till FOR THAT PARTICULAR AREA YOUR AT it is a smooth threshold without all those pops chirps clicks etc I ended up at around 10 or 11 or less but the machine was still going deep as that is what the soil conditions warranted for that spot.

We all seem to want to run any and all of our machines too hot for the site conditions thinking that is what is needed for max depth baloney!! It depends on so many things like EMI, wet or dry soil, sand or dirt, iron content of soil, minerals and hot rocks and cinders in the ground etc....... Have you ever seen or tried Bryce's the moderators settings. They will be hot you may have to work up to them. When I lowered my settings that is when I could tell a coin hit from all the noises it was making cause most all that noise stopped and the good sounds came right on through drove me nuts hearing all that chatter. That is why I sold my DFX.

NOW with all this said since your starting to understand and get a handle on the XS this is why I sold my EX11 the first time I got my hands on an E-TRAC cause it has AUTO SENSITIVITY and sets it for you and the programming is all up front and simple and intuitive and once I set a couple of things I read about in Andy Sabich's book on Explorers/ E-Trac's I haven't had to touch a thing now it's turn on and go and way, way, way, better and seems so simple that I understand now why I couldn't get a grasp on the EX11. You would be surprised once you try one and it can be swept a bit faster with it's quicker processor than the Explorer line and it's ground setting of difficult or normal and it's trash setting of normal or high that gives it some of it's see-through ability to distinguish a good target from a bad target from the other settings already factory programed in for you. It also has a coins, a beach, a relic, and I think high trash discrimination patterns all ready programed in for you and one push of one button to toggle back and forth between the discrimination pattern your using and the quick mask program so you can go to a wide open screen in one press to double check on real deepies or trashy signals. Try one out over your coin and you will be surprised.
Much more I could say but don't want to write a book here just trying to help out.

 

[CBAILEY IN GA]

haven't used an explorer xs yet (have one coming) but had an etrac and a explorer 2. also used a T2 F75 and tek 8000 and an f70

in my red clay the t2 and f75 couldn't hit a dime at 6 inches. explorer and etrac were better. To me, explorer 2 is just as good as etrac and i'm betting the xs will be just as good as the ex 2. depth to me isn't most important as sounds and id which explorer 2 is the best. if my detector can id dime at 6-8 in and quarter at 8-10 i am happy. Craig