O.K. I will admit I just got an X-terra ( about twnty hours of use now)cause I wanted to have a land machine after 15 years of only water hunting. I picked the X because having had major issues with minelab BBS systems ( Original SOV and Excaliber) reacting badly to electrical interference I picked the X over the Explorer BBS since I would be using it in the city, in buldozed areas, and old house lots and thought this was my best bet. I was right with the interference issue, have had little trouble with that, HOWEVER I am strting to have an issue with the disc. system giving a false high copper/ silver reading at around 38- 40 - 42 - 44 on the scale with some iron targets. Good clean Beeps, no Number Jumping, no threshold dropoff at all. Every indication of a good target, yet when dug (and dug and dug and dug!) you finally hit the target and it goes to -8 and nulls out. I seem to be getting 5 to ten of these every place I go with undisturbed soil. In bulldozed or disturbed areas this is much less of a problem and seems to be related to shape of the object in bulldozed areas, where with the other problem shape does not matter, happens with wire , nails ,square things, round things, etc. I have JUST started to experiment with lifting the coil a foot or so off the ground and I don't seem to hear any difference in the threshold and the numbers stay the same. So far I have not been able to figure out a 'fix' for this, and was wondering if anyone else has figured out something to weed these things out so you don't have to dig BIG holes just to find out it is a junk target. My Excaliber, on the couple of targets I tried, nulled right out, but the X-Terra says #44! Dig silver here! Any solutions?
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X-Terra Mistakes Iron for Silver I.D. at 44 any solution?
- Thread starter pb-to-au
- Start date
I don't have an answer for you since I'm still so new to the X-Terra 70, but I'm sure Digger will be able to help. He is about the most knowledgeable person on the X-Terra's that I know of.
My only guesses would be:
1. Perhaps too much sensitivity?
2. Not passing over the center of the target?
3. Sweep the target from a different direction to see if it moves?
4. Consistency in the tone, and ID?
Again, just some guesses. Digger should be able to help.
OldeTymer
My only guesses would be:
1. Perhaps too much sensitivity?
2. Not passing over the center of the target?
3. Sweep the target from a different direction to see if it moves?
4. Consistency in the tone, and ID?
Again, just some guesses. Digger should be able to help.
OldeTymer
Nope, none of the above. Four way beeps, clean audio, no falsing or audio indication of anything but a big fat silver coin! Run sens at 25 to 28 most places no problem. Always use startup sequence as follows : turn on, ground balance, run noise cancel, go to all metal and reground balance, go to track G B and hunt. Hunting in factory program #1 with nothing notched out.
I think I read somewhere that the noise cancel should be run as the first thing. I believe that Digger has suggested setting the sensitivity to a single digit during the ground balance procedure, and then bumping it up afterward. Have you tried fixed GB instead of tracking? Again, just guesses on my part. I'll be glad when I can get out with mine.
Please keep us posted on your progress with this issue, or lack thereof.
OldeTymer
Please keep us posted on your progress with this issue, or lack thereof.
OldeTymer
BarnacleBill
New member
From your sens setting it looks like ur using an X70.
1. I would run with GB tracking on.
2. Use an edge pass technique where you approach the target with the edge of the coil to see if it changes.
3. Go to prospecting mode and set IM to 20.
A. Size & shape the target.
B. Centered over the target, do short quick sweeps to see if it will null.
HH
BarnacleBill
1. I would run with GB tracking on.
2. Use an edge pass technique where you approach the target with the edge of the coil to see if it changes.
3. Go to prospecting mode and set IM to 20.
A. Size & shape the target.
B. Centered over the target, do short quick sweeps to see if it will null.
HH
BarnacleBill
You are obviously using the X-70. I don't know that it will make any difference, but I don't use the same start up procedure you use. You say that you turn on, ground balance, run noise cancel, go to all metal and reground balance, go to track G B and hunt. Hunting in factory program #1 with nothing notched out. Personally, the first thing I do is set the Noise Cancel. I figure that the ground nor any of the other settings should have an effect on how my detector reacts to electrical interference. And, I let the Auto Noise Cancel do it for me. Make sure you are holding the coil horizontal to the ground when you set the Noise Cancel. Once it is set, then I lower the sensitivity to single digits. Again, my reasoning is that I do not want to overpower the detector and create a signal "bouncing back" when I am attempting to GB. Once the sensitivity is lowered, I then set the GB. I use the all metal mode to do that, simply to be sure that there is not a piece of ferrous metal under the coil when I GB. I use the Auto GB procedure to set the ground balance and then check it by tweaking it manually. My intent is to find a precise setting where the high tone and low tone are blended equally. After I have set the GB, I raise the sensitivity to a point that my X-70 still operates at a stable level. I don't mind if it chirps a little bit if I happen to raise my coil when I pass over a clod or bump a weed. But I don't want it so hot that it chatters all the time. When it does that, I know that I am overpowering the unit and although it is probably very sensitive to small targets, it is probably having an adverse effect on my depth of detection.
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you were hunting in Program #1 with nothing notched out. I can only guess that you mean you are in Pattern 1? And, you didn't mention how many audio tones you were using. I typically hunt in the all metal mode and use 4 tones. I prefer this as it allows me to simply ignore all the (ferrous) low tones and concentrate on the other three. With that said, lets think about how the discrimination scale is set up. Most guys think of it as a straight line, running from the most ferrous up to the most conductive. In other words, for a coin shooter, from the nastiest iron to the purest silver. I prefer to think of the discrimination scale as circular. Kind of like the markings on a compass. With you thinking in those terms, let me ask you where North is? Is it at 0 degrees or at 360 degrees? Actually, it is both. On a compass, 0 degrees and 360 degrees are the same. And, I believe that on most metal detector discrimination circuits, the nastiest iron is setting right there beside the purest silver. Our job is to separate the two items with what ever means we have. As you have pointed out, visual TID is not doing that by itself. And, I would agree that it won't always tell the difference between the nastiest ferrous and the purest conductive targets. So, we have to use our other tools. One is the audio tone. I have found that when I raise the coil several inches, and S L O W L Y sweep the coil over the target, I can make a ferrous target give me the low tone. If you are familiar with the Sovereign Wiggle, it is about the same procedure. The easiest way for me to do this is to first, pinpoint the center of the target. I don't use the pinpoint mode. I prefer to user the Prospecting mode. Not only does it provide exact pinpointing capabilities. But it also allows me to determine the approximate size of the target. Start out with the coil 6 or 8 inches above the suspected target and sweep across it from several directions. Continue sweeping back and forth, lowering the coil on each approach. Make a mental note of where the exact target location is. Once you get the coil near the surface, if it sounds bigger than a coin, it probably is. If it is a small target, it is worth investigating further. Switch back to the hunt mode, still in all metal. If you can sweep the coil over the target, and the exact target center is the same location where you found it in the Prospecting mode, keep investigating. If it is in a different location than it was in Prospecting mode, it isn't a coin. If the audio sound is mixed with two or more of the four tones, it isn't a coin. If the TID numbers bounce more than two notch segments, it probably isn't a coin.
During the past few weeks, we have had several inches of rain. Many of the old fields I have been hunting are littered with old harness rings and nails. I have been able to identify the nails with the procedures outlined above. But I have to admit, I have dug a couple dozen DEEP iron rings. Interesting to note that, once I have taken off a couple inches of dirt, even if the target has not been exposed, iron will now provide that low tone. Coins will continue to provide the higher tones. If the target location remains consistent.... and the audio remains consistent...... and the TID remains consistent...... and the target sizing indicates a coin sized target, I would be digging them too! Guess it just goes to prove that the only way we ever know for sure it to dig them up! But, I think you will find that the methods I have described will eliminate most of your problems. HH Randy
I'm not sure what you mean when you say you were hunting in Program #1 with nothing notched out. I can only guess that you mean you are in Pattern 1? And, you didn't mention how many audio tones you were using. I typically hunt in the all metal mode and use 4 tones. I prefer this as it allows me to simply ignore all the (ferrous) low tones and concentrate on the other three. With that said, lets think about how the discrimination scale is set up. Most guys think of it as a straight line, running from the most ferrous up to the most conductive. In other words, for a coin shooter, from the nastiest iron to the purest silver. I prefer to think of the discrimination scale as circular. Kind of like the markings on a compass. With you thinking in those terms, let me ask you where North is? Is it at 0 degrees or at 360 degrees? Actually, it is both. On a compass, 0 degrees and 360 degrees are the same. And, I believe that on most metal detector discrimination circuits, the nastiest iron is setting right there beside the purest silver. Our job is to separate the two items with what ever means we have. As you have pointed out, visual TID is not doing that by itself. And, I would agree that it won't always tell the difference between the nastiest ferrous and the purest conductive targets. So, we have to use our other tools. One is the audio tone. I have found that when I raise the coil several inches, and S L O W L Y sweep the coil over the target, I can make a ferrous target give me the low tone. If you are familiar with the Sovereign Wiggle, it is about the same procedure. The easiest way for me to do this is to first, pinpoint the center of the target. I don't use the pinpoint mode. I prefer to user the Prospecting mode. Not only does it provide exact pinpointing capabilities. But it also allows me to determine the approximate size of the target. Start out with the coil 6 or 8 inches above the suspected target and sweep across it from several directions. Continue sweeping back and forth, lowering the coil on each approach. Make a mental note of where the exact target location is. Once you get the coil near the surface, if it sounds bigger than a coin, it probably is. If it is a small target, it is worth investigating further. Switch back to the hunt mode, still in all metal. If you can sweep the coil over the target, and the exact target center is the same location where you found it in the Prospecting mode, keep investigating. If it is in a different location than it was in Prospecting mode, it isn't a coin. If the audio sound is mixed with two or more of the four tones, it isn't a coin. If the TID numbers bounce more than two notch segments, it probably isn't a coin.
During the past few weeks, we have had several inches of rain. Many of the old fields I have been hunting are littered with old harness rings and nails. I have been able to identify the nails with the procedures outlined above. But I have to admit, I have dug a couple dozen DEEP iron rings. Interesting to note that, once I have taken off a couple inches of dirt, even if the target has not been exposed, iron will now provide that low tone. Coins will continue to provide the higher tones. If the target location remains consistent.... and the audio remains consistent...... and the TID remains consistent...... and the target sizing indicates a coin sized target, I would be digging them too! Guess it just goes to prove that the only way we ever know for sure it to dig them up! But, I think you will find that the methods I have described will eliminate most of your problems. HH Randy
Thanks Digger! This has been a Very Useful reply! I start using the 70 this fall and have had good luck with it, using mostly the M coil and switching to the H coil at times. Have you had luck with the L coil?...
Sorry if I missed a different posting on this subject... Let me/us know on your different coil findings... Anyone else have any experience with the 3 coils?
I want to practice now that we have snow/ice to contend with here in Canada!
Thanks to the other posts as well... New tricks for any unit are always welcome! Best of the Season to all....
Sorry if I missed a different posting on this subject... Let me/us know on your different coil findings... Anyone else have any experience with the 3 coils?
I want to practice now that we have snow/ice to contend with here in Canada!
Thanks to the other posts as well... New tricks for any unit are always welcome! Best of the Season to all....
Jackpine Savage
Active member
run in fixed GB but drop it down a couple numbers from the true balance point. It seemed to help me a bit in a cornfield where I having the same problem.
Tom.
Tom.
jeff & Maria
Active member
n/t
Thanks. Will be trying the info here to see if any help with the issue. I have already been using the target size info you related, but damn I hate to leave ANY target that sounds that good! I don't have a lot of military breastplates buried around here, but you can be sure I would not be using any target size rejection methods if there were! I really hate to leave anything showing those numbers and sounding that crisp! My major problem with these is the total lack of threshold dropoff as you cross the target, usually nearly foolproof way to leave this junk behind no matter what your meter and audio says. If it nulls the threshold, leave it I say! No such luck with these targets, threshold stays right across the target. I guess I will have to do some experimentation with what ever suggestions I get to see if this problem can be made less of an issue.I just think if my BBS Excaliber machine can tell it is junk, what the heck is wrong with the X-terra that it falls down that badly on what should be a fairly straightforward target?
Tried Both tracking and fixed. Problem seems a tad worse in track GB. Can knock out a few with a fast "chop" swing past the offending target, but not enough! I will have to try Prospecting mode more to see what happens. I admit I only tried that trick a couple of times because of the large volume of trash and nails in these old 18th century houselots. Trash is one of the reasons I picked the X-terra over the Explorer, thought it would be a better machine in bad trash and bulldozed houselots.
Don't think noise cancel makes any difference. Will try reverse of my usuall routine just to see. I usually GB several times in the course of an outing, whether I use track GB or not. Old habits die hard, I was a GB junkie years ago, that was the most used knob on my machines back then.( Back then machines had six to ten knobs!)
BarnacleBill
New member
If you are working in thick trash then the 18.75kHz elliptical coil is the way to go until a smaller coil comes out. Being a DD will help with masking.
HH
BarnacleBill
HH
BarnacleBill
Jackpine Savage
Active member
its worth a shot too. According to the manual the preset GB on the 70 is 27. Push the GB button and then use the arrow key to set the GB to that number. When hunting in iron with the tracking on if you punch the GB button you will see lots of high numbers bouncing around. I assume that is from all the iron. Maybe simply locking it at the preset will help? 
Tom
Tom
which will provide the best separation, and will also have less of a challenge with ground mineralization. Once we have a decent smaller size coil, which I would like to see in concentric form and operating at 7.5 kHz, the reports from those working such sites ought to improve significantly. There should also be fewer complaints, too.
I prefer, most of the time, to NOT to use the autotracking function >>> especially when hunting such littered sites.
As for the 'wrapping' of some targets, such as iron-based objects 'reading' at 48 and such, this can be caused by several things you have control over, such as the Ground Balance and acceptance or rejection of that notch segment, or search coil selection.
Unfortunatly, you do not have any control over how a particular model is designed to function. Some makes and models handle 'bad ground' better than others, and some handle the discrimination process a little different from others.
I prefer, most of the time, to NOT to use the autotracking function >>> especially when hunting such littered sites.
As for the 'wrapping' of some targets, such as iron-based objects 'reading' at 48 and such, this can be caused by several things you have control over, such as the Ground Balance and acceptance or rejection of that notch segment, or search coil selection.
Unfortunatly, you do not have any control over how a particular model is designed to function. Some makes and models handle 'bad ground' better than others, and some handle the discrimination process a little different from others.
Yes, Rich, Minelab is supposedly working on one for release in late Spring, or early Summer. I hope it's the former. I guess folks are upset because Minelab promised one last Spring, but didn't deliver. There are many reasons why that might be, but it's only speculation on everyone's part.
Good hunting,
OldeTymer
Good hunting,
OldeTymer
Not seeing mistakes at the Hot Rock (4
numbers, that would be great cause you could notch them out if audio I.D. failed to respond in a manner that allowed you to tell the target was iron. Most, if not all, are coming in at 42 or 44, same number as large silver coins such as 1/2 dollars.I am going to try a number of the suggestions I am getting to see if any are workable, but the weather just turned cold and the ground is set to freeze up for three months! I am also curious as to whether this issue remains when using a DD loop. I only have the DD 18.75 k (which I have not tried yet) but plan on having a full set of DD coils come spring. Another thing I just remembered from my old days is pumping the coil straight up and down on the target rapidly, sometimes this would cause the target to respond correctly as iron with the old analog machines, where a pass or swing would still indicate a decent target. Still puzzled by the lack of a threshold null on these targets, very annoying as that is usually a very effective trash I.D. Another thing I have not tried is Ground Balancing directly over the target to see what happens. Has to be a way to I.D. these quickly. By the way, in All Metal, I am getting 10 to 20 targets on each swing in many of the places I have been going, so running in all mateal is a little ear annoying, plus it is a drain on the batteries.
numbers, that would be great cause you could notch them out if audio I.D. failed to respond in a manner that allowed you to tell the target was iron. Most, if not all, are coming in at 42 or 44, same number as large silver coins such as 1/2 dollars.I am going to try a number of the suggestions I am getting to see if any are workable, but the weather just turned cold and the ground is set to freeze up for three months! I am also curious as to whether this issue remains when using a DD loop. I only have the DD 18.75 k (which I have not tried yet) but plan on having a full set of DD coils come spring. Another thing I just remembered from my old days is pumping the coil straight up and down on the target rapidly, sometimes this would cause the target to respond correctly as iron with the old analog machines, where a pass or swing would still indicate a decent target. Still puzzled by the lack of a threshold null on these targets, very annoying as that is usually a very effective trash I.D. Another thing I have not tried is Ground Balancing directly over the target to see what happens. Has to be a way to I.D. these quickly. By the way, in All Metal, I am getting 10 to 20 targets on each swing in many of the places I have been going, so running in all mateal is a little ear annoying, plus it is a drain on the batteries.