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X-terra 50 at the beach

SSUMAX

New member
Hi all, I took my X50 to the sandy beach today and it was impossible to use even at the lowest sensitivity setting.

Trying to ground balance was useless as the tone was the same at any setting/height. The X50 has the GB range of 0-20 and I assumed 0 would be the best for wet salty sand.. was this the right choice or would going to full positive/20 be better?
 
Honestly, if the beach is highly mineralized, you aren't going to have much luck ground balancing the X-50. If you lowered the Sensitivity way down and it was still noisy, the only other option I can think of would be to run with a lot of discrimination, in an effort to "null out" the beach mineralization. JMHO HH Randy

From the owner's manual: When detecting on the beach, adjusting ground balance may not give significant improvements. Try adjusting sensitivity and altering patterns for best results.
 
My question should have been "is wet salt sand positive or negative?" (on average, ballpark, if I add salt water to a bucket of sand)

I know the X50 will never be great/useable on the wet sand beach but I'm trying to get the best results possible with the limited GB range of 0-20.
 
The lower the number the more you're compensating. So lower should be better.
 
SSUMAX said:
So wet salt sand is classed more negative?

I believe salts are conductive so its probably more considered positive.
 
Neil said:
SSUMAX said:
So wet salt sand is classed more negative?

I believe salts are conductive so its probably more considered positive.
Not in terms of the phase shift required to compensate. The machine can measure the difference between magnetic and conductive minerals, but the method of compensating for them is the same.
 
Old Longhair said:
Neil said:
SSUMAX said:
So wet salt sand is classed more negative?

I believe salts are conductive so its probably more considered positive.
Not in terms of the phase shift required to compensate. The machine can measure the difference between magnetic and conductive minerals, but the method of compensating for them is the same.

No disrespect Old Longhair but I have no idea what your talking about. I don't even know what a phase shift is:surrender:
Ive spent most of my hunting time on beaches and using Sovs when they first came out up thru the Etrac I have now so I never had to ground balance as those machines adjust automatically. I have read that salts are conductive and Ive no idea how that relates to the phase shift your talking about.
I know from using my T2 at the beach I had to drop the ground balance down to the lowest numbers around 2 or 4 if I remember correctly, that's in the wet sand. It worked there, got decent depth. I would imagine using the 705 I would do the same, unless the ground balance numbers work in reverse compared to my T2.
 
SSUMAX said:
Neil said:
SSUMAX said:
So wet salt sand is classed more negative?

I believe salts are conductive so its probably more considered positive.
So I would set my GB positive to match this (or at least get closer)?

It should be easy enough to tell once you start ground balancing, how does it sound? The sound you hear when you lower the coil (sound increases) should decrease as you lower your ground balance numbers. If that doesn't do it, try increasing your numbers, the sound is gonna tell you if its working. I don't know about matching or the stuff Old Longhair was talking about.

I would make sure your coil is not touching the ground or waves for best results, at least that's how it is on my T2.

I apologize if I have confused you, basically how you ground balance anywhere, apply that to the beach.
 
Neil said:
It should be easy enough to tell once you start ground balancing, how does it sound?.

That's the problem, the Minelab doesn't get close enough on the balance to change tone whilst bobbing up/down. But now I know wet sand salt is conductive/positive I'll set my GB to full positive to get closer to the true balance. Does this sound logical? This along with a low sensitivity should allow me to detect.. even if it's only an inch deep.
 
Regarding Phase Shift.......Detector coils are comprised of transmit windings and receive windings. The transmit portion sends an electronic signal into the earth. When that signal crosses paths with a metallic object, that metallic object creates it's own electronic signal (opposite polarity) which is "picked up" by the receive portion of the coil. The signal coming back to the receive windings is delayed, in comparison to the signal that was transmitted. This delay is caused by resistance (opposition to current flow) and inductance (opposition to the change of current flow) and is called a phase shift. Any object, including the ground itself, that gets involved with the transmit and receive coils provides its own phase shift. And through demodulation, the X-TERRA identifies these objects based on their phase shift(s).

The signal induced in the receive coil, by the magnetic field of the eddy current, can be thought of as being comprised of two simultaneous components. One component is the same shape as the transmit signal. This is called the reactive signal (“X”). Because it is the same shape as the transmit field, the signal responds immediately to what ever the transmit signal is doing. When this X component is subtracted from the eddy current induced signal in the receive coil, the shape of the remaining signal depends only upon the history of the transmitted field, and not the instantaneous value. This signal is called the resistive or loss component (“R”). In order to determine if a target is ferrous or non-ferrous, metal detectors measure the “X” signal. Ferrous targets produce positive (+X) signals and non-ferrous targets negative (-X) signals. Unfortunately, the signals from mineralized soils also produce large positive (+X) signals. This obviously causes a major problem, as the soil signal interferes with target ferrous/non-ferrous measurements, especially because the strength of signal from the soil is often much larger than the target signals. Basically, the target signal must be more distinctive than the mineralization signal in order to determine accurately its properties,particularly the ferrous/non-ferrous nature of the target. The closer the target is to the detector coil, the stronger the target signal. So in mineralized soils, only targets not buried too deeply may be accurately discriminated. The sensitivity to discriminating targets (how deeply a target may be detected) is controlled by the Sensitivity control. Therefore, in mineralized soils, the sensitivity control must be made less sensitive in order to avoid false discrimination.

I haven't ran numbers on the X-50. But here is a post I made four years ago regarding phase shift on the 705:
The number on the display when you ground balance is actually a numeric representation of the phase angle of the ground. That is why I refer to it as the ground phase number, not the ground balance number. Ground phase does not tell us how strong the mineralization is. But it does tell us if it is more magnetic in one area than another. (smaller ground phase numbers are indicative of more magnetic soil conditions and larger ground phase number are typical of less magnetic soil.) Regardless, when you properly set the ground balance on the 705, you are electronically adjusting what the detector interprets as the phase angle of the ground. The parameters of the ground phase adjustments on the 705 are: 0 = -1 degree .................. 90 = +9 degrees. So in your example, when you are able to ground balance your 705 with a ground phase reading on or around 20, your detector has determined that the ground at that specific location requires a "phase shift"" of approximately +1 degree, to allow your detector to "compensate" for the phase angle of that soil. If you don't properly ground balance your detector, TID numbers become skewed and you can actually end up getting an audio response from the soil itself.
 
Thanks, I never knew the X-terra was displaying Phase and not balance numbers. I'm still clueless as to go to 0 or 20 on my ground control for the wet salty sand as I said the tone stays the same throughout the range.
 
No problem. Here is the link to an interesting post Barnacle Bill made regarding ground mineralization back in 2007. http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,574329,574329#msg-574329
 
SSUMAX said:
Thanks, I never knew the X-terra was displaying Phase and not balance numbers. I'm still clueless as to go to 0 or 20 on my ground control for the wet salty sand as I said the tone stays the same throughout the range.

I must have missed that part of your post, that the tones stays the same regardless of where you set it. I would try a low number, bury a nickel a few inches and see how it responds. Then try a high number and see how it responds. Should be easy enough to figure out what works best for you with a little trial and error.

If you've got the money I would highly recommend an Etrac or Explorer for the wet sand, you don't really have to make adjustments, even sens can be run high in wet sand and its butter smooth performance. Plus they have adjustable iron mask, something a Sov or Excal does not offer.

HH
Neil
 
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