Wondering...You 6000 Pro XL Guys Ever Think Of Replacing Analog Volt Meter With Digital One For Faster VDI Response?

[Critterhunter]

At least with the Sovereign the meter is simply measuring the voltage output the machine processes of the conductivity and sends out on a 2V scale. That's why you can use either an analog or a digital meter on the Sovereign. I would suspect the 6000, as with many analog machines I would think, is just outputting a representation of the conductivity of the processed target so the analog meter can show the measurement (IE: ID). That's really all target ID is on a machine- a measurement of the target's conductivity. Higher conductivity= higher voltage/higher VDI #.

So, unless the 6000 has some funky electronics as part of the analog meter to make it work, I'd suspect it's just a analog volt meter that is being sent a certain voltage scale to display that the meter has been calibrated for. If that's the case, then a digital volt meter, which is cheap by the way, should give you a instant target response since there is no needle lag. I would think that would give you much better target separation/ID ability in heavy trash. I've owned two 6000's and about the only thing I didn't like on that awesome machine was the lack of tone alerts and the lag time of the needle. I know there are tone mods for the 6000, which should make it an even more outstanding machine for working trash, and if a digital meter is possible I'd think that would also do wonders as well for working heavy trash.

 

[Steve(MS)]

Hmm, I think that was what XLT series did, along with other Whites models.
It may not be a simple voltage output like the Sov however.
The Sov is a unique beast where a voltage meter will work.
Detectors in general work on a "x" and "r" or whatever the George Payne designation was.
It takes ratios and comparing them in a circuit then outputting a scale of conductivity.


Yet since the Pro already has a meter, perhaps a volt meter could be used....it would be purely an experiment that only
some detector EE would know the answer to.
If the volt meter added its own current, it may fry something....I wouldn't do it without input from more knowledgeable.
The meter reading output may be an ohm reading instead?

Also, I suspect these circuits are doing some form of rms so that a reading will be normalized...to take out wild readings away from a primary reading.
So one may end up with a Whites "digital" meter...with all kinds of numbers going by quickly.
Actually the Whites digital meters may be considered more accurate and less segmented than the Pro...pure conjecture on my part.

For one, I really liked the Pro meter and felt it was about as accurate as one can get without cluster of numbers speeding by in nano-seconds.
There are plenty of old timers that feel that way also and dislike the more modern digital meters yet there are many more variables that come into
play since most modern detectors shifted upwards to higher operating freq, change of filtering, etc.
The Pro's meter is just plain rock steady...unlike the digital versions.

Of course my reply is largely an unqualified one since I don't know jack about detector electronics so if you are serious then post over on
geotech forum where the world community of home grown detector mods hang out, Carl may be there and would be the perfect one to answer this one.

I kinda understand though your curiosity in this because perhaps you prefer the lower operating frequency detector models in some situations.
....Along with the "old" filtering they do.
There are times when I wish I had the 6000 Di Pro SL back I sold many years ago because it was so stable running especially in iron...
yet it being quieter...because of the filtering caused it to be more susceptible to masking.
One must pick his poison, I suppose, a quiet machine with some masking or noisy one that has a better chance of finding that one item in trash....along with digging more trash too!

Here's a more challenging one for you to research, why can't a meter be added to a meter-less unit.
I have the answer...sort of....a circuit must to made to accomplish this(so more than likely the Sov. is unique).
I asked about that some years back....had high notions of adding one to say a ML Musky...or a Tejon or a Vaquero.

Problem we all see that have been around for a while is no detector has all the qualities we are looking for rolled up into one.

 

[Critterhunter]

The Sovereign IC chip(s) process the target signal and then output a audio response and also a separate 2V scale for target conductivity ID. It's not a matter of just hooking up a meter to a detector that doesn't have one. It must be built to generate an output voltage for the meter to read. Since obviously the 6000 has such a circuit, I'm wondering if it's a simple voltage output that a simple analog meter is reading, or if in fact the meter has some internal electronics to interface with what the detector is doing in some more substantial way.

As to the stability of meters...Volt meters themselfs can have that kind of stability circuit in them. They'll grab and hold onto a given voltage for at least a tiny bit of instability changes in voltage (which takes less than a second to decide to change or stay with the current #, so you don't see any lag). Some meters are just simple "what I see is what I show", but other volt meters as said will attempt to ignore split second changes in voltage and stick with the strongest one until they see enough of a constant change. While I haven't had the Digisearch meter apart on my GT to see, I suspect it's doing this. Don't get me wrong, this meter is very "instant" in that what you hear you instantly see a VDI # for, due to not being sent through layers of complex software processing before it's outputed to the meter, but just the same the # will "stick" despite slight changes in target response. The reaction between targets is still lightning fast so a digital meter on the Sovereign greatly improves unmasking ability, but it's not so quirky that the # is bouncing 10 times per second, if you know what I mean.

 

[tvr]

I've got an XL Pro and the thought of changing the meter never crosses my mind. The meter points to the identified conductivity as quickly as the digital display ID units I've used. It is easy to read and can easily differentiate a 28 to 29 nickle reading from a 30 or 31 that a broken tab gives. Only reason I'd change up the meter would be as part of a major weight reduction effort and, even then, I'm not so sure I'd pull the meter. Then again, I also prefer analog gauges on my car.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[Steve(MS)]

Ah, you found the sweet spot for nickels.
My readings for almost sure targets for nickels were from 24 to 28.
I have a strange feeling that some nickels will read 30 if they don't have much corrosion on them.
Yet digging the 30 will yield untold numbers of pulltabs if they are present.
Corrosion cause cause nickels to read some under the 24 also.
Perhaps a digital meter would allow for finer readings.

I read somewhere that Whites couldn't find a supplier for the analog meters later on...or they were too high priced...maybe both.
I am curious if Carl could/ would answer the question about changing out to a volt meter.
Personally, I would leave it as it is unless the meter goes out and one wants to experiment.
I can't think of a way to reduce the weight very much, Whites units while heavier compared to some lightweight units today are well balanced.

 

[jimmie]

The Pro XL needle is more stable than a bouncing digital meter.

 

[TC-NM]

Now why would do that? Just go out and purchase an XLT. Its comparable to the 6000 Pro XL, same freq. (6.592 kHz.) but more bling. I agree with jimmie and stability.

Long live the 6000's!!!!

TC-NM