Can someone explain why a 3-3/4 turn gb knob is so damn touchy? This is annoying as hell. Just tried to gb after swapping coils on the Outlaw and was reminded of how touchy the gb is so I just had to vent. You would think having 1,350 degrees of adjustment on a knob that the whole adjustment happens within 30 degrees left or right. Ahhhrggg Tesoro!!!
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Why sooooo Touchy?
- Thread starter Idxpro
- Start date
kaolinwasher
Well-known member
Idx you are right about that , I dont like it ether , when adjusting it eather goes one way or the other , if the ground is mild I have no problem but the more minerals the worse it gets so i have to pick eather positive or negitiveGB to bad its not a 10 turn , but i get by just a minor annoyance
Tell me about it. If my math is correct, (3.75 x 360 degrees =1,350) degrees of adjustment. Am I correct as to how this works? I'm no engineer but believe i'm correct. Witht that said, is this a goof on Tesoro that the difference between pos and neg would be such a miniscule touch of the dial? Something just can't be right
Hey Fred,
The wife and I got to experience the mineralized soil that Monte is always talking about, we took a flight to Oregon last year along with my
10 turn GB Pantera. We visited some friends there and did some detecting around Baker City. It was milder ground than what Monte talks about.
Then we drove to the Pacific coast at Seaside beach, I could only move the GB a few degrees and it would go from negative to positive.
And this is with a 10 turn GB. We did'nt find anything valuable at the beach, the Pantera surprised me with an 8" crusty quarter in the wet salt sand.
It had been there for a while.
The wife and I got to experience the mineralized soil that Monte is always talking about, we took a flight to Oregon last year along with my
10 turn GB Pantera. We visited some friends there and did some detecting around Baker City. It was milder ground than what Monte talks about.
Then we drove to the Pacific coast at Seaside beach, I could only move the GB a few degrees and it would go from negative to positive.
And this is with a 10 turn GB. We did'nt find anything valuable at the beach, the Pantera surprised me with an 8" crusty quarter in the wet salt sand.
It had been there for a while.
When I talked to Rusty at Tesoro, he brought up the 3 1/2 turn pot. I believe he said cost constraints prevent them from putting in the 10 turn. I don't remember if he brought up size issues. Never paid any attention to if there is much of a difference in the two.
He also brought up the notion that GB from one place to the next will not change that much. ie: if you set GB in Arizona then are able to lock the knob in place and fly to Australia, you would not need to make much of an adjustment. He also told me that pumping the coil up and down and listening for a rise or lowering of sound was the wrong way to GB. Never mind that the owners manual tells you to do it that way. I like Rusty, but at that point I got somewhat confused by what he said and can't remember how he said to do it correctly.
Before anybody blasts me for this post, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just repeating pretty much what Rusty said. Want to know exactly? Call him, he's always happy to talk to us.
He also brought up the notion that GB from one place to the next will not change that much. ie: if you set GB in Arizona then are able to lock the knob in place and fly to Australia, you would not need to make much of an adjustment. He also told me that pumping the coil up and down and listening for a rise or lowering of sound was the wrong way to GB. Never mind that the owners manual tells you to do it that way. I like Rusty, but at that point I got somewhat confused by what he said and can't remember how he said to do it correctly.
Before anybody blasts me for this post, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just repeating pretty much what Rusty said. Want to know exactly? Call him, he's always happy to talk to us.
That is very interesting Bill. Man I wish I knew the rest of that story. Just when I do the whole pump the coil thing and think I have it right, if I power balance, i'm not even close. Not that I mess with it often from site to site, but then makes me wonder if it's off more than I think.
BarberBill
New member
Idxpro's statement reminds me of a thought I've had occasionaly. On detectors with true auto ground tracking and no external adustment, how do we know that it's accurate? I'm sure if it were way out of the range performance would show somethings not right, but off a little - who knows?
On another note, I've held the coil a few inches above the gound, stable not pumping, and adjusted the GB knob and it seemed to work okay.
BB
On another note, I've held the coil a few inches above the gound, stable not pumping, and adjusted the GB knob and it seemed to work okay.
BB
I am not completely convinced that minor differences in GB make any difference. Fixed GB machines like the Compadre do well in every state of this country and even overseas.
I make huge changes in GB on my current main use detector and honestly, I don't see any difference in how it detects.
I wish I could remember exactly what Rusty said, but I think it was along the lines of lowering the detector and adjusting for neutral if it sounds off on the down stroke, ignore what it does when you raise it.
I say follow the instructions or 53silvers videos and don't worry about it. Get out and enjoy. Just because you haven't been finding tons of old coins doesn't mean it won't, it just means you haven't found them yet.
Have fun and good hunting!
I make huge changes in GB on my current main use detector and honestly, I don't see any difference in how it detects.
I wish I could remember exactly what Rusty said, but I think it was along the lines of lowering the detector and adjusting for neutral if it sounds off on the down stroke, ignore what it does when you raise it.
I say follow the instructions or 53silvers videos and don't worry about it. Get out and enjoy. Just because you haven't been finding tons of old coins doesn't mean it won't, it just means you haven't found them yet.
Have fun and good hunting!
Doggone it, got off topic. IDX, you're right. The 3 1/2 turn GB pot is a real pain, only takes a slight bump to put you way off at your next site.
Some of the guys have talked about putting orings under the knob.
On my Harley, the push button for my gas tank buzzes and drives me crazy. I take a rubber band that comes on the newspaper and wrap it around the button. Stops the buzz. Maybe you could try that around the knob, keep it from moving that little bit in transport?
Some of the guys have talked about putting orings under the knob.
On my Harley, the push button for my gas tank buzzes and drives me crazy. I take a rubber band that comes on the newspaper and wrap it around the button. Stops the buzz. Maybe you could try that around the knob, keep it from moving that little bit in transport?
Sven
Well-known member
A 10 turn pots fi into the umax detectors. But, since the pot is larger, it can only be put in one spot.
It's an added expense for Tesoro to then move the pinpoint toggle to the handle. 10 turn pot probably cheaper
than the 3 3/4 turn pot as the 3 3/4 turn pot are not an on the shelf stocked item by most electronics parts suppliers.
.
It's an added expense for Tesoro to then move the pinpoint toggle to the handle. 10 turn pot probably cheaper
than the 3 3/4 turn pot as the 3 3/4 turn pot are not an on the shelf stocked item by most electronics parts suppliers.
.
BarberBill said:
Hey Bill, Ive been talking to a guy who uses a few machines that have auto GB tracking, He states that there is no way a manual GB adjustment can be more accurate than the auto because the auto program makes a more "fine" adjustment than the manual adjustments in his machine ( I think it was a minelab, but cant recall for certain). He said its like having one knob with 10 settings (the manual GB) versus another knob with one hundred settings (the auto). If the true balance occurs at "54.6", the manual GB can only get as close as 54 or 55, while the auto can peg it 54.6. As long as the circuitry and program is working correctly, auto GB should be more accurate in every case. Does that make any sense? Im not savvy at electronics so cant explain it further, but what he said made sense to me.
Mojo, I know your post was directed to BB, but my opinion is, does that little increment really make a difference? I don't think so. I think we spend way too much time fretting over something so minor that we forget to enjoy the hobby. I have played with GB and not noticed any great losses. In my area. And we have some pretty mineralized soil in Washington.
Auto GB is great, use it all the time, but I also know what the GB numbers usually are for my area and when I get in those trashy areas I just set it to those numbers. Manual GB without a meter is extremely frustrating in those areas, that's a change I wish Tesoro could make.
Auto GB is great, use it all the time, but I also know what the GB numbers usually are for my area and when I get in those trashy areas I just set it to those numbers. Manual GB without a meter is extremely frustrating in those areas, that's a change I wish Tesoro could make.
Good point Bill. I have no idea how much of a difference those incremental differences make.However, I read many posts about what happens if you are "too positive" or "too negative" with your manual GB settings, how touchy some of those knobs can be, and how easy they sometimes are to knock out of position. I would think that if Tesoro put an internal auto GB in their new unit, the owner could be confident that he/she could do no better balancing with a manual knob/button and would not have to worry about it being knocked off balance during the hunt.
If the difference in cost of auto GB vs manual GB is large but the difference in performance or convenience is not, I would say just make the GB knob more stable (O ring,push lock, something of that nature). But having one less thing to worry about when setting up and using your machine sits very nicely in Tesoro's "keep it simple" philosophy, dontcha think?
If the difference in cost of auto GB vs manual GB is large but the difference in performance or convenience is not, I would say just make the GB knob more stable (O ring,push lock, something of that nature). But having one less thing to worry about when setting up and using your machine sits very nicely in Tesoro's "keep it simple" philosophy, dontcha think?
BarberBill
New member
Mojo - what your guy says about the auto versus manual gb may be true, but my point was how does one know if it's calibrated or working accurately? I tend to go along with Bill F as to wheter or not small increments make enough difference to be of much concern.
BB
BB
Price of potentiometers; few years back when I was pricing ten turn potentiometers to modify my Cibola, I searched the part number on the 3.75 turn pot that is in my Tejon and found them available for under $2 in single item pricing. A 10 turn was about $12. As Sven says, placement is a little more limited with most of the 10 turn pots than with the 3.75 turn; but in my opinion, seems a small price to pay for the ability to fine tune to bad ground. As noted elsewhere in this thread, mild ground settings are not the issue, it is truly bad ground where precise settings are important.
So how important is precise setting? The two examples from my experience where the fine setting makes big differences are gravel parking lots where the gravel is not limestone, but crushed granite and quartz mixes and wet salt sand. In the bad gravel, the ten turn on the Cibola mod makes those difficult lots huntable. With the 3.75 turn on the Tejon I have to walk away. I can hunt those lots with the modified Cibola or the F75-LTD that I have. The LTD ground balance numerical range is 0 to 100 with 5 clicks for each number. How each click translates to the 3.75 turn wire wound or the 10 turn wire wound pot I don't know. Over wet salt sand, the Tesoro detectors do not balance to the wet salt, so I can't compare. The F75-LTD balances to the wet salt and hunts well when accurately ground balanced. Being off one click can make it sound off on changes in wetness of the sand. For a single frequency detector, at the extremes of the ground balance conditions (the granite gravel and the wet salt) a very small change in adjustment makes a large difference in ability to use the detector and find targets.
Is it worth a few more dollars for a 10 turn versus the 3.75 turn. In many hunting conditions it doesn't matter; but when conditions are difficult, in my opinion, it is money very well spent. Alternatively, a new design with a full digital range would do the trick too; but keep it light and simple and cost effective.
Cheers,
tvr
P.S. As data points for where the numerical ground balance setting is for hunting: Most dirt I hunt has a GB setting on the F75 between 55 and 70. In those conditions I can set it off by 5 or 6 and still detect well without falsing. Over the bad gravel, I'm set around 87 or 88 and a small setting change makes a big difference on falsing and ability to find targets. Over wet salt sand the setting is 0 to 1 and again, a small change, one click, makes a big difference in results. With the Cibola and Tejon I am near the end of the range clockwise when hunting the bad gravel; kind of where I am with 87 to 88 on the LTD. For most dirt, it is set near the mid-range on the Cibola and Tejon.
So how important is precise setting? The two examples from my experience where the fine setting makes big differences are gravel parking lots where the gravel is not limestone, but crushed granite and quartz mixes and wet salt sand. In the bad gravel, the ten turn on the Cibola mod makes those difficult lots huntable. With the 3.75 turn on the Tejon I have to walk away. I can hunt those lots with the modified Cibola or the F75-LTD that I have. The LTD ground balance numerical range is 0 to 100 with 5 clicks for each number. How each click translates to the 3.75 turn wire wound or the 10 turn wire wound pot I don't know. Over wet salt sand, the Tesoro detectors do not balance to the wet salt, so I can't compare. The F75-LTD balances to the wet salt and hunts well when accurately ground balanced. Being off one click can make it sound off on changes in wetness of the sand. For a single frequency detector, at the extremes of the ground balance conditions (the granite gravel and the wet salt) a very small change in adjustment makes a large difference in ability to use the detector and find targets.
Is it worth a few more dollars for a 10 turn versus the 3.75 turn. In many hunting conditions it doesn't matter; but when conditions are difficult, in my opinion, it is money very well spent. Alternatively, a new design with a full digital range would do the trick too; but keep it light and simple and cost effective.
Cheers,
tvr
P.S. As data points for where the numerical ground balance setting is for hunting: Most dirt I hunt has a GB setting on the F75 between 55 and 70. In those conditions I can set it off by 5 or 6 and still detect well without falsing. Over the bad gravel, I'm set around 87 or 88 and a small setting change makes a big difference on falsing and ability to find targets. Over wet salt sand the setting is 0 to 1 and again, a small change, one click, makes a big difference in results. With the Cibola and Tejon I am near the end of the range clockwise when hunting the bad gravel; kind of where I am with 87 to 88 on the LTD. For most dirt, it is set near the mid-range on the Cibola and Tejon.
BarberBill said:
hmmm...I dont know the answer to that one. I suppose that unless the machine is performing very poorly, we just have to assume the manufacturer did a good job calibrating everything.I bet someone with more experience has a trick to check if GB is working correctly, but I dont know how.
I think we all put a lot of trust into the makers of these machines. I think thats why Tesoro has a great following -- we trust that their machines are built well.