there always seems to be Racers (both originals & Racer 2's) up for sale on the classifieds---but---it don't seem like you hardly ever see Fors CoRe's for sale (used).-----Is it the fact that fewer CoRe's were sold in the first place----people just plain want to keep a CoRe once they get one---or other reasons?-----Any thoughts on that?
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Why do you suppose it is that.........
- Thread starter D&P-OR
- Start date
OregonGregg
Well-known member
The Fors CoRe is a great machine. As far as balance and ergonomics it still beats my racer 2, especially when using larger coils.Most the time I use my Racer 2 with a small coil and take advantage of the iron audio volume. If I need to use a larger coil I will use the Fors CoRe. Back when it was only the Red Racer and Fors CoRe, I much preferred the CoRe over the Red Racer. Even now i'll still grab my CoRe machine and if I want to quiet it down a bit in iron infested sites, I will run my discrimination up to around 20-21( enough to knock out nails) without much fear of losing its unmasking ability with a higher disc setting.
I really like mine and ya won't see it for sale in the ads
I really like mine and ya won't see it for sale in the ads
I am going to share my 'opinions' but they are somewhat supported by those of others I have met afield who own and use either the FOES CoRe and/or Relic and the Racer and/or Racer 2. Also by discussions I have had:
• in e-mails or over the phone
• meeting people when on an Outing or out detecting who I demonstrate my detectors to and let them handle them and see what they think
• and from those who have attended a seminar or small discussion group and have worked these models in some test scenarios against their detectors.
Let's consider someone making an initial purchase and, right from the start we have different 'shopping opportunities' than what we used to enjoy in the '70s, '80s and early '90s. We have far fewer metal detector dealers than we once enjoyed, and because there are few, if any, stocking dealers in most communities, detector shoppers don't have the opportunity to visit a shop, ask questions for first-hand answers, and more importantly get to handle the detectors.
I guess that then leaves a lot up to their imagination based on what they see in a photograph and how they perceive things since most folks kind of go 'window shopping' based on what they see on the Internet, in videos, or maybe in a photo or brochure. Without direct questions and answers with a dealer and handling them prior to purchase, many buy the detector based upon their own detecting experiences and how they perceive the new, unhandled detector to feel, balance, adjust controls and perform in their hunting applications. So let's briefly break some things down.
Appearance/Weight/Balance:
Many people look at the Racer and Racer 2 and then the FORS CoRe and Relic and simply compare them by what they see and how they 'think' a detector might feel, so 'comfort' is one thing people wonder about but most don't have the opportunity to go see them and handle them beforehand. Most people, from what I have heard or had a response from 'think' the Nokta FORS CoRe and Relic look heavy and awkward, and are concerned about balance and 'feel.' Those same people offer out their belief that the Makro Racer and Racer 2 'appear' to be a lot lighter and better balanced models.
Thus, many of those shoppers facing a this-or-that decision based on how the weight and balance look, buy a Racer or Racer 2 believing them to be better balanced. My personal opinions are that the Racer is an 'OK' detector, except for the abrupt handle/grip bend which I find uncomfortable with a mid-size to larger [size=small](standard)[/size] search coil for any lengthier search time.
The Racer 2, on the other hand, I find much more comfortable to use with both the smaller-size 'OOR' or round 5½" DD coils for day-long hunts, and for me, the mid-sized 5½X10 DD is also reasonably comfortable to use when working sparse-target to modest trash areas that are mostly level. As Oregon Gregg mentioned, and I have heard it from others and feel the same myself, the larger, standard-size 7X11 DD coil works just fine and isn't too bad to use ... for a shorter duration hunt on relatively level ground. I have used a 7X11 DD coil ONLY on my Racer 2 so far this entire month Coin Hunting grassy parks, a sports field, and a couple of plowed dirt areas, and tomorrow, November 1st, I will be swapping back to my favorite smaller-size coil.
The 7X11 on the Racer series is just not as comfortable to use as the same size 7X11 DD coil on either my CoRe or Relic. As many have noticed when I've given them the opportunity to handle my CoRe or Relic, these models are much lighter weight and better balanced than what they appear to be. Once in-hand you don't just feel the nice weight and balance, but they are more comfortable working any of the three sizes of search coils. Even with my bad neck, back and shoulder the CoRe/Relic are pleasant enough to let me spend longer periods of time hunting with a mid-size or larger/standard-size search coil.
Display & Control Design:
Most people, at least here in the USA and other places where the primary use of detectors is for a 'hobbyist' who mainly engages in Coin Hunting, have fallen in love with using Visual Target ID. Too often people over-rely on using the TID/VDI numeric displays to help them make a dig/no-dig decision. They look at the CoRe and Relic where most display information is on the left side of the control box with an easy-to-see numeric VDI read-out in the handgrip display. They look at the Racer and Racer 2 and see there is a full-information display staring them in the face with all sorts of extra information that is viewable at a glance. Also, that full display of modes and adjustment settings and various read-outs is easily viewable at any time, even when it's not very light outside, by a momentary or constant display back-light, not found on the FORS CoRe display.
That, alone, is a good reason why so many 'average' or 'hobbyist' shoppers buy the Racer and Racer 2 instead of the CoRe or Relic. The bulk of these people also fall into a category of less-frequent detector users. They look at all the control functions available, and while the CoRe or Relic are easily adjustable and have some plus points in their favor from my point of view, I think the majorly of detector users see the Racer and Racer 2 as more easily adjusted using their thumb to use the four push-button control set on the display to do everything 'single-handed.'
So after 'window shopping' on the computer, magazine ads, etc., the Racer and Racer 2 probably get more quick-response or impulse sales than the CoRe or Relic. Oh, one more thing I have noticed in the decades I've been enjoying this sport, is that a big percentage of the people really only can afford, or only have a desire, to own one detector, although some might have two. For them, they buy and sell and buy and sell to try things out, but quite often don't give a detector time to prove itself, or for them to prove their self by learning and mastering the detector. Instead, it's back to appearance and features that razzle-dazzle so many people.
Now, for comparison, let's add in the decisions made by people who might be more 'avid detectorists':
These are usually people who know, and maybe use, visual TID but do not rely on it so much because they also know the weaknesses of doing that. While all of these models have 2-Tone and 3-Tone Discriminate modes, the more 'avid detectorists' [size=small](and some can be dedicated Coin Hunters but a bigger majority are Relic Hunters)[/size] get serious about finding stuff so they seem to pay more attention to a detector's audio response. Many do not really care to have an excess of display information that they really don't need. I know several who own and use a Racer 2, but seldom refer to the visual Display and hunt with it the same way they would with a CoRe or Relic, and that is mainly by audio response information.
Most of the folks in this group DO spend more time with a detector, and that means more time spent not just finding stuff, but learning more about a detector's strengths and weaknesses. Thus, they are not as quick to part with a detector once they learn how well it works and what it can do for them, and realize very good balance and feel. Since more 'avid' users in this group would pick a CoRe or Relic than the other 'hobbyist' group, you're not likely to see as many CoRe and Relic models put up for sacrifice on a Classified Forum as you will a Racer series model..
On that thought is the fact that many of the people who are more avid or serious about this outdoor enjoyment, get out more often, branch out into more hunting locations and types of hunting, and because they are more devoted to the sport, often have more than one or two detectors. It's not uncommon for a serious recreationalist to have three, four, five, eight, eleven or ??? who know how many detectors in their personal arsenal. Thus, they are not in such a big hurry to HAVE to let one go just to buy-and-try another.
Comfort Afield:
For "prolonged period of detecting" I refer to several hours or to a day-long search. I will consider there to be three categories of coil sizes used: The smaller coils, those being the 'OOR' or the round 5½" DD coils; the mid-sized coils which are the 5½X10 DD [size=small](or Concentric *)[/size]; and the larger-size or standard-size 7X11 DD.
The one physical operating difference of the Relic to the other four models mentioned is that it does have both a 5½X10 DD and 5½X10 Concentric coil options. It's also fair to consider the Relic because, like the Racer 2, it has a different Iron/Non-Iron TID range, features the Iron Audio Volume adjustment, and has Tone Break adjustment, plus it has the added 'DEEP' 2-Tone Discriminate mode.
The CoRe, as you noted, has been around the longest of these four models and one might think it would be seen on the 'For Sale' listings more, but it isn't. I also see the Racer and Racer 2 listed more often than the Relic. So other than the things I have brought out so far in comparing these two Racer models and two FORS series models, I'll just remind readers who don't know me, that I'm not young and spry as I once was. Fifty two years of metal detecting put some wear on me, and with my health related mobility limitations it makes it more difficult to hunt for longer periods, if a detector package is not comfortable. I really enjoy using my Racer 2 ... with a smaller or mid-sized coil ... but happily grab either my CoRe or Relic for the bulk of my longer-period searches and to use with any of the search coils, especially the standard 7X11 as they are more comfortable.
Thus, one reason more Racer models get listed for sale might be the very abrupt hand-grip angle. One might be because the Racer series are not kept long enough to be learned by average hobbyists. One reason might be because they want to sell a Racer or Racer 2 in order to buy a CoRe or Relic.
Actually that's not so funny because I know five people who made such a move as they determined the CoRe or Relic was more of a 'serious' and/or 'comfortable' detector for their needs, but then they also happen to be more devoted detecting enthusiasts. ([size=small]Oh, three of the five also kept their Racer 2 so they only added the CoRe or Relic and didn't really part with their Racer 2.)[/size]
Again, let me apologize for another one of my lengthy replies. It's easier to openly discuss things than put them to print and I get distracted because of that. I do hope my opinions were of some merit, and I do agree that the CoRe is less often seen up-for-sale as a Racer or Racer 2, just as I see far fewer Relic models offered. In closing I will add one more observation I have made and that is I know many avid detectorists, especially those with more varied interests that include Relic Hunting or working for Coins in more difficult environments, who own more than one make and model detector.
They might have a Racer 2 and a different brand unit, or they might have a CoRe or Relic and a competitor's model, but I know more who have two or more Racer models, two or more CoRe models, two or more Relic models, or a mixture of Racer series, CoRe or Relic models in their detector arsenal. Often it will be people in this group, and that includes me, who keep an eye open for any of these to come available for a reasonable price and they buy them in order to have multiples of the same model just to keep different search coils mounted. I am not alone.
Monte
• in e-mails or over the phone
• meeting people when on an Outing or out detecting who I demonstrate my detectors to and let them handle them and see what they think
• and from those who have attended a seminar or small discussion group and have worked these models in some test scenarios against their detectors.
Very good question, a likely correct presumption, and as I stated in my subject heading, I am adding the FORS Relic along with the CoRe. These two FORS series models have a lot in common like the two Racer series models you mentioned.D&P-OR said:
Let's consider someone making an initial purchase and, right from the start we have different 'shopping opportunities' than what we used to enjoy in the '70s, '80s and early '90s. We have far fewer metal detector dealers than we once enjoyed, and because there are few, if any, stocking dealers in most communities, detector shoppers don't have the opportunity to visit a shop, ask questions for first-hand answers, and more importantly get to handle the detectors.
I guess that then leaves a lot up to their imagination based on what they see in a photograph and how they perceive things since most folks kind of go 'window shopping' based on what they see on the Internet, in videos, or maybe in a photo or brochure. Without direct questions and answers with a dealer and handling them prior to purchase, many buy the detector based upon their own detecting experiences and how they perceive the new, unhandled detector to feel, balance, adjust controls and perform in their hunting applications. So let's briefly break some things down.
Appearance/Weight/Balance:
Many people look at the Racer and Racer 2 and then the FORS CoRe and Relic and simply compare them by what they see and how they 'think' a detector might feel, so 'comfort' is one thing people wonder about but most don't have the opportunity to go see them and handle them beforehand. Most people, from what I have heard or had a response from 'think' the Nokta FORS CoRe and Relic look heavy and awkward, and are concerned about balance and 'feel.' Those same people offer out their belief that the Makro Racer and Racer 2 'appear' to be a lot lighter and better balanced models.
Thus, many of those shoppers facing a this-or-that decision based on how the weight and balance look, buy a Racer or Racer 2 believing them to be better balanced. My personal opinions are that the Racer is an 'OK' detector, except for the abrupt handle/grip bend which I find uncomfortable with a mid-size to larger [size=small](standard)[/size] search coil for any lengthier search time.
The Racer 2, on the other hand, I find much more comfortable to use with both the smaller-size 'OOR' or round 5½" DD coils for day-long hunts, and for me, the mid-sized 5½X10 DD is also reasonably comfortable to use when working sparse-target to modest trash areas that are mostly level. As Oregon Gregg mentioned, and I have heard it from others and feel the same myself, the larger, standard-size 7X11 DD coil works just fine and isn't too bad to use ... for a shorter duration hunt on relatively level ground. I have used a 7X11 DD coil ONLY on my Racer 2 so far this entire month Coin Hunting grassy parks, a sports field, and a couple of plowed dirt areas, and tomorrow, November 1st, I will be swapping back to my favorite smaller-size coil.
The 7X11 on the Racer series is just not as comfortable to use as the same size 7X11 DD coil on either my CoRe or Relic. As many have noticed when I've given them the opportunity to handle my CoRe or Relic, these models are much lighter weight and better balanced than what they appear to be. Once in-hand you don't just feel the nice weight and balance, but they are more comfortable working any of the three sizes of search coils. Even with my bad neck, back and shoulder the CoRe/Relic are pleasant enough to let me spend longer periods of time hunting with a mid-size or larger/standard-size search coil.
Display & Control Design:
Most people, at least here in the USA and other places where the primary use of detectors is for a 'hobbyist' who mainly engages in Coin Hunting, have fallen in love with using Visual Target ID. Too often people over-rely on using the TID/VDI numeric displays to help them make a dig/no-dig decision. They look at the CoRe and Relic where most display information is on the left side of the control box with an easy-to-see numeric VDI read-out in the handgrip display. They look at the Racer and Racer 2 and see there is a full-information display staring them in the face with all sorts of extra information that is viewable at a glance. Also, that full display of modes and adjustment settings and various read-outs is easily viewable at any time, even when it's not very light outside, by a momentary or constant display back-light, not found on the FORS CoRe display.
That, alone, is a good reason why so many 'average' or 'hobbyist' shoppers buy the Racer and Racer 2 instead of the CoRe or Relic. The bulk of these people also fall into a category of less-frequent detector users. They look at all the control functions available, and while the CoRe or Relic are easily adjustable and have some plus points in their favor from my point of view, I think the majorly of detector users see the Racer and Racer 2 as more easily adjusted using their thumb to use the four push-button control set on the display to do everything 'single-handed.'
So after 'window shopping' on the computer, magazine ads, etc., the Racer and Racer 2 probably get more quick-response or impulse sales than the CoRe or Relic. Oh, one more thing I have noticed in the decades I've been enjoying this sport, is that a big percentage of the people really only can afford, or only have a desire, to own one detector, although some might have two. For them, they buy and sell and buy and sell to try things out, but quite often don't give a detector time to prove itself, or for them to prove their self by learning and mastering the detector. Instead, it's back to appearance and features that razzle-dazzle so many people.
Now, for comparison, let's add in the decisions made by people who might be more 'avid detectorists':
These are usually people who know, and maybe use, visual TID but do not rely on it so much because they also know the weaknesses of doing that. While all of these models have 2-Tone and 3-Tone Discriminate modes, the more 'avid detectorists' [size=small](and some can be dedicated Coin Hunters but a bigger majority are Relic Hunters)[/size] get serious about finding stuff so they seem to pay more attention to a detector's audio response. Many do not really care to have an excess of display information that they really don't need. I know several who own and use a Racer 2, but seldom refer to the visual Display and hunt with it the same way they would with a CoRe or Relic, and that is mainly by audio response information.
Most of the folks in this group DO spend more time with a detector, and that means more time spent not just finding stuff, but learning more about a detector's strengths and weaknesses. Thus, they are not as quick to part with a detector once they learn how well it works and what it can do for them, and realize very good balance and feel. Since more 'avid' users in this group would pick a CoRe or Relic than the other 'hobbyist' group, you're not likely to see as many CoRe and Relic models put up for sacrifice on a Classified Forum as you will a Racer series model..
On that thought is the fact that many of the people who are more avid or serious about this outdoor enjoyment, get out more often, branch out into more hunting locations and types of hunting, and because they are more devoted to the sport, often have more than one or two detectors. It's not uncommon for a serious recreationalist to have three, four, five, eight, eleven or ??? who know how many detectors in their personal arsenal. Thus, they are not in such a big hurry to HAVE to let one go just to buy-and-try another.
Comfort Afield:
For "prolonged period of detecting" I refer to several hours or to a day-long search. I will consider there to be three categories of coil sizes used: The smaller coils, those being the 'OOR' or the round 5½" DD coils; the mid-sized coils which are the 5½X10 DD [size=small](or Concentric *)[/size]; and the larger-size or standard-size 7X11 DD.
The one physical operating difference of the Relic to the other four models mentioned is that it does have both a 5½X10 DD and 5½X10 Concentric coil options. It's also fair to consider the Relic because, like the Racer 2, it has a different Iron/Non-Iron TID range, features the Iron Audio Volume adjustment, and has Tone Break adjustment, plus it has the added 'DEEP' 2-Tone Discriminate mode.
The CoRe, as you noted, has been around the longest of these four models and one might think it would be seen on the 'For Sale' listings more, but it isn't. I also see the Racer and Racer 2 listed more often than the Relic. So other than the things I have brought out so far in comparing these two Racer models and two FORS series models, I'll just remind readers who don't know me, that I'm not young and spry as I once was. Fifty two years of metal detecting put some wear on me, and with my health related mobility limitations it makes it more difficult to hunt for longer periods, if a detector package is not comfortable. I really enjoy using my Racer 2 ... with a smaller or mid-sized coil ... but happily grab either my CoRe or Relic for the bulk of my longer-period searches and to use with any of the search coils, especially the standard 7X11 as they are more comfortable.
Thus, one reason more Racer models get listed for sale might be the very abrupt hand-grip angle. One might be because the Racer series are not kept long enough to be learned by average hobbyists. One reason might be because they want to sell a Racer or Racer 2 in order to buy a CoRe or Relic.
Actually that's not so funny because I know five people who made such a move as they determined the CoRe or Relic was more of a 'serious' and/or 'comfortable' detector for their needs, but then they also happen to be more devoted detecting enthusiasts. ([size=small]Oh, three of the five also kept their Racer 2 so they only added the CoRe or Relic and didn't really part with their Racer 2.)[/size]Again, let me apologize for another one of my lengthy replies. It's easier to openly discuss things than put them to print and I get distracted because of that. I do hope my opinions were of some merit, and I do agree that the CoRe is less often seen up-for-sale as a Racer or Racer 2, just as I see far fewer Relic models offered. In closing I will add one more observation I have made and that is I know many avid detectorists, especially those with more varied interests that include Relic Hunting or working for Coins in more difficult environments, who own more than one make and model detector.
They might have a Racer 2 and a different brand unit, or they might have a CoRe or Relic and a competitor's model, but I know more who have two or more Racer models, two or more CoRe models, two or more Relic models, or a mixture of Racer series, CoRe or Relic models in their detector arsenal. Often it will be people in this group, and that includes me, who keep an eye open for any of these to come available for a reasonable price and they buy them in order to have multiples of the same model just to keep different search coils mounted. I am not alone.
Monte
Hoser John
New member
lack of quality as trouble prone as seen many times. Bummer-John
associated with a particular statement, so I am not sure what you are making reference to.
Would you like to explain what model/s have "quality" issues or which are factually "trouble prone" in your opinion?
Thanks,
Monte
I have seen, and continue to with some brands or models, some "trouble prone" issues, and certainty I see "quality" issues with some detectors. In this case I don't know which make or models you are referring to, or what "quality" you feel is lacking, I what seems to be "trouble-prone." I considered ALL of my personal units in my detector arsenal and don't have a problem with any of them. Those include my Tesoro's, my Makro Racer series models, my Nokta FORS CoRe and Relic models.Hoser John said:
Would you like to explain what model/s have "quality" issues or which are factually "trouble prone" in your opinion?
Thanks,
Monte
I just sold mine only because I can only swing one at a time and I hate to see a unit sit especially when it has warranty left on it. I had the Pro Pkg and I did have to get a replacement large coil because the material was cracking and flaking away between the ears; handled very well by Nokta & Kellyco.
I prefer older home coin hunting but I live so rural that I find most of my hunts are short park hunts that I get in between doctor/family visits & grocery shopping. I also do some lake and river hunting too, where allowed, when my wife and I camp at WA/OR parks. I have some highly mineralized soil and the CTX has handled it the best (smooth, most accurate ID at depth, overall depth) and it's waterproof so I use it 95% of the time but in heavy ferrous I needed another option. The Nokta CoRe filled that niche very well until I tried the Gold Racer. The CoRe is deeper on high conductors, as expected, but the Gold Racer with the 4x7" coil picks out the keepers in iron as well as the CoRe, is lighter, and is my first choice for the tot lot small gold and tight brushy areas.
I want to thank OregonGregg, D&P-OR, & Monte for exposing me to these units... they also know how nasty my soil can be in certain areas.
I prefer older home coin hunting but I live so rural that I find most of my hunts are short park hunts that I get in between doctor/family visits & grocery shopping. I also do some lake and river hunting too, where allowed, when my wife and I camp at WA/OR parks. I have some highly mineralized soil and the CTX has handled it the best (smooth, most accurate ID at depth, overall depth) and it's waterproof so I use it 95% of the time but in heavy ferrous I needed another option. The Nokta CoRe filled that niche very well until I tried the Gold Racer. The CoRe is deeper on high conductors, as expected, but the Gold Racer with the 4x7" coil picks out the keepers in iron as well as the CoRe, is lighter, and is my first choice for the tot lot small gold and tight brushy areas.
I want to thank OregonGregg, D&P-OR, & Monte for exposing me to these units... they also know how nasty my soil can be in certain areas.
That is I am sorry to hear you sold your FORS CoRe Pro Package as I didn't see it listed for sale, or it didn't register with me if I did, because I have a friend in Utah looking for a CoRe. He was holding off until the first of the month's payday, but I think he's going to buy a brand new one to get the End-of-Year special from Nokta.
That said, I am pleased to hear you have acquired a Makro Gold Racer. I prefer to use my Racer 2 for most urban playgrounds and other Coin Hunting sites, but I do like to grab my Gold Racer when I am more intently looking for lower-conductive gold jewelry. For me it's kind of a toss-up between the 5½" round DD and the 5½X10 elliptical DD based upon the particular sites I am h8njting, and for most Coin & Jewelry Hunting needs it is about a 50/50 split. I do use the 5½" DD more for other applications and for when I get into places where gold specimens are going to be of smaller sizes.
I guess I need to get a 4X7 coil by springtime when I will be heading back into some Gold Nugget Hunting areas again.
Sad the CoRe is gone because I enjoy mine immensely and I know what they can do, but I am sure you'll like the Gold Racer even more as time goes on.
Monte
That said, I am pleased to hear you have acquired a Makro Gold Racer. I prefer to use my Racer 2 for most urban playgrounds and other Coin Hunting sites, but I do like to grab my Gold Racer when I am more intently looking for lower-conductive gold jewelry. For me it's kind of a toss-up between the 5½" round DD and the 5½X10 elliptical DD based upon the particular sites I am h8njting, and for most Coin & Jewelry Hunting needs it is about a 50/50 split. I do use the 5½" DD more for other applications and for when I get into places where gold specimens are going to be of smaller sizes.
I guess I need to get a 4X7 coil by springtime when I will be heading back into some Gold Nugget Hunting areas again.
Sad the CoRe is gone because I enjoy mine immensely and I know what they can do, but I am sure you'll like the Gold Racer even more as time goes on.
Monte