who is heading into 2011 with the Sovereign.

[jamesinwesttexas]

I can't explain the masking issue very well because I don't understand it well, not like a few others on this forum. But there has been some debate on this forum as well as others. The best comment on the subject comes from Monte. My understanding is the GT is not the best detector for iron unmasking and even the "lowly" Compadre seems to do it better. Hope one of you experts will chime in. James

 

[Critterhunter]

Iron masking and recovery speed are too different birds. Is the Sovereign a fast recovery machine? No, but that means nothing provided you use proper coil technique and don't swing too fast. But in ability to ignore the iron and sound off the another target, no machine I've owned can hold a candle to Iron Mask's ability on the Sovereign. The machine will do it's best to ignore the iron and give proper ID or at least one not severely averaged down to the other target. The fast recovery machines I've owned in this respect did not have as good of ability to see the item mixed with the iron. In terms of iron and a coin or something laying close to each other the Sovereign has more than fast enough recovery speed to see them seperately SO LONG as you use the coil properly and don't swing at it like your launching a golf ball. In fact, many machines using concentric coils can't get in between the two targets nearly as good as the Sovereign using a DD coil from my experience.

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Interesting comment Critter. I need to do some more comparison between the detectors I have and hope to read more comment on that issue. Lately I've been tossing a coin or ring down beside an old horseshoe or big nail and trying to learn from that but hope to get a better understanding of it. James

 

[Critterhunter]

The detection field will see a target laying with a nail easier if you are parallel to the nail (lined up with it's length), where as if you are at 90 degrees to that nail the detection field will have a much harder time seeing the coin. That's why it's important to hunt and area from two different directions 90 degrees from each other. I try to hunt pounded spots at odd angles to what most guys would detect the area. For instance, if it's a mowed grass field with a wood line next to it most people will line up parallel with the wood line and work the spot like they are mowing the grass. That's probably 80% of all hunters, while the other 20% will "mow the grass" going straight into the edge of the wood line and then straight away from it...so that would be a 90 degree pattern and far less people hunt it that way. On the other hand, I'll often go an a diagnol angle to the wood line back and fourth. That's shifting the detection field to an odd angle that probably nobody hunts with and as a result you will hit masked coins that the other two directions would miss. Try it at pounded out sites. Don't follow the crowd and mow the grass parallel or at 90 degrees to some ground feature. Be that odd guy on the block who mows his grass diagnol across his lawn.

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Interesting observation and I will try that. I guess its always matter of setting up the best you can for the conditions and then trying to ease across the good target before the iron. As always, I need more practice. I've read that some of the old 100k Compasses are hard to beat for hunting in iron but not deep or in mineralized ground and are hard to keep tuned. This is a very interesting and relevant subject which I hope others will comment on.
James

 

[JOHNMARKHAM]

well if mrs claus is nice i just might be getting a new one?? im also working on getting a used elite too..
i got my new headphones and amp now, just need detectors.ive even ordered pluggers rods for them....hope my stocking gets filled??

 

[Critterhunter]

Next time you are playing around lay a nail down right on top or laying right next to a dime. Put the front of your coil at a 90 degree angle to the nail so that you are heading right into the side of it and not looking down the nail's length. You can still get a coin ID this way but it's much harder than if you sweep at it being parallel (looking down the length) to the nail. Has to do with the DD detection field which is pretty much a line that goes from tip to tail of the coil in it's center. Concentric coils put out a signal that is much broader and so most of the time they'll have a harder time with unmasking targets like this. Also, after masking a coin in various ways try wiggling the coil back and fourth in short (2 to 5" wide) sweeps while slowly crawling the coil forward and backward over the two target signal. You'll find a certain very tight spot where you'll hit a perfect coin signal. I love to check out "trash" or even iron nulls with this method and see if I can find a good coin signal mixed in there. It's an odd way to check targets out and wasn't appearant to me until I did some extensive mask testing of the S-5 coil versus the 10" Tornado (I posted a thread on this complete with masking pictures). Both coils could unmask some really badly masked coins provided you knew how to wiggle and creep the coil around until you hovered over the right little spot. Switch 90 degrees and it might go real bad or null completely, so I've learned to dig those perfect sounding coin signals even if they are bad from any other angle or spot over it. Really opened my eyes, as my normal investigation method with other machines was just to hack at the edges of trash looking for coins. NOT, you have to hover right over some of these and then move the coil very slowly forward and back over it as you do the wiggle until you find that one spot where the coin ID comes through.

 

[synthnut]

Hey John,
You have to make sure that you fill Mrs Claus' stocking with some of your good finds !!...... She'll keept the detectors coming as long as you keep the jewelry coming !!..... It's a WIN WIN !!.....Jim

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Thanks for the tips Critter. Can't wait to get my coil mount glued back on so I can try the GT out again. I really need to try and perfect that wiggle. I was finding wheat pennies at the last spot I used the GT. I would like to have a smaller coil for it, only have the 10 inch Tornado.
James

 

[adam in cal]

yea.......not sure about the GT ........it never really lived up to it's much hyped billing in my book.........I however took an honest approach to the sovereign elite.......I had high expectations due to the many idiots on these fourms and the tall tales of gold and silver........but Like a true soldier I dug and learned and dug and learned...........I wouldnt trade my elite for any-machine out there............I may try or buy others ...but no doubt I am closing out the rest of my years with the piticular machine I have as my main squeeze.........

 

[Neil]

I can't explain the masking issue very well because I don't understand it well, not like a few others on this forum. But there has been some debate on this forum as well as others. The best comment on the subject comes from Monte. My understanding is the GT is not the best detector for iron unmasking and even the "lowly" Compadre seems to do it better. Hope one of you experts will chime in. James

The sov is not one of the better machines when it comes to seperating up targets in the ground. A lot of it has to do with the speed of the machine, letting go of one target and not blending it in with the next and also the tightness of the coils window. if youve ever tried a shadow X5 with the 10" DD eliptical or a fisher
F75(for examples) this becomes evident after hunting them. their DD coils are more like windshield wipers going over the ground versus most of the sovs coils which have a much broader window.
Minelab addressed this with their pro coil on the SE Pro and Etrac, its got a pretty tight window although I think the SEF coils are even tighter yet, plus their iron mask is adjustable, something the sov could really benefit from.
It really is as simple as that, two objects in the ground and what does the coil(on the detector your using) see at one time when passing over them. does it get between them, is it seeing both together, is it able to process one quickly and then again quickly process the next target(this can be partially compensated by sweep speed).
Ever heard of the sov wiggle? thats a term you will see used where you can bring up a targets ID better with the sov by doing tight quick sweeps over an iffy signal. what that does is cut down on what the sov sees so it can better ID a given target. So if you think about that and then think about the sov having to be hunted slowly, its pretty evident that the sov struggles when in trashy areas. otherwise those quick sweeps could be utilized all the time.
The sov and explorer/etrac will ID better than the F75 at depth and other advantages also, so not to confuse those with seperating up targets. It is what it is and no more.
what I find strange is minelab has done very little with the sov since its initial release, they have concentrated on other detectors, especially the explorer series and their high end gold detectors. like what fisher did with the CZ series, just little mods along the way. both are fine units and have stood the test of time.
James I would recommend you try an F75 or T2 or similiar detector and see how you like it. You might find those better for your area and you might even find that the sov has been the best for you all along, but you yourself will know this way.

 

[goodmore]

A little off topic here, but while we are talking recovery speed I have a question. I go out of my way to not criticize other machines. What I don't like about a machine someone else might like. I had an F75 LTD. A very powerful detector especially with the boost on. Recovery speed very fast. Light as a feather. Everything I wanted in a machine for dirt digging except for the chatter. I have mentioned the chatter on here before so I won't keep kicking that horse. What I want to know is there a detector out there with a quick recovery speed that can come close to the quietness of the Sovereign? It seems to me that quick recovery and chatter box go hand in hand.

 

[Neil]

goodmore I sent you a PM but rereading your post I guess you sold off your F75?

the minelab advantage has a very quick recovery speed, runs quiet and has a nice tight windown on its coil. I really wish minelab had come up with a meter for this detector.

CZs are alot faster but your stuck with concentric coils on those.

Tejon and Vaquero, again no meter.

The MXT is a quick one also and runs smooth/quiet, but to me was heavy for longer hunts. That was a fun detector, Ive thought of getting another one of those.

 

[jamesinwesttexas]

Thanks for those comments Neil. I'm getting a better understanding of what's going on with the Sov. I would like to try the T2 or the F75, but mainly determined to learn the Sov better partly because of the ID at depth that you mentioned. Seems like a small coil with a windshield wiper blade pattern would work best at unmasking. Which one do you recommend? Thanks. James

 

[marsh]

Without doubt, I will be using my GT in 2011 and [size=medium][/size]more than likely in 2012, cos I've just made a straight shaft for it and love it even more........

 

[jerseydigger]

Keeping my xs forever , small 5 " sunray coil ,8" coinsearch coil, anf the 12x15 butterfly coil, 180 meter and pluggers shaft. Want an e trac, but don't want to spend the $ thats too hard to come by now!

 

[JASONSPAZ1]

perhaps Minelab will make a new version of the Sovereign which will have a faster processor that can compute the 17 frequencies faster which will result in faster recovery speeds. But to answer your question . No nothing else exists but perhaps an e-trac.