Hi folks I have a White's Classic IDX (no mods. done) that will be here in a day or two and have heard that by setting the disc. just above iron/turning the sens. as far as you can/switching it in black sand mode/ makes it better hitting on jewelry,rings,chains,etc. and will increase the depth. Can anyone expalin to me what actually happens when using the black sand setting, my guess is it lowers the discrimination but like I say it is only my quess. Thanks! Steve.
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White's Classic ID Question
- Thread starter SkiWhiz
- Start date
I believe in the black sand mode shifts the TID slightly negative to compensate for the conductive sands. Your deepest setting will be the disc fully counter clockwise and sense as far clockwise as you can stand. Even deeper would to search in the true all metal mode. Trigger forward. Even deeper than that would have the mods done so you can set the GB and threshold in the true all metal mode. Trigger forward.
Howdy Steve
I just found a Classic ID for a friend of mine, he really likes it because it is so simple to learn. It just finds coins really easily, but when it comes to jewelery, it will be all over the meter as to where it will come in at. He found a nice big gold class ring with it and it read pulltab on the meter, and returned it to the young man who had lost it, very happy lad he was! The gold jewelery is very tricky to find as it mimics foil, nickle and pultab meter readings.Location would be the ticket to find gold, just look around old swimin hole, front yards of old high schools etc. you get the idea.and dig the low coductor readings.,,,,,,just might get you banner of a find.........good luck..........Hombre
I just found a Classic ID for a friend of mine, he really likes it because it is so simple to learn. It just finds coins really easily, but when it comes to jewelery, it will be all over the meter as to where it will come in at. He found a nice big gold class ring with it and it read pulltab on the meter, and returned it to the young man who had lost it, very happy lad he was! The gold jewelery is very tricky to find as it mimics foil, nickle and pultab meter readings.Location would be the ticket to find gold, just look around old swimin hole, front yards of old high schools etc. you get the idea.and dig the low coductor readings.,,,,,,just might get you banner of a find.........good luck..........Hombre
Steve,
I didn't see the part about the jewelry the first time. Well if you want small jewelry you have to dig it all. Some small gold will hit on iron. But like you already said. Set your disc to just knock out a small nail. This will let you pick up most gold jewelry. The setting is usually about the 9 o'clock setting on the disc knob.
Kenny
I didn't see the part about the jewelry the first time. Well if you want small jewelry you have to dig it all. Some small gold will hit on iron. But like you already said. Set your disc to just knock out a small nail. This will let you pick up most gold jewelry. The setting is usually about the 9 o'clock setting on the disc knob.
Kenny
oldandtired
Member
Used to be White's classic detectors with preset ground balance, were factory set just slightly positive to a mineral sample. Can't remember what the mineral was at the moment, I'm thinking ferrite, "iron oxide" this usually gave the best results in "normal ground" but due to the positive bias could cause some problems in black sand, conductive ground, the black sand switch lowers the ground balance slightly, to try to achieve a more neutral ground balance when detecting in mineralized areas.
You can check how much this affects your discrimination settings by laying a nickle on the ground and sweeping the coil over it, adjusting your discrimination until the nickle just starts to break up, then flip the black sand switch on and see how much it changes. The classics can be manually ground balanced if necessary with a small screwdriver. or like the others said you can have the mod added.
Good luck with your machine!!
You can check how much this affects your discrimination settings by laying a nickle on the ground and sweeping the coil over it, adjusting your discrimination until the nickle just starts to break up, then flip the black sand switch on and see how much it changes. The classics can be manually ground balanced if necessary with a small screwdriver. or like the others said you can have the mod added.
Good luck with your machine!!
thebeatmachine
Member
All the black sand switch does is lomer the discrimination a bit. It's the same as turning the discrimination knob down a notch. It is kind od a gimic feature. I use a 5.3 coil becasue it sees smaller items, The clicks on nails advice is all true because a deeper ring or nickle will get cut out in the ground, where it will be acepted in the air. So you are compisating by going below the ring setting for this.
First, let me say that I am going to be a bit biased as I have found the Classic III SL, Classic ID, IDX and IDX Pro to be top-quality detectors and excellent performers in a wide range of hunting applications. I am also biased when I mention the "Mr. Bill" mods because I have made use of all of these models with and with-out the mods and, to get the most and best performance from any of these, the modifications are a must-have. Again, my biased, personal opinion.
I know you've had a White's Classic ID so let me start there and comment on the features of the IDX you have on the way.
The Classic series in general: I like them and I wish White's would have simply paid them more attention and done some revisions of their own. This is especially true of the audio circuitry because, for me, the headphone circuitry has a somewhat bassy audio. With a 'standard' headphone and my bad hearing, it sounds muffled or too like there's too much bass adjustment. In Tesoro lingo (you'll get this one
) it is like the Low Tone Vaquero and such and many of us p[refer the high-tone version because we can hear it better. More in the treble range rather than too much bass of the standard, lower audio frequency offerings, in a rough sort of description.
i especially notice the audio difference if I have been hunting with an XLT or XL pro or MXT or M6 or Bandido II
I know you've had a White's Classic ID so let me start there and comment on the features of the IDX you have on the way.
The Classic series in general: I like them and I wish White's would have simply paid them more attention and done some revisions of their own. This is especially true of the audio circuitry because, for me, the headphone circuitry has a somewhat bassy audio. With a 'standard' headphone and my bad hearing, it sounds muffled or too like there's too much bass adjustment. In Tesoro lingo (you'll get this one
) it is like the Low Tone Vaquero and such and many of us p[refer the high-tone version because we can hear it better. More in the treble range rather than too much bass of the standard, lower audio frequency offerings, in a rough sort of description.i especially notice the audio difference if I have been hunting with an XLT or XL pro or MXT or M6 or Bandido II
oldandtired
Member
I was just posted the theory for the black sand switch ability to deal with ground, and not it's detailed, or actual function. That being, that it is supposed to "help compensate" for mineralized ground, and improve performance with out having to adjust the actual ground balance trimmer. But, then again, I always looked at ground elimination, and rejection as discriminating out the ground minerals, using discrimination, even though the ground elimination, and user discrimination are separate on the circuit.
I made the statement about the nickle, to illustrate the fact that it does change the discrimination range, but after re reading the original post, I should have said to use a very small ring, since he was mainly interested in the ability to detect jewelry.
Looking back I suppose I should have explained, using the TR type detector, discrimination, and ground exclusion balance adjustment better, and it's effect on detector response, and performance, especially dealing with low conductive "an items ability to conduct electrical current",items and that an improperly adjusted ground balance to far positive or neutral, can affect not only your "all metal mode", be it motion or non motion, but your target ID, discrimination, depth ability and sensitivity. The detectors ability to transmit and receive, is affected by, any conductive, ground minerals, EMI,natural occurring electrolytes ie, wet salt in sand, and other phenomena. And the difference in discrimination, and ranges, a full range discrimination, would actually be able to accept all conductive items at it's lowest setting and reject all conductive items at it's highest setting. In reality a metal detector is designed by it's very nature to detect metal, as such, any elimination, or discrimination, of one type of metal, it's oxides etc. will affect it's ability to detect other metals, when discriminating out a conductive item, you are limiting, blocking, or altering, some of the receive signal to the operator indicator, ie speaker, and that cannot be avoided, this includes eliminating any conductive item, be it ground minerals, or highly conductive items, ie, US silver dollar. Also, when using your detector remember that low conductive items in large mass ie, a man hole cover, may react as a higher conductive item due to it's ability to reflect a large amount of the transmitted signal. Actuall TR metal detecting discrimination circuits, "to the best of my knowledge" deal within a range of conductivity, So, you may see a discrimination control marked, ferrous, "contains or made of iron" or, non ferrous "is not made of, or contains iron", the ferrous item will generally have a lower conductivity than a non ferrous item.
Anyhow, you did a great job of explaining the features of the Classic series, guess I was one of those old "not so knowledgeable dealers"
HH.James
I made the statement about the nickle, to illustrate the fact that it does change the discrimination range, but after re reading the original post, I should have said to use a very small ring, since he was mainly interested in the ability to detect jewelry.
Looking back I suppose I should have explained, using the TR type detector, discrimination, and ground exclusion balance adjustment better, and it's effect on detector response, and performance, especially dealing with low conductive "an items ability to conduct electrical current",items and that an improperly adjusted ground balance to far positive or neutral, can affect not only your "all metal mode", be it motion or non motion, but your target ID, discrimination, depth ability and sensitivity. The detectors ability to transmit and receive, is affected by, any conductive, ground minerals, EMI,natural occurring electrolytes ie, wet salt in sand, and other phenomena. And the difference in discrimination, and ranges, a full range discrimination, would actually be able to accept all conductive items at it's lowest setting and reject all conductive items at it's highest setting. In reality a metal detector is designed by it's very nature to detect metal, as such, any elimination, or discrimination, of one type of metal, it's oxides etc. will affect it's ability to detect other metals, when discriminating out a conductive item, you are limiting, blocking, or altering, some of the receive signal to the operator indicator, ie speaker, and that cannot be avoided, this includes eliminating any conductive item, be it ground minerals, or highly conductive items, ie, US silver dollar. Also, when using your detector remember that low conductive items in large mass ie, a man hole cover, may react as a higher conductive item due to it's ability to reflect a large amount of the transmitted signal. Actuall TR metal detecting discrimination circuits, "to the best of my knowledge" deal within a range of conductivity, So, you may see a discrimination control marked, ferrous, "contains or made of iron" or, non ferrous "is not made of, or contains iron", the ferrous item will generally have a lower conductivity than a non ferrous item.
Anyhow, you did a great job of explaining the features of the Classic series, guess I was one of those old "not so knowledgeable dealers"
HH.James
models using discrimination such as Tesoro-termed ED-180, or just an all metal accept as on the Classic III SL, IDX/IDX Pro, MXT, M6, etc., I usually try to make sure I use the reference to full-range acceptance, and not full-range discrimination. I've caught myself slipping a time or two but I am a to-finger typist. It takes me forever to make most posts, or so it seems, and I don't always get them proof read before posting I try, but miss things now and then.
So, you are quite correct, these ARE metal detectors and it would be senseless to make them discriminate (reject) everything. Only the more annoying low-end conductors, and principally iron trash. Thus, ED-180/All Metal refers to the full range of acceptance and not full range rejection.
As for dealers, there are those who are quite experienced and knowledgeable, those who think they are, those who really know very little, and those that just sell stuff and don't detect much (if any) at all. They make no effort to learn or to help the consumer. Those latter couple of classes of dealers are the ones I was referring to. Just too many of them out there.
None of us are perfect, and there's no perfect detector, but as long as posters like you and me and keep trying to help others, then newcomers to the hobby or a particular brand will learn. Along the way I try to learn a bit myself.
Monte
So, you are quite correct, these ARE metal detectors and it would be senseless to make them discriminate (reject) everything. Only the more annoying low-end conductors, and principally iron trash. Thus, ED-180/All Metal refers to the full range of acceptance and not full range rejection.
As for dealers, there are those who are quite experienced and knowledgeable, those who think they are, those who really know very little, and those that just sell stuff and don't detect much (if any) at all. They make no effort to learn or to help the consumer. Those latter couple of classes of dealers are the ones I was referring to. Just too many of them out there.
None of us are perfect, and there's no perfect detector, but as long as posters like you and me and keep trying to help others, then newcomers to the hobby or a particular brand will learn. Along the way I try to learn a bit myself.
Monte
Sorry it took so long to jump in and thank everyone. My internet connection has been intermittent to say the least. I learned alot, thanks fellas ,once again Monte you came through for me and explain where the average guy such as myyself can understand. Steve.
P.S. I bought the Classic IDX because I got a good deal on it, I just sold it and made alittle $$$ I bought a White's Classic III with Mr. Bill's mods. of the forum. Always wanted to see how much better the mods. make, even though it is very minor I really like how White's has the trigger pinpoint switch.
P.S. I bought the Classic IDX because I got a good deal on it, I just sold it and made alittle $$$ I bought a White's Classic III with Mr. Bill's mods. of the forum. Always wanted to see how much better the mods. make, even though it is very minor I really like how White's has the trigger pinpoint switch.
oldandtired
Member
I need to watch a little better when I post things, my brain just don't function to quick anymore and needs some time to warm up. You did a great job explaining the classics!
Actually, one of the main reasons I closed my dealership was lack of support some dealers gave their customers, I used to have a 800 number, and I spent more time on the phone helping other dealers customers out then selling detectors. Usually I would just tell them to bring the detector over and, we would take it out and play around for a while, so they could get the hang of their new detector. I don't mind helping folks out, I've had a lot of people help me in the past, (I used to bug the heck out of some those guys in the old White's videos), just not much profit in it, and it doesn't help pay for the 30 new detectors you got hanging on the wall for sale.
I just recently re signed up for this forum, was a poster on here for a long time, well since about 8 or 9 years, any way, but couldn't remember what email I used to sign up originally, so just set up a new user name and pass word. That tells you how good my mind is.
Sorry to get off subject in this thread, and babble on.
Thanks again.....James
Actually, one of the main reasons I closed my dealership was lack of support some dealers gave their customers, I used to have a 800 number, and I spent more time on the phone helping other dealers customers out then selling detectors. Usually I would just tell them to bring the detector over and, we would take it out and play around for a while, so they could get the hang of their new detector. I don't mind helping folks out, I've had a lot of people help me in the past, (I used to bug the heck out of some those guys in the old White's videos), just not much profit in it, and it doesn't help pay for the 30 new detectors you got hanging on the wall for sale.
I just recently re signed up for this forum, was a poster on here for a long time, well since about 8 or 9 years, any way, but couldn't remember what email I used to sign up originally, so just set up a new user name and pass word. That tells you how good my mind is.
Sorry to get off subject in this thread, and babble on.
Thanks again.....James
boxofchocolates
New member
new here what are mr bills mods? ihave a whites bhib and gta500 any info apreciated
boxofchocolates
New member
Im new here what are mr bills mods? i have a bhid and a gta 500