WHISPERS

[aussiedigger]

G day all from down under
Must firstly say I'm enjoying my CTX 3030 heaps.
Sorry if this question has been asked before or if I've posted in the wrong section.

But coming from a Excalibur 11 and having used one for over 7 years the the thing I miss most are the whispers and very soft sounds when onto something really deep.
Is there a way of setting the CTX up the same way at the moment I get the same audio for any depth and there are no whispers to speak of. ( I miss them )
I'm using quality headphones ( grey Ghost ) and feel I must be doing something wrong.Or more to the point missing those really deep whispers that can mean gold
Or is there no such thing as whispers with this range of detector is every thing just amplified.?

Thanks ( AD )

 

["Dr.Tones"]

Try adjusting your gain setting to lower level.

 

[aussiedigger]

Try adjusting your gain setting to lower level.

Thanks but
What sort of number do you suggest, barley audible? I must admit mines always fairly high.

 

["Dr.Tones"]

I can't remember what the default setting is but I do know that the closer to 30 you get the more evey signal will sound the same no matter how deep, shallow big or small. Try 18-20? I've been using 20 and I find that the deeper coins are slightly softer sounding but still loud enough that I'm not worried about missing them. Just remember although the whispers can be an indication of a deep target, those whispers have to be loud enough to overcome your threshold.

 

[aussiedigger]

I can't remember what the default setting is but I do know that the closer to 30 you get the more evey signal will sound the same no matter how deep, shallow big or small. Try 18-20? I've been using 20 and I find that the deeper coins are slightly softer sounding but still loud enough that I'm not worried about missing them. Just remember although the whispers can be an indication of a deep target, those whispers have to be loud enough to overcome your threshold.

Thankyou will start playing around with those settings while out hunting a park tonight.

 

[GateKeeper]

Why do you want to hear a whisper? That doesn't make any sense. It really doesn't. Let me explain. Just the other evening, I had a 10 inch target that was barely audible. I had the gain set at 30. I then wanted to do a test on the WHISPER signals that some guys preach on a deeper target, so I set the gain down to 15. NOTHING. Then I bumped it up to 20, NOTHING. I proceeded upward, nothing till I hit the target with the gain @ 28, and even then it was really hard to hear. I guess if you really want to hear a signal as a whisper, then lower the gain, but I will tell you this. I WAS NOT digging deeper targets over 7 inches till I maxed out the gain to 30. This has been my experience and my hunting buddies as well. I'm still fairly young at 45, my hearing is still good, and I'm using great headphones. With that being said, you might want to rethink the whole WHISPER idea. If I had the gain any lower, I would have mised that target.

My settings at the time were this............. The sensistivity was set at Auto +3 and it was running at 25 in sandy soil. Ferrous Coin. The only discrimination I had was ferrous line 35. Threshold was pretty low at 21. 11 inch stock coil. Low trash and low iron enviroment.

 

[Buried Crap NJ]

I am not certain this is where Aussiedigger was going with his question. But I though the question was more based on threshold breaks? Coming over from an Excalibur threshold is everything, too high, lost targets too low,lost targets. The CTX 3030 has a threshold that really is hard to hear in the beach enviroment. Not so in the dirt. I too was lost, searching for low whispers signals from the start. I ask this very same type question back in May. I know now why it wasn't answered then. (I will answer that in a separate post) Great res ponces to the gain issue and how it affect the target strength, really helpful to those never using a detector with gain!I have been using Black widows with gel cels on the beach from the beginning. I was able to hear the threshold with a lower setting (beach) dirt I was able to cut it in half! I have still not been able to find a set of water proof headphones with a volume needed for the beach. I do have info on how to make the GG louder! I was to say the least very confused by lack of target strength change regardless of depth. To me it was a beep and dig machine! Having spend so many hours with the machine now (99% beach) I have learned how to make the machine work for me! I read and followed many post that stated if the target doesn't repeat from two different direction don't dig its trash?
I said wow what a deal so many times I have dug iffy signals and they were gold no more of that, there all going to be clear and strong. Well I can tell you that that is so untrue. I have taken many hours to stop and check those non repeatable barley audible targets on the beach.
( its really easy to take three scoops) many have been very deep coins a few were gold earrings and some were trash! I would not like to dig that deep in the dirt to find trash as its takes alot of effort to do so! I have found the 3030 loves to go slow it really shines when use this way. Its a great machine when you have spend some time with this type machine. I have been in the dirt with it since my beaches are closed do to the hurricane. I have to say its a pleasure to use! I still haven't found out how the threshold affects the 3030?

BCNJ

 

[aussiedigger]

This is getting interesting and there a bit of reading to absorb Im still in in the any doubt dig phase. ( beach or dirt )
Thanks so much for all your input so far folks.

 

[Bromly]

I also wanted to hunt the whisper sounds with my ctx at first. But like others have said, when on the beach it's very hard to do. So I changed my settings to 30gain and 30thresh and 25vol. I've tested the thresh many times on super deep targets. I can crank it to 40 or down to 10 "I can't even hear it at 10" and the numbers stay the same on any deep target.
Large or small targets, the ctx doesn't care where the thresh is at. I know that goes against the norm, coming from hundreds of hours with PI machines, GT's, Excals etc. I think the threshold on the ctx is just there for our personal hearing capabilities.
Minelabs and others may disagree with me. But that has been my experience.Also If I hit a coin say around the 15-16" range I can sometimes hear the threshold drop out and no other action comes through the headphones or across the screen. But after I take a scoop, " BAM " the numbers and corresponding numbers will appear.
The ctx is always cracking me up, it's deeper then my DF and gives accurate ID. " But none of this was true until after the saltwater download "

HH
Ken

 

[aussiedigger]

I also wanted to hunt the whisper sounds with my ctx at first. But like others have said, when on the beach it's very hard to do. So I changed my settings to 30gain and 30thresh and 25vol. I've tested the thresh many times on super deep targets. I can crank it to 40 or down to 10 "I can't even hear it at 10" and the numbers stay the same on any deep target.
Large or small targets, the ctx doesn't care where the thresh is at. I know that goes against the norm, coming from hundreds of hours with PI machines, GT's, Excals etc. I think the threshold on the ctx is just there for our personal hearing capabilities.
Minelabs and others may disagree with me. But that has been my experience.Also If I hit a coin say around the 15-16" range I can sometimes hear the threshold drop out and no other action comes through the headphones or across the screen. But after I take a scoop, " BAM " the numbers and corresponding numbers will appear.
The ctx is always cracking me up, it's deeper then my DF and gives accurate ID. " But none of this was true until after the saltwater download "

HH
Ken

Interesting reading I also could not agree more with your last statement. Definitely will be trying your settings too
Thanks

 

[SandShaker]

I can simply tell you this about the beach: If it double beeps dig it! Ive pulled gold at 12.01, 12.15, 12.20, 12.26 AND YES ...... at the dreaded 12.36... OH that 12.36.. the cursed penny.. Having come from the excal, I've dug literally thousands of pennies. You simply can't ignore them. Tones are to close to gold. When I bought the CTX I was told that pennies could be POSITIVELY discrim'd out. This is true but you all know the trouble of the penny. Add the ID of a fresh to mildly corroded penny, you also get to deal with corroded ones that hit anywhere from 12.20 to 12.46. I will also NEVER pass up a quarter unless I'm up to my neck in waves and or the water is very rough and the quarter is very deep in that water. I've learned to pass dimes. Yes, it's money, but on my beaches dimes are everywhere and unless it's 6 or less inches I'll pass it since gold doesn't hit 12.40.
Now to depth: I run my CTX at full vol (30) , gain of 27, thres 27, thres pitch 20, beach pattern 1, deep on, saltwater on, response pitch hold, low trash, auto +3, I also prefer to run my sounds backwards. high tones for gold and low for junk. i hear highs better.. I also run ear buds with the wireless module. You can't get louder than that! I also mostly hunt the beach with my 17" coil. It's harder than the 11 to PP but it goes DEEP.
As normal I use my ears. I listen for a solid blip blip. Then I look at the ID. Anything in the 9's or 10's I pass. 11's I investigate. 12's I investigate harder. I've messed with thres breaks/nulls, but it's pretty much always iron. I've seen a nickel at 11.15 turn to a 12.15 when you dig at it. Most deep targets start off at an 11.x. Also if you have a solid target, you dig at it and it disappears. Don't give up on it. Esp in the water. Dig another scoop or two. You'll be surprised. Sometimes it will fold over and the target "disappears". Same with most any detector. I to can't figure out faints/whispers with the CTX. Either you got a target, or you don't.

 

[glenn3-88]

I can simply tell you this about the beach: If it double beeps dig it! Ive pulled gold at 12.01, 12.15, 12.20, 12.26 AND YES ...... at the dreaded 12.36... OH that 12.36.. the cursed penny.. Having come from the excal, I've dug literally thousands of pennies. You simply can't ignore them. Tones are to close to gold. When I bought the CTX I was told that pennies could be POSITIVELY discrim'd out. This is true but you all know the trouble of the penny. Add the ID of a fresh to mildly corroded penny, you also get to deal with corroded ones that hit anywhere from 12.20 to 12.46. I will also NEVER pass up a quarter unless I'm up to my neck in waves and or the water is very rough and the quarter is very deep in that water. I've learned to pass dimes. Yes, it's money, but on my beaches dimes are everywhere and unless it's 6 or less inches I'll pass it since gold doesn't hit 12.40.
Now to depth: I run my CTX at full vol (30) , gain of 27, thres 27, thres pitch 20, beach pattern 1, deep on, saltwater on, response pitch hold, low trash, auto +3, I also prefer to run my sounds backwards. high tones for gold and low for junk. i hear highs better.. I also run ear buds with the wireless module. You can't get louder than that! I also mostly hunt the beach with my 17" coil. It's harder than the 11 to PP but it goes DEEP.
As normal I use my ears. I listen for a solid blip blip. Then I look at the ID. Anything in the 9's or 10's I pass. 11's I investigate. 12's I investigate harder. I've messed with thres breaks/nulls, but it's pretty much always iron. I've seen a nickel at 11.15 turn to a 12.15 when you dig at it. Most deep targets start off at an 11.x. Also if you have a solid target, you dig at it and it disappears. Don't give up on it. Esp in the water. Dig another scoop or two. You'll be surprised. Sometimes it will fold over and the target "disappears". Same with most any detector. I to can't figure out faints/whispers with the CTX. Either you got a target, or you don't.

12/09

[attachment 324640 IMG_1311450x3372.jpg]

 

[SandShaker]

very nice find!

 

[bklein]

Some things to try for wet sand hunting: don't use ferrous/coin - it seems to give good ID's to junk. See for yourself on a bottlecap.
Along with manual control of gain you could try manual control of Noise Cancel. Seems it is wide open at 11 and closes down as you set towards 1. Set out a bobbypin on the sand and try the full range - let me know what you discover.

 

[denny]

I don't think the ctx could be set up for whispers. I hear a little peep on deep or small targets. Takes some getting used to.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Some things to try for wet sand hunting: don't use ferrous/coin - it seems to give good ID's to junk. See for yourself on a bottlecap.
Along with manual control of gain you could try manual control of Noise Cancel. Seems it is wide open at 11 and closes down as you set towards 1. Set out a bobbypin on the sand and try the full range - let me know what you discover.

You continually post this about the noise cancel but it is completely wrong! Noise cancel does NOT work like that.The detector has a set of variations on it's base frequencies used. When you tell it to automatically noise cancel, the detector listens to each set of variations to see which has the least amount of background noise interference. You can manually choose one of those settings, but you are purely guessing if it is going to help or not. There is absolutely nothing in the noise cancel feature that is "open" or "closed".

 

[bklein]

I understand the purpose of noise cancel but if you think I'm full of it you haven't tried the experiment on a bobby pin. Either that or our CTX's are way different. Did you contest my suggestion on another thread because we can discuss it there if you like. You appear to suggest that the tx signal varies with NC setting. I say it is more likely the tx signal is not changing but the rx filtering changes with NC value. My tests in manual NC showed a linear relationship. I actually have an HP spectrum analyzer to check this but my experience with the manual tests was repeatable for me so I had no doubts. This is not surprising to me as with the GP series there are mode settings to reduce EMI and these negatively affect detection but get you by in the noisy environment. You of course know that changes in tx frequency affects the optimization of target signals - in general higher freq finds smaller gold, etc. So I know my test results and know that any change in tx or rx bandpass frequency will affect target detection.
I think it highly unlikely that NC setting in a noiseless environment has no effect on target detection.
I'm sure you have experienced days with the CTX where it was just HOT(!) and you were finding small aluminum nuggets at two feet depth. I am wondering if NC setting has to do with it - not just gain setting.

 

[Jason in Enid]

I never said changes in NC setting didn't have an affect on target response, but we don't hunt inside a faraday cage. Every time we step outside the house the EMI around us has changed. A NC channel of 6 may be the hot ticket today, but may be seriously lacking tomorrow.

Whether the NC feature changes the Tx side or the RX side isn't important. My point was that a shift of frequencies is not opening or closing anything. Your analogy implied that is was akin to a linear trim pot which is completely erroneous.

 

[bklein]

The reason I use the term linear is because the depth/ sensitivity to the bobbypin is linear with the NC setting. Meaning detection gets better as the NC number gets higher. Not that any of us want to detect bobbypins! - I did not follow-up with further tests say of small gold or silver items to see if the same thing occurs. What is true for bobbypins may not be true for other targets. Have you played around with manual NC? There really isn't a lot of EMI at the waterline of a long stretch of beach! I've had EMI near beach homes etc. and the NC gets rid of a lot of it but not sure it detects targets optimally. i posted my findings hoping to help and have others investigate - hopefully further - to see if small "good" targets are affected by NC setting.
I am wondering if the CTX firmware NC routine puts priority on finding the best EMI filtering but at the expense of target sensitivity. I only used bobbypins because I was noticing some days I'd find a lot of them other days none - on the same beach. Same goes for bottlecaps. I then discovered how ferrous/coin pushes their ID's into the "good" target ID areas.
If this guy wants "knobs to turn" for whispers I'm thinking NC might be one of them.
It all depends how bad EMI is where we hunt. If none it may be wortwhile trying manual NC.

 

[Jason in Enid]

Ahm but there is always EMI around us. We live in a world of EMI. We have varying levels of solar flare interference, radio towers around us broadcasting huge range of radio (hog and low), microwave, cell phone, analog and digital signals, satellite transmissions, as well as vehicles with radio broadcasting (fire, police, commercial).

I have never tried air testing articles because it has been well documented that the FBS technology does not perform as well in air compared to in the ground (this was the reason the BEACH mode was put in after initial release). I'm also not steady enough to wave items across my coil at steady distances to measure any real change. I just depend on the engineers to tell us how the features function.

This has been a good discussion!