Which machine has the most best target ID?

[Idaho-Marke]

Started with an MXT a long time ago and the target ID would bounce all over the place and very rarely lock on. Went to an xterra 70 and that was a little better. Then a F75 and still unsatisfied with the target ID. Maybe this is the best that it gets. I pretty much dig everything anyway, but I note there are a lot of new machines out there and it's time to upgrade (or not!)

So, I'm getting older and I don't want to dig everything anymore. I mostly hunt coins, but also like to hit the gold fields when I'm in the areas gold is found. I bought the F75 for target separation (got the small coil) and I'm considering sending it in for the big upgrade, but thought I'd get some thoughts if other machines might be better at target ID and separation from the wisdom on these boards.

So what do you say? Should I keep the F75 and get the upgrade or look at some other machines. Think I'm selling the Xterra 70 as this has been my back up for a while and it's getting old.

What machines do you suggest? Thanks for your time.

 

[Mega]

I very rarely use target ID,audio wins hands down and is so much more reliable,even when using my Deus the controller stays in my truck,also audio is so much more reliable at greater depth than what a screen can provide.

Of course this is just my personal preference and why i use a decent set of headphones,screens can provide some very good information but its not reliable enough just to make a dig or no dig decision on its own.

 

[Dave J.]

There's no one right answer to your question, Marke. How well target ID "works" depends on more than just the machine, it also depends on what kinds of conditions you search in, what you're looking and not looking for, how you use the machine, and what your expectations are.

And, then there's the matter of audio presentation which conveys (or doesn't convey) additional information about the target. Some people do best with a good "beep and dig" machine that either has no visual ID, or they mostly ignore it.

On "deep silver" in areas without a lot of trash, multifrequency machines usually beat singlefrequency machines on target ID. Where there's a lot of iron trash, single-frequency machines usually do better although not necessarily with visual target ID, it's more a matter of what you hear and don't hear. And the multifrequency machines are useless for gold prospecting.

The F75 is a very good general-purpose machine. It's not the only one such, there are lots of others too (the MXT for example) with their own pros and cons. If you're on a quest to find the one machine that does everything well and does it better than the F75, that machine doesn't exist. The diehard detectorists who can afford to do so, own several machines that excel at certain things, and the unit that's in the car or truck all the time is as likely as not to be one of our under-$500 units -- some of which have performance nearly the equal of machines costing several times as much and are easier to use as well.

 

[Southwind]

For target ID I break it down in two dimensions.

1. Target ID accuracy at depth.
2. Target ID accuracy by variance.

Out of all the detectors I have owned the CTX would rate at the top for Target ID Accuracy at depth. Both the E-Trac & CTX make identifying a deep copper or silver coin pretty easy even for a first time user. That is probably why they are so popular.

As far as Target ID accuracy by variance, and by that I mean the ability to easily tell a clad dime from a silver by the numbers, would be the Whites family. The DFX is a great example. Not really super deep but very accurate target ID. Probably because of the 191 target segments. 95 just in the Conductive scale. Few detectors are able to tell you the difference between one of those pesky square pull tabs and a nickle as well as the DFX.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Good answer. I agree: The explorer series are about the best there is for TID on deep high conductors. At depth anyhow. For shallower TID's , I used to love my Whites Eagle SLII. But it lacked the depth that the explorers provide.

 

[cclemc]

[size=medium]Dave, thanks for the answer above. It was clarifying for me. Will you (or anyone with lots of experience) please help me with a question? I have the older style T2 (green) with no modifications and usually hunt old logging sites for indian head pennies. I use the 5" coil and tried all kinds of different settings but still have not been that successful and I know there are targets to be found because my hunting partner finds them much more often than me (he has a minelab explorer and I cannot afford that). I was wondering if the G2 would be a better choice to find old pennies in a very trashy (iron) field. I do not mind using mainly audio signals because the target id is always jumping around anyway. Any other advice or suggestions would be appreciated also. Thank you for your time.
Clem.[/size]
Ps. I read in a different post that there was a forum for detector comparisons but I can't find it. Has it been cancelled or is it at a different website?

 

[REVIER]

[size=medium]Dave, thanks for the answer above. It was clarifying for me. Will you (or anyone with lots of experience) please help me with a question? I have the older style T2 (green) with no modifications and usually hunt old logging sites for indian head pennies. I use the 5" coil and tried all kinds of different settings but still have not been that successful and I know there are targets to be found because my hunting partner finds them much more often than me (he has a minelab explorer and I cannot afford that). I was wondering if the G2 would be a better choice to find old pennies in a very trashy (iron) field. I do not mind using mainly audio signals because the target id is always jumping around anyway. Any other advice or suggestions would be appreciated also. Thank you for your time.
Clem.[/size]
Ps. I read in a different post that there was a forum for detector comparisons but I can't find it. Has it been cancelled or is it at a different website?

Could you possibly list a few of those settings you have tried?
Maybe post a new thread about this and mentioning logging sites and the T2 so we will notice.
Are those logging areas full of iron, have mineralized soil, other site conditions.

There might be some settings we can suggest that you have not tried and might work well.
I have been successful using a similar F70 in both very mild soil and extremely mineralized iron infested soil, in severe trash and all levels of iron up to the ridiculous and got pretty good at picking out good targets deep with good ID's.
Sometimes I use some really out of the box thinking on settings because I am big on tweaking and experimenting, in my very bad soil I hunt now I actually had to learn a whole new language and set of behaviors but once I did I started finding some great bucket list items that were missed by many others.
I have yet to find any site or any conditions my F70 could not conquer with the right settings and a little time learning to understand what I was seeing and hearing.

You got a great machine and also a great coil and you should be finding those IH's if they are there...you just need to learn to recognize them if you do and it might not be as obvious as you think.

 

[Dave J.]

[size=medium]Dave, thanks for the answer above. It was clarifying for me. Will you (or anyone with lots of experience) please help me with a question? I have the older style T2 (green) with no modifications and usually hunt old logging sites for indian head pennies. I use the 5" coil and tried all kinds of different settings but still have not been that successful and I know there are targets to be found because my hunting partner finds them much more often than me (he has a minelab explorer and I cannot afford that). I was wondering if the G2 would be a better choice to find old pennies in a very trashy (iron) field. I do not mind using mainly audio signals because the target id is always jumping around anyway. Any other advice or suggestions would be appreciated also. Thank you for your time.
Clem.[/size]
Ps. I read in a different post that there was a forum for detector comparisons but I can't find it. Has it been cancelled or is it at a different website?

The G2+ or F19 would probably be a little better on a site like that, but you've already got a T2 which is pretty good (at one time it was the golden standard for such sites). So like REVIER suggests maybe all that's needed is for you to discover some new trick for using it that makes a significant difference. It might not even pertain to the machine itself,it might be a matter of more willingness to dig "iffy" targets, going a little slower, using a gold prospecting pick with magnet for retrieval to find that iron quick and move on, etc.

 

[Mike Hillis]

If you are a coin hunter and looking for target ID Locks.....Lets recap....

.....The MXT with it wide range of ID numbers is too jumpy for you.
.....The F75 with it's wide range of ID numbers is too jumpy for you.
.....The Xterra 70 with its much narrower range of ID number is too jumpy for you.

So the logical step would be a Fisher CZ-5 or CZ-3D unit. First off, it gives much better coin ID locks because 1) it has fewer segments to jump around in, and 2) the dual frequency design likes coins. It likes high conductive coins like those old coins you are after and goes deeper with less operator effort than your other units. It will tend to lock onto coins. It will do this even better than the Minelab FBS units. My recommendation would be to turn that Xterra 70 into a CZ-5 or a CZ-3D.

Regards the F75 upgrade...is it worth it for the extra features, I think so. The FA mode on the F75 is worth the upgrade all by itself. And the DST feature makes the F75 operable in more places than a non-upgraded model will be. However, the F75 upgrade isn't going to improve your target ID locks to the degree you are looking for.

If you want TID locks on coins you will have to specialize.

My nickel.
Good Luck.
Mike

 

[cclemc]

[size=medium]Thank you to everyone that responded Revier, I usually stick to the teknetics forum and try the setting suggestions made there. My ground balance usually ends up in the 70's and about two bars on the Fe scale, so I think the ground is not that mineralized. I will continue to try to do what you and Dave suggest and experiment with my technique. I was just wondering if the G2 could make much of a difference but it sounds like that's not the case. It is probably me. I plan on upgrading to a T2SE anyway for the boost but it sounds like I need to learn the machine I have better first. Thanks again all for the input. Does anyone know where that detector comparison site/forum is?
Clem[/size]

 

[Southwind]

it has fewer segments to jump around in

Just a question Mike, but wouldn't fewer segments = less precision/reliability? Just asking because it seems to not go along with what I've believed. I mean the accuracy could be good, but having fewer target ID segments would mean more junk would fall into the same target ID as the good. Is that correct? Just want to make sure my train of thought is right or wrong. That is what I've always liked about the Whites. Having 191 Target ID Segments. Even though only around 100 or so are actually for conductive targets.

I guess my example would be say a nickel vs a square pull tab. I know on the Whites a nickel can range from 18-21 but never 22 or 23. A pull tab of the same type can read anywhere from 18 to 23. Fewer segments would mean a smaller variance where a target could not be so precise.

Thanks

 

[Larry (IL)]

Ps. I read in a different post that there was a forum for detector comparisons but I can't find it. Has it been cancelled or is it at a different website?

You are in right forum to compare detectors.

 

[slingshot]

it has fewer segments to jump around in

Just a question Mike, but wouldn't fewer segments = less precision/reliability? Just asking because it seems to not go along with what I've believed. I mean the accuracy could be good, but having fewer target ID segments would mean more junk would fall into the same target ID as the good. Is that correct? Just want to make sure my train of thought is right or wrong. That is what I've always liked about the Whites. Having 191 Target ID Segments. Even though only around 100 or so are actually for conductive targets.

I guess my example would be say a nickel vs a square pull tab. I know on the Whites a nickel can range from 18-21 but never 22 or 23. A pull tab of the same type can read anywhere from 18 to 23. Fewer segments would mean a smaller variance where a target could not be so precise.

Thanks

I agree.

 

[Mike Hillis]

Hi Southwind!

The only issue with greater resolution is that the operator cannot control the detector well enough to give a consist TID. So the operator gets variable data with every sweep. Then the operator is required to process all that variable data mentally to determine if he wants to retreive it. Most metal detectors today allow the operator to drill down to the level of target id resolution they are comfortable with. 'Audio' buckets (tone id) give us the largest resolution, then the medium resolution of target id segments, then Phase ID number averaging, then lastly the finer resolution of a two or three digit Phase ID number.

If you have trouble processing the finest resolution a detector provides, then you have to backup to the next level. If the desire is a very consistant target id, that consistancy can only be accomplished by retreating to a larger bucket (less resolution).

So I don't disagree with you, Southwind. I just understand that sometimes precision isn't helpful or even required.

HH
Mike

 

[Southwind]

I just understand that sometimes precision isn't helpful or even required.

Agreed! But sometimes it is.

That is why I break it down in to two types. When I'm hunting our city park where the old keepers range from 6" down to 24" then precision isn't going to be of much good. For that I need accuracy. In my case I use the E-Trac. When I hunting trashy schools/parks/yards where most coins are 5" or less then precision keeps me from having to dig every single sound and still feel I'm cherry picking with good accuracy and not missing much.

The right tool for the right job as they say LOL.

 

[chuck ky]

If the target numbers are jumping around the audio i.d. will also jump around. On the t-2 some pennies will jump 79-81 but the 79 jump should be mid-tone and the 80-81 high.

 

[cclemc]

Thanks Larry, for answering my question about the comparison site.