Which Color Wires On An SEF 12x10 Go To Which Pins On Connector?

[Critterhunter]

I've traded my 15x12 for a non-working 12x10. The previous owner had informed me that the coil connector already had to be fixed once due to a short. Right now I don't see any short in the repaired solder joints at the pins but need to test further. It may be that one of the pins is bad or that there is a short elsewhere in the cable. Might even just be a dirty connector on one of the pins, as the prior owner said it creates static when you wiggle the plug. Before I go further or even plug this thing into my GT to confirm that it even has a problem, I need to confirm that the prior repair job soldered the right wires to the right pins. Does anybody know what the color codes are for these 12x10 SEF coils? I've searched the web and the beach forum but can't locate any information on the SEF color codes/pin layout. Also, if I had any diagnostic information on the proper ohm readings for various pins on these coils I could further confirm the pins that way as well as see if the problem is internal in the coil and not an external cable short. Thanks in advanced. I would figure there would be pin outs/color codes for these coils somewhere as you'd have to know that information to hook one up to an Excal.

 

[kered]

write out the pins you want metering and i'll check mine, don't particularly wish to cut off the heatshrink and open the connector to check the wire coulours to which pin unless its strictly necessary as i may wish to sell it

 

[Critterhunter]

Here's a repost to Kered in a PM in case anybody else can help and he doesn't get around to it (or doesn't have an ohm meter, which he probably does...)

I think I've back engineered this sucker to confirm that the pin outs are connected to the right wires. I found a schematic (see forum) for the Sovereign XMIT circuit inside the control box as well as the pre-amp inside the coil.

You don't need to take anything apart. I sure could use a few readings from you to confirm my coil is within specs. Note that these #'s aren't going to match what you see in the schematic because that's for a different Minelab coil. The only real way I can compare is to have somebody take a few readings for me.

Here's the pin out. Looking at the coil connector on your SEF coil put the notched side at the top. The pins will be as follows. At the one O'clock position is pin 1, then 2, then 3 (at 6PM on the connector), then 4, then 5 (still going clock wise). #6 is the middle pin.

1 & 2 Are Xmit Out. These go to both sides of the Xmit coil, so if you apply a continuity test (test light will work) across those two pins you should see the light light up as it should be very little in the way of ohms that won't stop the test light or continuity meter. Or, better yet...Measure the ohms at these two pins. I'm getting about 1.9 ohms. That will tell me more about if that's in specs, and if the proper two wires are hitched up here.

#3 and 6 are GND. I really need help on this one because pin 6 isn't hitched to anything. Put a test light to #3 and #6 and see if they are connected to each other. I'm not sure if these are isolated grounds or if they are grounded together. From the looks of the schematic they are grounded to each other at the pre-amp, but I get a little skittish when I'm looking at a home made schematic somebody threw up on the web.

#4 is RX IN from the coil. Touch this to #3 (GRND) using an ohm meter and I'm getting about 1.218 K Ohms. Try touching pin #4 to #6 as well, as that should confirm for me whether 3 and 6 are a common ground one more time just to be sure.

#5 is ID signal out. I assume this one isn't used for anything because it's probably the output voltage from the control box back to the ID meter to show a VDI #.

Problem is I'm missing a wire to pin 5 and 6. I'm pretty sure #5 isn't used in the coil cable, just between the control box and meter to transmit the VDI. #6 has solder on it and but no wire. I'm not sure if this was just jumpered to #3 (the other ground), or if it isn't needed (since 3 and 6 appear commonly grounded on the homemade schematic somebody made in the pic). I found another smaller black wire tucked away inside the cable which either isn't used (would have been in 5 if this water the meter's cable) or is meant to go to pin 6.

Here's the colors of the wires I'm finding on this SEF coil...1 Black, 2 Grey, 3 Yellow, 4 Brown, 5 (Unknown if used), #6 (Unknown if it should just jumper to five, isn't used, or should have the tiny black wire connected to it).

Mainly I can figure this stuff out by digging up some old Sovereign coil pin outs on the web and seeing exactly how they are wired up, then seeing if the previous person who repaired this thing hooked them up to the right wires....By taking the right readings to confirm the pin sequence is correct. By using that hand drawn schematic as a guide I'm fairly certain these are all hooked up right, so I mainly need to confirm that the ohm readings are in specs (That's a general way to check but I don't have any other test equipment handy at the moment).

Summarizing- My main concerns are if my numbers roughly match that of your 12x10 SEF, and if pin 3 and 6 should be jumpered together (common ground), or if #6 isn't needed, or finally if it should only be hooked up to that tiny seemingly not used black wire. Thanks in advance for any help.

I can assume a few things via this schematic but I don't trust something found on the web until I confirm it myself or find sources that back it up. I just printed out a few other threads which I think (haven't looked) should provide me with at least the proper pin outs, but this won't tell me anything about if my 12x10 is within certain spec readings. I'm just being overly cautious here because that's my nature. Never jump until you look twice, but I think I've got the proper pins down. A little more review and in particular Kered's help will firm things up.

Here's that schematic for those who are curious about the XMIT circuit inside your Sovereign as well as the internal coil pre-amp. Note that the pin out you see if reversed, since you are looking at the connector on the box and not the one on the coil...

Also, go on Geotech

 

[Critterhunter]

By the way, I've got a load of stuff printed out from a general search on the web. I haven't looked at it yet but I should be able to firm up these pin outs and what's what. Still, if you do the above readings for me I can confirm things more as well as make sure this coil is in specs. I don't want to fire it up on my machine until I'm sure it's looking right. Thanks again.

 

[Critterhunter]

I've pretty much figured out or confirmed the pin outs. These color codes are refering to the 12x10 SEF coil and not the Tornado.

1 (brown) & 2 (grey) is to the transmit coil and I'm pretty sure based on my readings that those wires are hitched up properly and that the Xmit coil is within specs. I took a reading on my 10" Tornado coil to compare ohm readings and both coils at pins 1 & 2 read 1.9 ohms.

For pins 4 (Reciever Coil Output, Brown) and 3 (Ground, Yellow) I got 1.218K Ohms for the 12x10 and 1.119K Ohms for the 10" Tornado, so I'd assume that's hitched up properly and that the RX coil circuit (see explaination below) looks to be OK.

I checked online and managed to find some general TX/RX info on Sovereign coil windings and the above numbers for both coils seem to be within specs. Really the RX coil reading isn't of the RX coil, but rather a general reading of the resistance of the entire circuit on that end because of the pre-amp and other components involved in that the RX coil alone can't be isolated unless you cut into the coil (see above schematic).

Pin 5 (No color since not used) is for sure the VDI output signal to the meter via the meter's cable from the control box. Since this signal isn't needed in the coil's cable this pin isn't used. That signal only takes place between the meter and the control box, obviously.

Here's where things are still a little dicey for me. What I can dig up shows pins #3 and #6 to be common grounds to each other. You can even see that referenced in the above hand written schematic. However, when I checked my 10" Tornado coil with an ohm meter it didn't show any connection between those two pins. Only #3 shows to be the ground. Fine, but then why am I seeing solder on pin 6 of this SEF coil's connector? Either the SEF requires something to be done with pin 6, or perhaps somebody made the mistake of hitching a wire up to that pin and then changed it.

As I've said, there is a tiny little black wire inside the cable as well that isn't hitched up to anything on the plug. I've attempted to check that wire for conductivity between it and pin #3 (to see if it indeed was a common ground tied to 3 at the pre-amp and thus meant for pin 6) and I'm not seeing anything continuuity here so they don't appear to be common grounds that are tied together. In fact, I'm not even sure if this little guy is even a wire. I need to look at it under a loop because by eye it looks like this tiny little black "wire" has a white fuzzy material inside it and not wire. Just need to sort this last bit out.

In summary, though...I'm pretty sure 6 isn't used for anything, that black "wire" isn't meant to be a wire (unless maybe it's a ground shield meant for the external connector case?), and that this plug's pin outs are all properly in place. Only thing left to do is wait for some input, but by then I'll probably already have powered this thing up and confirmed that there is a problem. Which comes first is based on how much patience I have.

What's also confusing is that some of the old material I've come acrossed says the pin 6 is used on certain coils, others say it's not, and so on.

Incidently, while digging through some dark deep corners of the web I came acrossed a cool little article on double D coil designs with some very interesting information about their traits. I'll try to post a link to that.

While I'm at it, I also came acrossed a blurb about some of the older aftermarket coils (CoilTecks maybe, or perhaps the initial Excellerator round coils?) not having a pre-amp on the RX coil. Somebody remarked that he was planning on putting an external pre-amp inline on the coil cable himself, and a much better one than what is currently in the coils that do have it (higher sensitivity, less noise, less target degradiation). That's a project I might be into experimenting with, since I didn't see any further remarks on progress being made. Something similar in a way to the external pre-amp Shaun's amp is using on the TX circuit, though on the RX coil this time to amplify the RX signal and not increase the field strength generated at the TX coil. I'd just need to figure out which older coils out there don't have a pre-amp. Anybody have a clue? I would figure they'd be rather poor performers, and that's why I'm thinking of the original round Excelerator coils from years ago?

 

[synthnut]

Did you contact Kelly Co to see if they could help you out ? .....Maybe they have a schematic for it laying around .....Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

I doubt it.

Hey, that's almost as good as "SEE THIS LINK". See how good that works?

 

[kered]

On my 12x10 i get readings of 1.9- 2.0ohm on the 200ohm scale pin 1and 2,
pin 4 to ground 3 1.21 on the 20k scale and 1029 on the 2000ohm scale,
no other readings between any other combination of pins or to the outside casing(shield) so it looks like they are the same as your readings.

Sorry for delay i had left the coil in my detector partners car and had to go get it.

 

[sweepdog]

n/t

 

[Critterhunter]

Kered, thank you very much for doing that. Looks like all is within specs so I guess I'll fire it up today and see if it does have a problem. If it's operation is erratic then I'll suspect a short in the cable elsewhere, or perhaps a bad internal pin in the connector. I also checked for any connection of pin #6 to the external metal casing on the plug on my 10" Tornado and didn't see anything, though your test on an actual 12x10 is much more reassurance as to that fact. I'll have to wiggle the cable in various places from the coil all the way to the plug to expose any potential shorts in the wire. You know, it could have been just that one of the connector pins wires was bumping up against another inside the plug when flexed a certain way. The repair job they did didn't have any heat shrink tubing on any of the wires inside the outter bigger heat shrink, or any other way (some put hot glue here) to prevent the solder points of the wires of the pins from coming in contact with each other.

Thanks again.

 

[Critterhunter]

Good news, I think! But first some initial bad news...

With Kered's last bit of technical info to double confirm my coil pin outs and specs, I decided it was time to see if indeed there was a problem with this coil and fire it up on my GT. Like I said, I had tested the pins at the face of the plug and at the solder points at the back for the wires. All looked well, so I was a little disappointed that I didn't see an obvious problem like a broken solder joint to fix. Everything checked out with an ohm meter, and that even involved doing a little wiggling of each pin/wire while checking them with it to make sure there wasn't a short that only showed up here and there.

Anyway, threw the coil on my GT but didn't heat shrink any of the exposed wiring at the back of the connector yet. A good tech never assumes there is no problem and puts everything back together with out running the device through some powered up testing first. I carefully made sure none of the wires was in danger of shorting to another with the lack of heat shrink and powered the GT up.

I get a lot of RF noise in my garage so I headed for the back yard but the unit was still falsing. That's not unusual because any of my coils run unstable in my backyard unless I lower sensitivity all the way in manual, which seems more stable than Auto when it's this bad, although Auto some times works better than lowest manual, probably due to the changing RF noise for that particular day.

Threw it into it's lowest manual setting and she calmed right down. Good so far. Swept around a few minutes and all seems well, with no instability or static that might indicate a problem exists. Now for the acid test. Started wiggling the cord from down near where it enters the coil and made my way up the cable with my hand, wiggling it in various spots as I went. All was well I thought until I got up near the connector. Instantly the GT started falsing badly. Hmmmm....Took my hand away and things got stable. Put my hand back on the wire near the connector and once again it's going nuts.

OK, obviously there's a short I missed with initial work bench testing. In a way I was very happy to see that, because I would have been suspicious and miffed if I couldn't find a reason for the prior owner's experience with static and unstable operation. Glad I didn't heat shrink everything back up yet at the connector. Off to the garage I go and start doing more intense ohm meter testing and stressing the wires/pins in various places near the connector to try to register any drastic changes in ohm readings with my meter. Well, after I had already checked three of the pins/wires and found nothing I was starting to think that it might be a short in the cable a few inches from the connector or something, so I'd need to probably start all over and check each one again. Still, I had the final pin to check, which was the black wire (pin 1).

Starting wiggling that pin and the wire in various spots when the pin broke off right at the surface of the black plug enclosure. I was barely putting any pressure on it so I knew right away it shouldn't have snapped like that and I had found the problem! On closer inspection under a loop I could see that this pin had obviously been overheated either in manufacturing or in repair and had caused the problem. There surface of the pin where the break was was very black to indicate it had been way overheating. Either somebody used a propane torch to do their soldering (which I do on occasion when I'm working on something big that needs a lot of heat), or they had used a really high wattage soldering iron. These pins are very thing and so don't have much ability to bleed off heat if they are really torched.

Off I got to Radio Shack in the hopes of another 6 pin plug, because where this one broke right at the surface of the black part of the plug wouldn't be easy to solder. No luck, Radio Shack only had an 8 pin plug in one of the parts drawers and it's pin holes wouldn't match up to mine. I still bought that plug because it had the same types of pins in it. When I got home I took a needle and pushed the rest of the bad pin out of that hole, pulled a pin out of the 8 pin plug, and then tapped it with a hammer in place into the old plug. Done!

Well, I thought I was done. In the process of tapping that pin in place one of the other pins fell apart in the same place. Now I really know somebody blasted this thing with too much heat, because there is no way I even touched that pin when tapping this new one in. Once again under a loop I could see that it was overly heated right at the surface of that plug. OK, let's really push hard on the rest of these suckers and see if any give. The rest were fine, so I tapped another pin in place on this other one two.

Soldered those wires back to the pins, heat shrinked each individual wire and put to isolate them from each other, then slid one big piece of heat shrink tubing over all of them and heated that up to secure things better. Slid the connector's metal outer casing back into place and put that back together, then slid yet another bigger piece of heat shrink tubing over the back side of the metal casing and shrunk that down with my heat gun. Factory finish back in place with no one the wiser. Let's see if it works, as there could be another short elsewhere.

Off to the backyard again and everything is stable. Wiggle the wire once again at the coil, working my way up to the connector. Get to the connector and hold my breath. Still fine! Now all I have to do is head out in the field and confirm all really is well, because I had this thing at lowest sensitivity due to the usual RF noise in my backyard. Once I tweak out sensitivity to something super high any random short in the cable will become much more apparent as it should cause the threshold to go wacky or static to appear. That's also the only well I'm know for sure if there isn't internally wrong with this coil, but by the looks of it I've got her fixed!

First rule we learned in HVAC school- Most problems are electrical. Second rule- Most electrical problems are not due to failed components, but rather due to bad connectors, shorts, or carbon build up on contact points. That's something to keep in mind when and if you ever have a problem with your detector. Take it apart (if it's not under warranty) and inspect all the components with a loop, looking for any hair line cracks in solder points and such. Wiggle parts as you go. That's also a good way to see if something will work (not much risk of shock in a detector, but just the same use a wooden tool so you don't short anything). Often if you wiggle in the right place you might be surprised to have it come back to life.

Off I got to the park to see what gives with this thing! By the way, when I was swinging it around in the backyard for the first time it was obvious that this coil is much lighter than the 15x12, not that that coil was too bad with the coil cover off. Lighter than the stock 10" coil with cover still on, in fact by I think .6 oz. Regardless, with no cover on this 12x10 it felt even lighter, and even much lighter than the stock 10" coil. I won't know for sure until I get my digital scale back and weigh it with and without coil cover, then add that to the coil weight chart I posted for people. I can say that my light weight GT feels even lighter to me than my Whites I've owned in the past. I'm probably about 4 pounds 2 ounces or so now by doing the math in my head.

Anyway, this coil like the 15x12 just looks and feels mean! And even with this coil my very brief initial impression is that I feel like I'm sweeping something with much better coverage than the stock 10" coil around, just like I did with the 15x12. I'm excited to explore it's potential in both depth, stability, and separation compared to my 10" Tornado stock coil. Off I go...

 

[Crispy Critter]

I like happy endings.

Thanks for the informative post. HH, Crispy

 

[Critterhunter]

Thanks. Just trying to relay the color code of these SEF coils for people in case somebody wants to throw one on an Excal hard wired. Also, I figured the troubleshooting steps and other info would be useful for people who have a non-working coil, even if it's not an SEF.

Plenty of people running SEFs on Excalibur's. What do they think, that if they keep the color codes secret none of their competition will be able to run an SEF on their machines? So much for that road block.

What I won't tolerate is people who look down their nose at others and have no intention to help them out, like those who imply that they know a trick in a message and then smugly hold back on sharing. If you don't intend to share then what's the point in hinting to the fact that you know something in the first place? Good for you, have a nice lonely life is the way I look at it.

I like to help who I can when I can and don't care for the greed factor in this hobby. Even have a friend who says a certain water hunter likes to cut him off and walk right over his coil in the water. Let him try that with me and he might never set foot on dry land again.
When people get past all that greed and competitive stuff they'll find they enjoy hunts so much better. I get just as much fun out of having a friend dig a probable silver coin I've hit on when he's not doing as well that day, and he returns the favor to me when I'm getting skunked too.

Enough ranting. Certain persons I was reasonably sure would know the pin colors didn't want to help. What's the point of a forum, then? Luckily Kered was willing to give me some readings off his SEF to firm up my findings, and I wanted to make real sure EVERYBODY knew this info because I'm sure certain persons wouldn't be very happy about it. Hope next time they go water hunting they have five guys around them all running SEF coils.

Noticed a mistake I made here. Pin # 1 is black. The brown wire is #4. I think I listed it the right way in the other messages, though.

1 (brown) & 2 (grey) is to the transmit coil and I'm pretty sure based on my readings that those wires are hitched up properly and that the Xmit coil is within specs. I took a reading on my 10" Tornado coil to compare ohm readings and both coils at pins 1 & 2 read 1.9 ohms.

 

[davespen]

Critterhunter,

I just installed an SEF on my Excal 2. I put together a wiring cross reference and will attach. Hope this helps.

Regards,
Dave

 

[Critterhunter]

It would have helped a week ago. As I said in the other thread, people could have used what I figured out and then went on Coil Tech's site to see which wires on the Excal go to what. They list all that info for them, just that I didn't know the color code for the SEF to test mine on my GT, so with Kered's help I figured all that out. Also, I believe Coil Tech lists various color code changes on various Excals, so you might want to update your chart with that info for those who have various Excals. They swapped a few colors and if you don't hook the right ones up then the threshold will go away.

 

[Critterhunter]

Got this message in an email that might pertain to some Excal wiring jobs. Not sure what he is refering to yet but I'm sure he'll chime in with more details if needed. I just know that the color codes I posted for my 12x10 plug pins were right, but I was just fixing the plug on the coil and not wiring to an Excal. The colors may have changed on these coils or he/she (?) might be refering to the Excal wire colors here. Need more details. Note above that I did correct two color codes a while back (noted in the above messages) that I mis-wrote the colors for initially.

As is the norm for me I'm keeping the person's name out when posting stuff from private messages. He/she can chime in and take credit or explain further if they like...

Hi there, I'm sorry but the wiring is wrong for a blue tube Excalibur. So wired the AM mode will not work right. I have the correct wiring at home and have wired the 12X10 SEF and 5 EXcellerator with Bulgin plugs. Everything works right. I believe the forum chart has the red and black wires crossed. Again I have the correct wiring at home to confirm that if you would like. I confirmed my wiring with MGM- Mr. Gold Master. He is an Excalibur Expert.

Hi, I believe the Sovereign/Excalibur SEF Coil Wiring Cross reference posted on this forum is wrong. So wired the AM mode does not work right. I'm experimenting with a different sequence and have found one that works. But I need to confirm it is right before posting.

The color codes I posted a while back are right, but the Excal has two different color codes for it's wires that can be found on Coilteck's (Doc's) website.

The wiring for the 12x10 SEF is right as mine has been working well on my GT. The color of the wires may have changed or you may be refering to the internal wiring of the Excal? But I'd post your findings if you could in the forum. I'll post your remarks there for others.