What's meant by "hunt by sound, not by numbers"?

[TrpnBils]

I've been using an Etrac for about 8 months now and have seen this over and over again on the forums, Andy's book, and have heard it from friends who use either the Etrac or the 3030. I do alright with my finds, and I hunt more with audio than with visual, but I know I've got a lot to learn yet although I'm definitely picking up slight nuances that I would have missed back in May or June. One of the things that always came to mind when I first started with this detector was (in multi-conductive) "if I listen to the audio only, each conductive number has its own pitch. If I hear Tone X, then Number Y will be showing up on the screen". However, there's more to "audio" than just pitch...there's quality of the tone, length of tone, etc.

So I'm curious to see if my interpretation of this chunk of advice is how it's meant to be. So when YOU tell somebody to hunt by audio and not by numbers on the screen, what do YOU mean?

 

[oneguy]

I've got about the same actual amount of time in on my etrac as I'm shut down for approx. 4 months each winter. Basically I "think" those comments about audio over visual are about right? There's sooooo much info in the audio where what the numbers show can be affected by so many other factors? Factors like emi, type of ground, trash, iron, depth, etc. etc. I'm no expert and far from mastering the beast but when in conductive it's audio first...then confirm or deny glancing at co #'s and maybe fe #. Most important to me are consistancy of audio then co #'s and if the first three sound consistant and repeatable, sound good, co #'s look good I rarely depend on any fe #'s.

Now in TTF, you are forced to go by the #'s on the screen (TTF's main drawback because half the time you can't see the screen on an etrac anyways....lol). Only other complaint I have in TTF is the 17fe breaking point....I've dug quite a few deepies with an fe of over 20+ and TTF would have gave them a low tone and I'd have missed them. I'll be trying to learn 4TF when spring arrives......

 

[TrpnBils]

I've thought about 4TF for that exact reason but I haven't put the time into it yet. Another goal for the new year...

 

[mascard1]

Screen whats that...Sens..up to manaul 26 ..gain 19...deep off ..fast on...listen for the nice quite high sound...you can tell the deep ones with gain at 19.....

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

Hunting by sound ... it's just the way the target feels.

After digging many thousands of targets you can often hear if a target is a good one or not.

Example - The E-Trac is a killer Nickel machine but poptops and other pieces of junk metal can come in on the same target I.D. numbers.
But - after you have dug a lot of Nickels with your machine you will be able to tell the more "solid tone" of a Nickel.
In my opinion - a good set of head phones and a smaller coil is a big help in this process.

It all comes down to how solid the target sounds as the coil passes over it - how clean it breaks, etc.
Of course you have to adjust your way of thinking depending on how old the site is.
More selective at newer sites but ...
I always dig any solid - clean breaking targets - for example - around a 1800's cellar hole - regardless of the target ID numbers - this has resulted in a lot of great finds !

Good luck !

 

[Southwind]

I believe a lot of people are just not using the VDI numbers the same way they use the audio so they get more out of the audio. Fact is the audio pretty much follows the VDI numbers. That is to say that well known "silver warble" can also be seen on the screen IF you know what to look for. Don't get me wrong I still believe audio is the key for most people, but I do feel the VDI gets a bum wrap because a lot just don't use it correctly. I think it is because it seems easier for the brain to process changes in audio than visual indicators. Personally I think both are valuable sources of input if you use them correctly.

The saying "hunt by sound, not by numbers" was started by the beep-N-dig clan and meant to try and justify no need for visual input. OK just kidding. When I hunt tot lots I hunt by sound but I didn't buy a detector with a killer VDI system JUST to hunt by audio.

 

[TrpnBils]

I think it is because it seems easier for the brain to process changes in audio than visual indicators.

I think that's definitely the case, and the VDI is also quite a bit slower than the audio changes. I hunt with the large numbers rather than the VDI graph as my main screen, and I know I'll get two crosshairs on the graph in heavy trash or iron in a lot of instances.

 

[BryanM362]

I believe a lot of people are just not using the VDI numbers the same way they use the audio so they get more out of the audio. Fact is the audio pretty much follows the VDI numbers. That is to say that well known "silver warble" can also be seen on the screen IF you know what to look for. Don't get me wrong I still believe audio is the key for most people, but I do feel the VDI gets a bum wrap because a lot just don't use it correctly. I think it is because it seems easier for the brain to process changes in audio than visual indicators. Personally I think both are valuable sources of input if you use them correctly.

The saying "hunt by sound, not by numbers" was started by the beep-N-dig clan and meant to try and justify no need for visual input. OK just kidding. When I hunt tot lots I hunt by sound but I didn't buy a detector with a killer VDI system JUST to hunt by audio.

My thoughts too. The VDI numbers and sound are both tools to be used together. They are both based on the same inputs from the coil, so why not take advantage of both?

 

[TrpnBils]

That is to say that well known "silver warble" can also be seen on the screen IF you know what to look for.

So let me ask you this (or to anybody with enough experience to answer): A modern Roosevelt will usually ring up at 44 conductive, as will a Merc or a Barber. Does experience allow you to hear a difference in quality of the audio between a silver coin versus a clad coin with the same VDI numbers (assuming same depth, orientation, etc). In hindsight, I feel like it might, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why or how...

 

[Southwind]

A modern Roosevelt will usually ring up at 44 conductive, as will a Merc or a Barber. Does experience allow you to hear a difference in quality of the audio between a silver coin versus a clad coin with the same VDI numbers (assuming same depth, orientation, etc). In hindsight, I feel like it might, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly why or how...

My experience has been a clad dime will ring up at 44 or 45 but silver dimes will hit that 45-46 fairly often depending on depth. Anyway I generally have a very good idea when I've got a silver dime. Now a clad dime will in some cases fool me with the 45, but that is where I rely more on the depth reading. I kind of average the numbers to get a good idea of the target. A clad will hit pretty solid numbers, because generally they aren't very deep, whereas a silver dime will hit a 44 but you'll get that 45-46 as well on every third swing or so. It is the swing from a VDI of 44-45-46 that causes that familiar "Silver Warble". It's like there is a tone break on the E-Trac right at 45 where the audio steps up to the next frequency causing a slur in the tone or warble sound as the target ID varies from 44-45-46.

The VDI numbers and sound are both tools to be used together. They are both based on the same inputs from the coil, so why not take advantage of both?

Exactly! And sometimes I feel the VDI can give more useful info than the sound. On rusted iron you hear the high pitched tone a lot like silver, but if you look at the VDI you'll see the cursor jumping up from the lower right corner telling you it is iron.

 

[ironsight]

I suppose one could hunt sorta solely by tones IF they had excellent hearing&pitch recognition, multi tone AND enough miles on their eTRAC to make it work.

But for me with my horsesh|t hearing issues, target tones are only a headsup for further dgital ID verification as whether to dig or not.

 

[mudpuppy]

Excellent question and Outstanding replies!

I'll toss this out there...The Tid can help 'recalibrate' your ears to the Tones especially if you dont get out much...after your ears calibrate to the targets at a particular location, you will find yourself not looking at it much and hunting by tones alone...Its a great learning tool that 'cements' a certain tone in your internal CPU between your ears...after a while, your CPU becomes accustomed to the target tones you seek..those canadian pennies can sure sound sweet like a silver dime! They have a distinctly higher ping than our copper pennies...

A guy doesnt get as mentally/physically worn out hunting by tones either...hunting by ear becomes a relaxing zen type of thing for your brain not having to switch from 'eye to ear input' back and forth so much, a guy can hunt heads up and see things coming or other locations too...
Mud

 

[ironsight]

The problem using multi conductive (or even multi ferrous) settings is there are a lot of tone variations and sometimes subtle harmonic tone variations depending on the target's conductivity and other variables such as nearby junk, depth or soil conditions that will affect tones.

Along with excellent hearing and pitch recognition, to hunt by tone-alone, IMO one would also need an excellent pitch memory.
Both of which i don't have. So after the headsup tone, the digital ID, depth indicator and ultimately my digging tool are my friends.
After years of using the eTRAC, i still cannot tell the difference between some corroded nails and a silver coin and neither can the VDI most of the time.

For those that can hunt successfully by sound-only with the eTRAC, thats great. In the final analysis its whatever works for the individual.

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

Old rusty target's can have "halo" around them that sends your machine higher conductive ID numbers - always a big problem when your hunting junkie sites.

The best way I've found to tell if the target I'm swinging over is a good or not - is to step off to the side and swing over the target again from 90 degrees out.
If the target is iron - 99.9% of the time - the signal will disapear.

Other tell tale things to look for is ...
(1) Unstable target ID numbers - if the Ferrous numbers bounce around alot- it's usually iron.
(2) If the target appears to be "moving around" in the ground - it's iron.

One thing to be aware of - if you have a good target with iron on or very close to it - it can send you target ID numbers that are a little erratic - if in doubt - dig it.
I found a Seated Dime last year that had a large rusty nail sitting right on top of it - the signal wanted to be good but it kept bouncing around - I almost didn't dig it - glad I did !

 

[postmanpete14]

Would like to add some thoughts to this topic.
Five months of winter for me is five months I am not listening or watching as my Etrac is playing "sweet music to my ears". I have to reprogram my senses every spring to
what I dig and when, would a timely trip to a frost-free zone in middle of winter help lessen the learning curve.
My other thought to this matter and something I do that helps me learn audio better is detect at night and only turn the backlight on when it is repeatable and a"solid" clean breaking target. I have less distraction and finding something at night and shining a light on a gold ring or silver dime adds to the fun and you're becoming more of an auditory learner.
Some ideas that you might like, happy hunting.
40 days till spring but who's looking at the numbers.

 

[TrpnBils]

40 days till spring but who's looking at the numbers.

50 degrees here in WV this past weekend. Perfect for digging!

 

[ironsight]

Old rusty target's can have "halo" around them that sends your machine higher conductive ID numbers - always a big problem when your hunting junkie sites.

The best way I've found to tell if the target I'm swinging over is a good or not - is to step off to the side and swing over the target again from 90 degrees out.
If the target is iron - 99.9% of the time - the signal will disapear.

Other tell tale things to look for is ...
(1) Unstable target ID numbers - if the Ferrous numbers bounce around alot- it's usually iron.
(2) If the target appears to be "moving around" in the ground - it's iron.

One thing to be aware of - if you have a good target with iron on or very close to it - it can send you target ID numbers that are a little erratic - if in doubt - dig it.
I found a Seated Dime last year that had a large rusty nail sitting right on top of it - the signal wanted to be good but it kept bouncing around - I almost didn't dig it - glad I did !

I normally use a wide open pattern in most areas. The parks i've hunted have deep silver anywhere from 10 to 12+ inches. Just about all of those deep coin IDs are erratic to say the least and with no nearby junk. That depth indicator along with the VDI is a great combo for finding those deepies. With anything deeper than say 10 inches i disregard the tones for the decision to dig though the tones are an added clue to digest.

I agree the halo of iron/ iron oxide particles around a corroded nail not being able to develop a consistent magnetic field polarity will cause the conductive silver falses.
I also think that severely corroded nails and i dug up a lot of em that have corroded down to their carbon components might also add to a conductive reading.
Unfortunately in my experience, these usualy give a good 2way especially the short stubby nails or short length bolts/screws.

Most mildly corroded long, shallower nails will fail the 2way test in my experience. Its those dang deep severly corroded nails that give problems.

 

[Whitetail]

I too have to recalibrate my ears after the long New England winter. My thought on this and some of the replies would be does any of the audible signals change based on one person using one set of conditions and someone else using another set of conditions? I think part of my problem may be playing with my settings too much?? I don't know if I'm learning or confusing myself by doing this?

 

[TrpnBils]

I hadn't intended it to work out this way but I posted this topic originally a few days ago and then over the weekend I spent about 20 hours on a site about a third of an acre with a small coil. It was an old home site, an old road (prior to the home), and a Civil War encampment with over 5000 guys at it and it's been hit hard for 30 years now (it's now a working farm, complete with plows and irrigation). I feel I learned more this weekend about my detector than I have since I got it in May. This site was FULL of nails and other junk but I managed to pull two large cents, a half cent, and two IHPs on some REALLY questionable signals I think I would have normally passed over. Looking forward to seeing how I can hone what I learned even further this year!

 

[oneguy]

Looking forward to seeing how I can hone what I learned even further this year!

Yeah..... I'm guessing I "might" be a third of the way to fully understanding all the capabilities of the Trac. Hope to be pretty good with the thing in about 2 more yrs....????