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What is the purpose of 6 pins on all my Sov GT coils ?

deepdiger60

New member
I have shortened all my wires on all my coils for the GT and they work perfect , what i do not understand is all the coils have 4 wires but the connectors 6 pins no matter what brand ? 2 of the pins go nowhere no wires are connected to them maybe iam not seeing something ? I find the coils are a lot quieter and respond faster . Jim
 
Been a while since I looked at the pin outs when I was fixing a short in the 12x10 I bought knowing it wasn't working, so I'm going from memory here. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong as this is just off the top of my head from vague memory.

If I remember right there were two wires for the TX (transmit) winding, then two wires for the received signal from the RX winding. So that make's 4. Then there was a redudant ground that I *think* some of the early coils used for some odd reason way back in the day. And then there is the meter ID output which makes 6 pins. The redudant ground was eliminated early on in the coil wiring and the meter output ID pin isn't needed in the coil's cable, because that extra pin only outputs from the control box back down the meter's coil cable to the meter to read and display the conductivity (voltage) of the target on I think a 2 volt scale generated inside the control box. Think about it. The coil plugs into the meter, so there is no need for that ID pin between the meter and the coil, because the ID output voltage travels from the control box only to the meter, so that extra pin only exists in the meter's cable between it and the control box.

Any meters that don't have their own battery draw their power from the TX output in the coil cable. Some might think this means the TX winding is getting less power, but in reality the meter is drawing it's power in parallel to the TX winding, so both are still seeing full voltage. I have heard some in the past claim not using a meter might give the coil a bit more output power but in reality I don't think that makes any difference. If the meter was wired in series to the TX winding then sure, the TX winding would be seeing less voltage since it would have to pass through the meter first. But in terms of the meter being wired in parallel like it is, the only way that could possibly give weaken the detection field generated by the TX winding would be if the Sovereign was being taxed trying to handle the amp draw of both meter and the TX winding, but the amp draw is so very tiny that I'm sure the Sovereign was designed to be able to handle the ever so slight amp draw of both without sagging in the current being delivered to both.

Let me see if I can dig up an schematic to post here...

Oh, and far as shortening the coil cables...I've read where some have been told by Minelab that it really won't improve performance. Probably partly due to the pre-amp boosting the signal at the RX winding before sending it up the coil cable, so it's stronger and thus less prone to EMI or weak signal degradation. The pre-amp circuit in the BBS machines is one of their unique features that probably is one of the reasons they are so deep and also run so smooth. By doing an initial boost of the very weak received signal right at the coil before it's had a chance to pick up EMI or degrade while traveling to the control box, that should make the machine run smoother and get deeper. Once the signal reaches the control box your sensitivity control determines how much more to amplify the signal based on where you set it. There comes a point where too amplified of a signal is boosting too much noise or ground signal and the machine can no longer sort out what part of the signal to pay attention to (the target), versus what to ignore (EMI and/or the ground signal).

Many people think the sensitivity control adjusts the output power to the transmit winding in the coil. It doesn't on most machines. Some can adjust that (such as some Whites), but IMO the benefits are a wash. In most situations a certain static setting of the TX power provides the best performance in most soils/sands, which is why it's set and can't be changed at the factory on most machines. Too much power to the TX winding and it starts having issues with balance between it and the RX coil, and also can have major issues with the ground matrix. Which is why some said Shaun's amp (which increased voltage to the TX winding) was unusable in their soils or sands.

By the way, the pre-amp on the RX winding is pretty much unique among BBS machines. The FBS units don't even have one far as I've been able to dig up. Only detectors I know of off hand that also have a pre-amp in the coil are the Xterra line. Haven't run across any other machines yet that I've seen have one in them. Remember that putting that little pre-amp circuit in the coil is added expensive in manufacturing. A typical coil doesn't have any electronics in it, but rather just two windings (TX and RX) and maybe a capacitor or such, but that's about it.

I remember Ralph from Sun Ray saying something about most (or at least some) Sovereign coils not even having RF shielding in the cable, unlike most detectors. I would figure that's probably because of the pre-amp making the RX signal more robust and so less prone to picking up EMI traveling up to the control box. I think he said the newer versions of the Sun Ray S-12 coil (they have a different cable color, see coil sticky for details) do have RF shielding because they needed to use that kind of cable anyway to build the FBS version of that coil.

There's been debate as to shortening coil cables making the Sovereign run better/deeper. Two things could make that possible- shorter cable = picking up less EMI in certain environments, and shorter cable = less wire resistance so less voltage drop from resistance in the wire going to the TX winding. But, both of those things are so miniscule and hard to measure in the lengths of wire we are talking here that I doubt either is a real issue that you could even measure or notice. The only one I think might show it's self would be the less EMI thing if you were hunting right around a bad source of it such as a house or something. In that case a shorter wire might show visible results. Also, wrapping the coil cable around the metal shaft on a dector creates an inductor, which can resist current flow, but again there is so little power traveling through the coil cable that I doubt it's something you could even measure with fine instruments, let alone notice in performance.

If you were to say add 10 or 20 feet more coil cable to your detector then that's probably where you might see issues with wire resistance, inductors resisting current flow, or EMI problems that you could really see performance degradation from.

All that said, would I shorten the coil cables on my Sovereign? Sure, why not. Way I look at it it can't hurt and *might* help in some small way in certain situations. But people have to remember that if they do that they won't be able to hip or chest mount for land hunting (unless they are using a meter on the shaft still since the coil only has to reach the meter and then the meter's cable will reach your hip or chest mounted control box), or say to chest mount for water hunting. That could hurt re-sale value of your coils. Then again, somebody could easily buy a plug in coil extension cable to do those things, but for water hunting if the coil's plug is near or under the water then it's out for that.

Since I only use my stock 10" Tornado on my water shaft, I'm thinking I might shorten the cables on my S-5 and 12x10 just long enough to reach the control box, so that if a meter isn't used the coils will still reach the box on the shaft. And, I might also shorten the cable on my Minelab meter too, because that's also got a ton of extra cable on it for somebody leaving the meter on the shaft but hip or chest mounting the control box. Come to think of it that does bother me. If not for the EMI or other issues above, then just for that fact that it's all that extra bit of weight on my homemade light weight shaft. Maybe a winter project to shorten my coils/meter I think.

It's not an issue with Ron's meter, since he doesn't use a long bulk coil cable but rather a thin one to run from the control box to the meter. One of the big perks about his meter. I like his meter better than my Minelab Digisearch meter but I've been keeping it off my shaft for now as I'd rather beat up the Minelab meter in the woods I'll be hunting this winter and want to baby his for my more "pleasant" hunts in the summer in open parks and such.

One final thought- If anybody is going to shorten their coil cables I'd only shorten it so far that it will still reach the control box mounted on the shaft, with an extra bit of length to wrap around the shaft about three times or so so you've got room to cut off cable and fix a short should that happen down the road. That way somebody can still use the coil with the control box mounted on the shaft but no meter for re-sale value and have a bit of extra cable to spare for cutting out and fixing a short. If they ever want to hip or chest mount the control box and aren't using a meter on the shaft to provide that extra cable, they can always buy a plug in extension, but for somebody chest mounting to water hunt it might be a deal killer since the cable connector would probably now be dangerously close to the water level maybe.

You've got me thinking now about shortening all my coil cables and the Minelab meter's cable. The only cable I think I'll leave stock length is the 10" Tornado, so that's on my water rig. I still might shorten that cable only long enough to reach the control box on my back shaft extension where I mount the control box to keep it high out of the water. I'm still mounting it there when I get the waterproof Planno box, because that way it won't try to float or bang into me and offers less water resistance. Right now the plastic bag I'm sealing the control box in back there is working nicely at giving me extra confidence my GT won't get wet.

PS- There was a thread a few months back in the modifications forum discussing the shortening of the coil cables on detectors and whether or not that might increase performance. I go back and fourth on the issue due to how Minelab is boosting the RX signal, but like I say it can't hurt and *might* help due to the issues discussed above (and also in that thread), so if you are handy with a soldering iron and heat shrink why not? Plus it makes the shaft look less cluttered and drops a bit more weight off the machine. Be sure to shrink wrap each wire and the shrink wrap the entire mass of them to the outside cable insulation well so that there are no potentials for shorts or water contamination say on a rainy day. If you are soldering right to the coil plug's pins on the back of the connector be careful about applying too much heat because some of those plugs have very little metal between where the wire solders to and the actual pin connector inside the plug. I had to knock 2 or 3 of those pins out on my SEF's stock plug and replace them with pins from a similar plug at Radio Shack (they don't sell plugs with the right number of pins but they are using the same pins in them).
 
Jim six pins are needed if you use any of the ID meters.Correct Sovereign coils only need the use of 4 pins,never did figured out why they used 5 wires on the older coils.Hope this helps.Thanks Ron
 
Ron, from memory I think the 5th pin on coil cables was a redundant ground that they used for some odd reason on early coils very early in the Sovereign's life and then abandoned that. I *think* I remember reading that the extra ground was used for the pre-amp's ground, but they had overlooked that it just could be grounded directly to the other ground being used. That's just a vague guess from some obscure stuff I remember reading a while back on the subject somewhere, so I'm sure somebody will correct me if I have it wrong.
 
Figured it out. Dug up a schematic from a meter sticky thread link for building a meter...
[attachment 244678 Plug.jpg]
As you can see, pin 5 and 6 are used for the positive and negative ID outputs to the meter, so they don't exist in the coil's cable on a coil. They only exist in a meter's cable to feed the pos/neg ID voltage back down the meter's cable to the meter it's self. They aren't needed in the coil's cable because the coil plugs into the meter and the meter's ID source only travels from the control box to the meter and not down the coil cable. So 4 wires for the pos/neg for the TX and RX windings in the coil, and the pre-amp feeds off the TX windings pos/neg output power to that winding. The RX coil is amped by the pre-amp circuit and sent up the other two wires (the RX Receive wires in the coil cable).

So why 6 pins then on the coil connector if there are only 4 wires inside the cable hooked up to only 4 pins in the plug on a coil? Because if you didn't have a 6 pin plug on your coil it wouldn't mate with the control box when not using a meter. Only 4 of the pins are actually being used (thus 4 wires in the cable), but this way if you plug a coil into the meter and the meter into the control box, the connector for the meter has the 2 extra pins to be able to receive the ID output voltage from the control box. So that's why your coil has a 6 pin plug, so it can still plug into the control box without a meter plugged in between them.

But for some reason I still vaguely remember that some of the early Sovereign coils DID use a 5th pin in the cable (an extra ground) way back in the day. If that's the case then it might have served a dual purpose. Maybe grounding the pre-amp and also as the ground for the ID output 2V scale to the meter as well, where as now it's only grounding the output ID to the meter, and now the pre-amp is grounded directly to the TX's ground. Not sure about the old coils having a 5th wire/pin, but am sure the 2 extra pins on all the plugs are to accomodate the meter's needed ID source voltage being read from the control box.
 
I know on the E-Trac it only takes 4 wires, but there is a ground connected from the board to the first coil connector. It does not go down to the coil.
2012-09-02222021-2.jpg

2012-09-02222108-2.jpg
 
Critter,on the old coils that I pinned the extra wire was always left off and never noticed any performance difference.I think you are correct.Thanks Ron
 
Ron, maybe I'm not right. All I remember is a vague memory about reading an old thread somewhere that there was at one time a 5th wire in the early Sovereign coils that was a redundant ground wire to *I think* the pre-amp circuit. If that's the case, then perhaps early versions of the pre-amp IC in that circuit had issues with noise unless they were grounded extra well. That's my best guess as to why you'd want to run a second ground to the same circuit. I suspect that same ground that no longer exists in the coils is the same one that still exists in meter cables to feed the target ID (voltage) to the meter, and at one time it served both purposes. Perhaps with later IC advancements it was no longer necessary to ground it with a 2nd and separate isolated ground to insure no EMI potential.

I know that, on your car for example, they'll often have redundant grounds in various places on the motor. Why? Partly to eliminate excessive EMI noise which can do strange things to electronics. I'm suspecting that if that extra ground was hooked ot the pre-amp, it was to insure best EMI elimination as possible. Could be too that any noise generated by the pre-amp IC was also traveling up the TX negative lead that also feeds the power to the meter and causing the meter to funk out sometimes, so by running an extra ground wire it could have been extra insurance against the problem.

If that's the case, then eliminating that extra wire connection on old early coils probably wouldn't show any problem like you said, because it was just extra insurance against the potential of EMI generation that most people would probably never experience.

Now I'm curious about all this. I think I know where I can dig up an old pre-amp schematic for the Sovereign coils and if memory serves it showed this extra second ground to the pre-amp. I'll see if I can find it to post...
 
Thanks all for the information as i see it if i wanted to use a ---- sef coil for a e-trac on my GT all i need do is a slight wire modification and it should work since the e-trac is 4 wires also in a 6 pin adapter ? Jim
 
Not sure what you are asking (?), but if you mean can you change the plug for an FBS coil and have it work on your BBS unit...Nope, completely different coils inside. Coils have to be tuned to exacting performance specs for the specific model detector they are intended for. Wire resistance of the windings and a few other specs have to be within a very tight window of operating specs to work on any given model of detector, not to mention that BBS coils have a RX pre-amp while I don't believe FBS units use one.

On the other subject, found this...

Art (NWOH) said:
At the control box.....

Pin #s
1&2 transmit
3&6 ground
4 recieve
5 meter ID voltage ( to meter if used)

On the coil cable...older BBS coils

Pins 1&2 transmit
pins 3&6 signal ground (redundant)
pin 4 recieve signal
pin 5 not used

HH

So at least that part I remember right, the extra 5th wire on older coils was an extra ground. Just can't find the early version schematic of the pre-amp circuit where I seem to remember the 5th wire redundant ground was used to ground the pre-amp a second time. If I remember that part right then there's the answer about an extra (5th) wire on some early coils, and it would also be why not re-connecting that wire on doing a plug repair on those coils probably wouldn't show any change in performance, because it was probably just intended as extra insurance for early versions of the IC on the pre-amp circuit to lesson any EMI generation by the circuit I'm guessing.

Another possibility is that that extra ground was used to ground the RF shielding in the coil, because sometimes shielding is grounded to better avoid RF contamination. The RF shielding in the GT's control box, for example, if memory serves has a wire and a paper clip attached to it that is grounded to the circuit board for that reason. Could be later coils just grounded the RF shield inside the coil to the same ground the windings/pre-amp are using so it eliminated the 5th wire.

As a side note, I think there was a production run of a certain Sovereign model (XS?) that didn't have any RF shielding in the control box, and people would install their own shielding inside the control box so it was better around EMI sources.

Ralph at Sun Ray mentions that the early versions of the S-12 spiderweb coil didn't use RF shielding in the coil cable and that I think other Sovereign coils don't either due to the robustness of the pre-amp signal generated, but that later S-12s used shielding in the cable since that kind of cable was needed for the FBS versions of the S-12 (the X-12). I think he noted that there was no difference in performance that anybody could notice between the non-shielded and shielded cables. Way I look at it can't hurt to hedge your bets. I'm wondering if lining the coil cable on coils (well away from the coil of course) for the rest of the length running to the control box with say RF shield tape or tinfoil maybe might lesson any EMI a tad and allow you to run sensitivity a bit higher when around sources of EMI. Probably before I did that I'd just shorten my coil cables and get just as much potential out of it to lesson any possible EMI.
 
Thanks Critter so much then for my idea for a interchangeable coil ill be happy with shortened wires i still do not understand why Minelab would make the lower shaft out of some kind of white metal and the upper carbon fiber i don't need all the wire 25 extra inches wound around my lower metal shaft , the way i have it now is straight up the shaft from the coil a little extra slack for coil movement to the search probe 28 inches total no wrapping needed on the shaft , so far so good the coils work perfect the best coil now is the stock 10" very deep and good separation in the farm fields , one thing i noticed my S-12 coil the 4 wires inside where wrapped in a plastic like stringy fiber like a shield which i left on when i cut the wire , stock 10" has no shield or fiber wrapping . Jim
 
Well, it might be a hold-over from days gone by, but with a standardized connector, you don't need to buy new connectors for old coils, and vice-versa. But in the days of tubes... When did Minelab get started as a company? It could be a hold-over from that long ago; they just kept the standard over time.
 
DeepDiger, explain the shaft thing? The lower shaft on the Sovereign and far as I know the Excal is a extra thich/heavy fiberglass, and the upper shaft is a heavy (too heavy) gauge of aluminum. You can drop a good bit of weight by ditching the lower shaft for a Whites tall man carbon rod and the upper for a shorter/lighter gauge of aluminum, along with a Whites arm cup. I did that for my land rig, but I don't know if I'd trust the Whites tall man carbon fiber rod for heavy water use. I have used my land rig in the water with no issues swinging the 15x12 even, but I'd probably prefer to hedge my bets and just use the stock GT shaft like I do for my water rig. You can never over engineer a water shaft for strength because weight really isn't an issue in the water, but on land for sure I think Minelab went way overkill on the strength of the stock shaft and made it way too heavy. That's where most of the weight of the GT comes from (shaft and arm cup). Second source would be the 8AA alkalines or the stock rechargeable. And final would be the coil cover on a coil.

I asked Ralph at Sun Ray in a PM about the redundant ground wire found on early Minelab coils and where it went to. He didn't mention it, other than telling me that Sun Ray never used that 5th wire redundant ground on any of their coils they make.

I just could swear I remember seeing an early schematic of the pre-amp in the coil and it had notation about an extra ground (5th wire) that wasn't really needed, but that's just a very vague memory from a few years back. Tried to dig up that schematic but no dice, just other ones that didn't note that extra ground, so I'm not sure where that extra ground went. Maybe next time I'm bored here I'll do another search for it and see if my memory was right.
 
Critter i am waiting for a 1 piece carbon fiber shaft to use on the GT 48 inches it cost 98.00 but to me it is worth it so that should take care of the weight issue nothing will be metallic on the shaft except the coil wire which there is nothing i can do about that except make it shorter , as far as the wire issue i opened my box and now i see all 6 pins inside are occupied the 4 inside the cable and a blue wire plus a jumper on the center pin going to the a pin , that would explain everything . I have been in the control many times and never noticed that , i took a good photo . Jim :thumbup:
 
Admire your boldness to open the box. Not many do. I only did to figure out how to do a remote PP switch on the GT, because it's switch configuaration is different than older Sovereigns which had a few remote PP mods floating around on the net. Wish that pic was a little more clear in terms of what pins have what wires on them. Well, in reality I already know. 4 to the coil (TX 2 pins and RX 2), and 2 more for the target ID output to the meter. The meter (ones not using their own battery) draw their power from the TX wire outputs to the coil, but the 5th and 6th pins are for the meter ID read from the control box 2V output scale it computes on conductivity.

You are going the route I was going to go...Using a single rod carbon fiber shaft. But after I saw how much weight I could save by using a shorter/much lighter gauge upper aluminum tube for the upper shaft, and a Whites tall man rod for lower shaft (which is about twice as long as the stocky heavy fiberglass lower Minelab shaft, thus you could shorten your new upper one for even more weight savings)...And combined with using a Whites "heavy duty" arm cup to replace the stock one (the stock one from memory weighs over half a pound...8.8 ounces!)...I figured I'd only save a mere nother ounce or so with a carbon upper shaft, so I didn't pursue it. Just the same, if I had the money to burn, for sure I'd convert to all carbon.

As it stands right now the upper lighter gauge aluminum shaft I'm using is only about maybe a foot and a half long or so. Just long enough for the distance between the arm cup at my elbow and the hand grip, with about 3" or so past that so the lower shaft can ride inside the upper one with no slop, because the Whites tall man carbon rod is way longer than the stock lower shaft.

The arm cup (with strap) and lower tall man rod were only I think $10 a piece about 2 to 3 years ago when I bought them directly off White's website. Not sure what they cost now. Basically you are replacing about 2/3rds (at least) of your stock shaft with the Whites carbon fiber tall man lower shaft, so that extra foot & a half or roughly of the new lighter gauge aluminum for the upper shaft...I didn't see much point in going carbon the last little bit of shaft length for the upper.

Surprisingly, even the stock grip (which I HATED) is fairly heavy. From memory, when I weighed a hollow aluminum bicycle end bar (cut down in length for what was needed) it was lighter than the stock plastic grip and foam padding. I think though that by the time I added a gel grip cover to the new bike end bar grip, that the weight savings on that was pretty much a wash. They do sell carbon fiber ones though, but if you put a grip cover on it you are probably near the weight of the stock grip. The weight savings on that wasn't as important to me anyway, because the stock grip never felt comfortable to me. The angle was wrong and it was too thick, not to mention the foam cover would hold water if it got wet. By the way, the used GT I bought...They had the grip on BACKWARDS so that the grip was angled toward you rather than away.

Bike end bars come in pairs, and one bends to the left and one to the right. I used the one bending slightly left. The top half might look like one h*ll of a bend on some of them, but in reality your hand is only on the lower part which usually only has a slight bend, so I cut off the upper unneeded part (kept it just long enough to hang over my hand to mount my meter using a pipe hanger and so that my remote PP switch hung down...I mounted the switch for that inside the hollow bike end bar...worked like a charm) off and it's good to go. I've found a slight left bend of the end bar at it's base (being that I'm right handed) puts the grip in a much more natural position anyway than straight up and down.

What are you doing for an arm cup and a grip? If you want to go all carbon I know there are carbon bike end bars to use as grips. Cheap if you know where to look. Far as arm cups, I *think* I've seen carbon fiber ones, but if not and you don't want to buy the Whites (which is SUPER light), some guys I've seen in the past made them from PVC piping by cutting one right out of it from a home improvement store. I would think that would be heavier then the Whites aluminum one though.

I think you said no rivets or screws before? If so, that Whites would be prime for that, because it hugs the shaft very well. I only used one rivet to hold it to the shaft, which also held the back of my GT box clip to the shaft, with a second rivet on the box clip at the front and then I was done. That Whites I've beat the heck out of in the woods, and despite one rivet it snugs the shaft so well that there is no slop still, so what I'm saying is that if you are going epoxy only, that Whites will snug down real nice with just gluing it onto the shaft because of how tight it hugs it.

If you are epoxying an arm cup or a box clip for the GT (or is it the Excal?) to the carbon shaft...I've got a bit of experience with both epoxying plastic and carbon together building RC planes. Rough up the surfaces with fine sand paper well. If the scratches don't feel deep enough even take an extacto knife and groove some deeper scratches into both surfaces for the epoxy to bite into and hold, and then clean with rubbing alchohol. Remember too that you can't over mix epoxy. More mixing the better. If you don't have any good epoxy handy head to a local hobby shop and look for some stuff that comes in two clear bottles. One with red writing and one with black. Best stuff I ever used hands down. 5 minute version is plenty of time to work with for the stuff you'd be doing. Don't skim on the epoxy. The junk you can get at most stores like Walmart won't compare, and the good hobby grade stuff is only like $8 as the pair (in the package) from memory and comes in fairly large bottles.

Good luck with that project and I hope you post some pics on however you decide to build it. I'm sure you've got better ideas than I gave you, just throwing a few out there for you in case you are still looking...
 
Critter it is not very difficult to open the box just 2 screws i do it a few times a year it is amazing how fine dirt and dust from the fields migrate in through the seam,s plus out here on the thumb 103 miles off the main land iam surrounded by salt water just a mile of land on both sides plus i go in salt water alot with the GT, i use a can of compressed air to blow out the dirt and clean off any salt corrosion inside plus i put in new moister packs , iam going to go with a 1 piece rod all carbon fiber and hunt for the best non-metallic hand grip and arm cuff i use a hot glue gun there is a product called Iron Man ..... oh there is no iron in it lol just the product name i dare anyone to try to pull apart something glued with that stuff after it sets up , all in all it cant hurt to try to eliminate as much metal as possible after all this is a metal detector why in hell would manufactures want to use metal shafts screws and fasteners ? i never understood that , while walking the fields i have to keep my digger on my shoulder if it gets with-in 3 feet of my coils it will drive my GT crazy that is how sensitive that machine is . Jim
 
Jim,

That might explain some of the chatter I get sometimes.... I'm pretty careful about digging tools or probe being near the coil, but 3 feet is a larger area than I figured. When using a scoop, I often drag it behind me - the size of that is enough to set off the chatter within three feet, but I thought that was just to to size and shape. I will have to test this out with smaller tools and closeness to coil.
 
Yea, I know it's easy to take the control box apart as I did to figure out a remote PP switch for mine. Lot of dead air in that box. They could have made it a lot less thick but I guess they did that so the controls were spaced out on the face plate nicely. Still, I would have rather had the controls compressed into a space say have the height of the face plate then the box wouldn't have had to been so bulky.

Far as metal on a shaft goes, I'm using the Whites tall man rod which is like twice the length of the stock shaft, so that snap head adjustment pin for setting shaft height is about twice away from the coil as it is stock, but just the same I flipped it upside down in both the stock shaft (my water rig) and my homemade land shaft, that way the bottom of the "V" is pointing away from the coil. Every little bit might help is the way I figure it.

Which reminds me, if anybody builds a homemade shaft or they ever drill holes in the stock one, don't forget to turn it upside down and shake out any aluminum bits that might have fell down the shaft and are sitting on top of the plastic coil mount insert that goes up inside the lower shaft. I almost forgot to do that after drilling the holes for my snap pin for the back extension on the stock shaft where I now mount my control box when water hunting, and when I tipped the shaft upside down a good bit of aluminum shards came falling out of the back of the shaft.

If you are getting salt mist inside the control box, look into some kind of electrical cleaner that also has a anti-rust ingredient in it to spray the board so it's protected with a fine layer of oil or something to keep any salt from causing rust in the future. If I was hunting salt water I'd for sure take my GT apart and spray the board with some kind of protective spray that is meant for protecting electronics. Just be careful around the POT controls because that residue might make the feeler surfaces in them get funky.
 
Jim,

Who makes the Iron Man hot glue? I have searched for but can't seem to find it. Also where did you buy it?

Thanks,
OT
 
OT there is a very old hardware store out here by me 70 years family owned they have it i never seen it anywhere else it takes a butane fired heat gun to use it 10 sticks per bag , this store if they don't have what your looking for no one does isles and isles of bins you can spend all day just looking it caterer's mostly to the farming community , any waterproof hot glue would work Home Depot etc.... Jim
 
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