christopher-ohio
Active member
To satisfy my curiousity, I have tested at least 15-20 1021 and 1121 CZ-3D's over the years since they were first introduced...all were produced by Fisher while still in Los Banos, CA.
Overall, I have never found any build quality problems with any of them but the tuning of each is a different story.
I have found that the tuning, airtesting distance, and meter reading varies with all the machines-none were exactly the same so each CZ is unique in how it performs-ID, airtesting, iron falsing, etc..
I purchased two new CZ-3D's that were consecutive in serial numbers twice...there was a significant difference in ID consistency and airtesting distance.
Some were just ridiculous in how hot they were-airtesting a clad dime to around 15 inches or so
others were just average-10 to 11 inches with a clad dime.
There are some problems which occur with CZ-3D's:
Old nickel tuning is way off-old nickel reads mainly pull tab or foil sometimes
Some machines are frankly just unstable for some reason above 3 or more sensitivity, EMI sensitivity varies too.
Some machines "smear" the signal near the end of detection whereas others give a nice sharp "blip"
Iron falsing varies dramatically from machine to machine too.
Airtesting distance can vary dramatically too...I believe it has to do with the quad driver per Tom D.'s post on his site awhile back.
The pinpoint distance can also varying too.
There are two way to set up the nickel window on a CZ-3D:
Have all nickels give a high tone versus a high tone mainly on old nickels and not newer ones which read pulltab which is the way it was designed.
I purchased a used CZ-3D from a forum dealer that just been "re-tuned" by Fisher-the nickel window still was not ideal and all nickels gave a high tone for the most part
I have read many posts on the forums and been PM'd numerous times over the years about newer First Texas CZ-3D's that were way out of tune for nickels and only airtested a clad dime 8-10 inches max. I'm sure that there are some out there that have got a "good" newer CZ-3D but that seems to be very rare indeed. CZ tuning is very labor intensive but I would think there could be standard performance tseting before each machine is released from the factory since $760 for a new machine is not chump change. Mike Scott has stated on here that First Texas would be happy to re-tune a CZ-3D if there is a problem, so that does give on some peace of mind on buying a new First Texas CZ-3D.
Some CZ-3D's rarely false on iron, honest but true-it made hunting old house sites with tons of iron easy whereas others are a nightmare.
In conclusion, since every CZ-3D is unique in tuning and electronic performance(EMI sensitivity, airtesting distance, "smearing, overall stability, etc...), it is somewhat of a crapshoot to get one that works exactly like it should-you may have to purchase several used 1021 or 1121 machines to find a good one or buy a new one and have it re-tuned/re-calibrated if it's off...YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW A PROPERLY TUNED CZ-3D IS SUPPOSED TO WORK... before making any judgements...Tom Dankowski has posted CZ-3D performance specs on his website. I will say that a properly tuned CZ-3D is a pleasure to use at an old site,,,I have found myself just laughing and shaking my head about deep old coin after old coin I was digging up like shooting ducks in a barrel. CZ-70's vary substantially too. I still prefer CZ's for their ease of use, cost compared to other machines, raw depth, simplicity, discerned sensitivity to EMI and build quality...etc
Problems such as nickel tuning, iron falsing, and signal smearing can be fixed for the most part...an unstable machine, airtesting distance is another story. There have been many critics of the CZ-3D over the years but in my opinion, it is due to the lack of standard tuning and performance from the factory, not the machine design or designer.
Just my humble opinion...HH...Good luck to all in 2010!
Re: CZ tuning Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: January 17, 2007 04:46PM
Gary,
Place CZ-3D in "Enhanced" mode and:
* Approx. 25% - 40% of new nickels should read 'round-tab' (with mid-tone).
* $5.00 Gold Half-Eagle should read high-tone (Zinc Penny ID).
* U.S. Shield nickel should read high-tone (Nickel ID).
* Zinc pennies should read high tone (High-Coin ID).
Sensitivity/Depth check: Place Sensitivity on '5', Disc '0' and in 'Enhanced' mode:
* U.S. clad dime should air-test & ID correctly at 11.25" (w/8" coil).
* At maximum range... audio response should be short, faint & crisp......and NOT 'smeared/elongated' audio.
Autotune mode should start to produce a faint audio threshold tone/hum at sensitivity settings above '9'.
Just a few 'quick-checks'.
H.I.H.
Tom
Re: Testing my CZ3d - Results and a Question Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2008 09:12PM
Yes. There are 2 ways it can be adjusted/calibrated:
#1 = The first way is to have all new nickels register as a high tone.... with several of the older generation(s) nickels to still register as a mid-tone (trash tone). ((( This is the old generation/standard CZ config ))).
#2 = The second way is to have the older generation nickels register as a high tone .... with approx 20% - 35% of the newer nickels to NOT register properly. ((( This is a CZ-3D norm ))). ..... and this is the 'prefered' method, as most folks are not as concerned about modern clad coins.
Tom
Re: Fine tuning the CZ-3 Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: August 19, 2008 06:30AM
First,
Try an outdoor air-test with a dime. Settings:
Disc. = '0' (not auto-tune)
Sens. = '5'
Gnd Bal = '10'
Volume = '10'
Mode = 'enhance'
Keep the coil away from ALL metal objects. Do NOT place the dime on the ground. Keep the dime parallel (not tilted) to the coil...... wave the dime in front of the coil.....and report how far the unit will detect the dime. Should be around 11" (+/-) 1".
Re: Nickle readings on a CZ3D . Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2009 09:43AM
In 'Salt' mode on CZ-3D (or 'Normal' mode on non-CZ-3D units) nickels (never exposed to dirt) should ID as 'nickel' BUT.... with one stipulation; many Shield nickels will ID as 'foil'....especially the ones that have been exposed to dirt/mother nature. (This is 'air-test' results). Dirt corroded nickels of any era..... even in an air-test..... can ID as 'foil' with units that do not have the 'enhanced' mode....or you are in 'Salt' mode.
CZ-3D in 'enhanced' mode will bring nearly ALL "Dirt-corroded" nickels up into the 'nickel' (high tone) range.... in the real dirt. IF you were to pull 100 circulating nickels out of your pocket (never exposed to dirt//not dug)...and AIR-TEST whilst in 'enhanced' mode: approx 20% - 35% will ID as 'round-tab' w/according mid-tone.........with the remainder of the nickels properly ID'ing as 'nickel'. This is for CORRECTLY calibrated CZ-3D's.
Tom
Re: Correctly tuned CZ-3D Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: August 09, 2007 10:19AM
Hi Rich,
I have the original calibration & test "Standards" for the CZ-3D. I also have a set of cal & test standards..... and I would assume the new Fisher (First Texas) also has standards for all CZ's. These are items/tools/devices (usually test-targets) utilized to calibrate/align the "null" on electronic equipment......including metal detectors. ..... It sounds like your unit may have a stability problem, external electromagnetic interference exposure, bad ground mineralization or very trashy areas.
First; Discover if it is stable in open air (or bench tests).
Second; Discover if it is stable in a open field in the country where no targets exist.
Third; Force the unit to be 'unstable' and slowly (incrementally) alter the Grnd Bal control and seek to find a 'change/differential'.
Fourth; Discover if unit is stable at lower Sens settings.
Fifth; Discover if instability is in 'Salt mode' ,,, 'Normal mode' ,,, 'All-Metal mode' only...... or is in ALL modes.
Sincerely,
Tom
Overall, I have never found any build quality problems with any of them but the tuning of each is a different story.
I have found that the tuning, airtesting distance, and meter reading varies with all the machines-none were exactly the same so each CZ is unique in how it performs-ID, airtesting, iron falsing, etc..
I purchased two new CZ-3D's that were consecutive in serial numbers twice...there was a significant difference in ID consistency and airtesting distance.
Some were just ridiculous in how hot they were-airtesting a clad dime to around 15 inches or so
others were just average-10 to 11 inches with a clad dime.There are some problems which occur with CZ-3D's:
Old nickel tuning is way off-old nickel reads mainly pull tab or foil sometimes
Some machines are frankly just unstable for some reason above 3 or more sensitivity, EMI sensitivity varies too.
Some machines "smear" the signal near the end of detection whereas others give a nice sharp "blip"
Iron falsing varies dramatically from machine to machine too.
Airtesting distance can vary dramatically too...I believe it has to do with the quad driver per Tom D.'s post on his site awhile back.
The pinpoint distance can also varying too.
There are two way to set up the nickel window on a CZ-3D:
Have all nickels give a high tone versus a high tone mainly on old nickels and not newer ones which read pulltab which is the way it was designed.
I purchased a used CZ-3D from a forum dealer that just been "re-tuned" by Fisher-the nickel window still was not ideal and all nickels gave a high tone for the most part
I have read many posts on the forums and been PM'd numerous times over the years about newer First Texas CZ-3D's that were way out of tune for nickels and only airtested a clad dime 8-10 inches max. I'm sure that there are some out there that have got a "good" newer CZ-3D but that seems to be very rare indeed. CZ tuning is very labor intensive but I would think there could be standard performance tseting before each machine is released from the factory since $760 for a new machine is not chump change. Mike Scott has stated on here that First Texas would be happy to re-tune a CZ-3D if there is a problem, so that does give on some peace of mind on buying a new First Texas CZ-3D.
Some CZ-3D's rarely false on iron, honest but true-it made hunting old house sites with tons of iron easy whereas others are a nightmare.
In conclusion, since every CZ-3D is unique in tuning and electronic performance(EMI sensitivity, airtesting distance, "smearing, overall stability, etc...), it is somewhat of a crapshoot to get one that works exactly like it should-you may have to purchase several used 1021 or 1121 machines to find a good one or buy a new one and have it re-tuned/re-calibrated if it's off...YOU NEED TO KNOW HOW A PROPERLY TUNED CZ-3D IS SUPPOSED TO WORK... before making any judgements...Tom Dankowski has posted CZ-3D performance specs on his website. I will say that a properly tuned CZ-3D is a pleasure to use at an old site,,,I have found myself just laughing and shaking my head about deep old coin after old coin I was digging up like shooting ducks in a barrel. CZ-70's vary substantially too. I still prefer CZ's for their ease of use, cost compared to other machines, raw depth, simplicity, discerned sensitivity to EMI and build quality...etc
Problems such as nickel tuning, iron falsing, and signal smearing can be fixed for the most part...an unstable machine, airtesting distance is another story. There have been many critics of the CZ-3D over the years but in my opinion, it is due to the lack of standard tuning and performance from the factory, not the machine design or designer.
Just my humble opinion...HH...Good luck to all in 2010!
Re: CZ tuning Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: January 17, 2007 04:46PM
Gary,
Place CZ-3D in "Enhanced" mode and:
* Approx. 25% - 40% of new nickels should read 'round-tab' (with mid-tone).
* $5.00 Gold Half-Eagle should read high-tone (Zinc Penny ID).
* U.S. Shield nickel should read high-tone (Nickel ID).
* Zinc pennies should read high tone (High-Coin ID).
Sensitivity/Depth check: Place Sensitivity on '5', Disc '0' and in 'Enhanced' mode:
* U.S. clad dime should air-test & ID correctly at 11.25" (w/8" coil).
* At maximum range... audio response should be short, faint & crisp......and NOT 'smeared/elongated' audio.
Autotune mode should start to produce a faint audio threshold tone/hum at sensitivity settings above '9'.
Just a few 'quick-checks'.
H.I.H.
Tom
Re: Testing my CZ3d - Results and a Question Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: March 02, 2008 09:12PM
Yes. There are 2 ways it can be adjusted/calibrated:
#1 = The first way is to have all new nickels register as a high tone.... with several of the older generation(s) nickels to still register as a mid-tone (trash tone). ((( This is the old generation/standard CZ config ))).
#2 = The second way is to have the older generation nickels register as a high tone .... with approx 20% - 35% of the newer nickels to NOT register properly. ((( This is a CZ-3D norm ))). ..... and this is the 'prefered' method, as most folks are not as concerned about modern clad coins.
Tom
Re: Fine tuning the CZ-3 Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: August 19, 2008 06:30AM
First,
Try an outdoor air-test with a dime. Settings:
Disc. = '0' (not auto-tune)
Sens. = '5'
Gnd Bal = '10'
Volume = '10'
Mode = 'enhance'
Keep the coil away from ALL metal objects. Do NOT place the dime on the ground. Keep the dime parallel (not tilted) to the coil...... wave the dime in front of the coil.....and report how far the unit will detect the dime. Should be around 11" (+/-) 1".
Re: Nickle readings on a CZ3D . Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: August 01, 2009 09:43AM
In 'Salt' mode on CZ-3D (or 'Normal' mode on non-CZ-3D units) nickels (never exposed to dirt) should ID as 'nickel' BUT.... with one stipulation; many Shield nickels will ID as 'foil'....especially the ones that have been exposed to dirt/mother nature. (This is 'air-test' results). Dirt corroded nickels of any era..... even in an air-test..... can ID as 'foil' with units that do not have the 'enhanced' mode....or you are in 'Salt' mode.
CZ-3D in 'enhanced' mode will bring nearly ALL "Dirt-corroded" nickels up into the 'nickel' (high tone) range.... in the real dirt. IF you were to pull 100 circulating nickels out of your pocket (never exposed to dirt//not dug)...and AIR-TEST whilst in 'enhanced' mode: approx 20% - 35% will ID as 'round-tab' w/according mid-tone.........with the remainder of the nickels properly ID'ing as 'nickel'. This is for CORRECTLY calibrated CZ-3D's.
Tom
Re: Correctly tuned CZ-3D Posted by: NASA-Tom (IP Logged)
Date: August 09, 2007 10:19AM
Hi Rich,
I have the original calibration & test "Standards" for the CZ-3D. I also have a set of cal & test standards..... and I would assume the new Fisher (First Texas) also has standards for all CZ's. These are items/tools/devices (usually test-targets) utilized to calibrate/align the "null" on electronic equipment......including metal detectors. ..... It sounds like your unit may have a stability problem, external electromagnetic interference exposure, bad ground mineralization or very trashy areas.
First; Discover if it is stable in open air (or bench tests).
Second; Discover if it is stable in a open field in the country where no targets exist.
Third; Force the unit to be 'unstable' and slowly (incrementally) alter the Grnd Bal control and seek to find a 'change/differential'.
Fourth; Discover if unit is stable at lower Sens settings.
Fifth; Discover if instability is in 'Salt mode' ,,, 'Normal mode' ,,, 'All-Metal mode' only...... or is in ALL modes.
Sincerely,
Tom
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