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What does one do in inclement weather
- Thread starter knarfj
- Start date
I'll tell ya whats fun...I get on Mapquest, and then zoom in on some town...then you can switch it to satellite view and sort of scope around the area for places to hunt...you get to see the affluent areas based upon the sizes of the yards and if theres backyard pools etc...you can find the old places and schools in town and see where all the parks or totlots are too...you can plot a good hunt this way...I dont have Google earth, or if theres some other site that might be in real time...that would be good to have looking for construction or tearouts if a guy had that...you can follow railroad tracks, creeks and streams trying to find a trestle or bridge someplace where the stream has been in the same bed for a while, swimming holes, sports fields, etc......you can sort of get an idea of where would be likely places to hunt by looking at a town through the satellite's eye.
Another thing thats sort of interesting is getting on Craigslist and reading the "lost and found"...sure its mainly pets, but if you type in "ring" or "bracelet" or "necklace" or "jewelry" in the search box, those pop up...not in an attempt to go and find that specific item, just to give a guy an idea of where things are lost, and how most people have really no idea where they lost something....Lots of them are lost at the mall, or at a school function, bar, restaurant, gym, etc...it sort of gives you an idea of the travel patterns of people...just read one where some lady lost a diamond tennis bracelet at the mall she thinks...and another guy lost a gold necklace behind a restaurant in the parking lot he thinks...so, during inclement weather, once your gear is sorted out, these two things are good excersizes...as are watching the detecting youtube vids of other hunters to gain some more knowledge through their experience...Big World, small coils, short time...
Mud.
Another thing thats sort of interesting is getting on Craigslist and reading the "lost and found"...sure its mainly pets, but if you type in "ring" or "bracelet" or "necklace" or "jewelry" in the search box, those pop up...not in an attempt to go and find that specific item, just to give a guy an idea of where things are lost, and how most people have really no idea where they lost something....Lots of them are lost at the mall, or at a school function, bar, restaurant, gym, etc...it sort of gives you an idea of the travel patterns of people...just read one where some lady lost a diamond tennis bracelet at the mall she thinks...and another guy lost a gold necklace behind a restaurant in the parking lot he thinks...so, during inclement weather, once your gear is sorted out, these two things are good excersizes...as are watching the detecting youtube vids of other hunters to gain some more knowledge through their experience...Big World, small coils, short time...
Mud.
pasttom said:Nice job! I looked at that and wondered what it would look like next to the same tests at +2 & +4 vs -2 & -4 on GB. Maybe next time it rains....
Well you caught me at a good time pasttom, it's still raining out.
Below are some more results I came up with using only a nickel, dime and a small gold ring. Why use one of every coin when just a one or a few will give the same results for this particular test. Out of curiosity during the test, while I was at threshold -5, I ran the sensitivity up to 80 and the the dime became detectable again at the same level it did at -3, 7 inches.
mudpuppy said:
Agreed, Iv'e been using Google Earth and 3-4 other map sources on the net but without much success. It seems like when I do locate a likely location be it an old school site or old lakeside camp it's now private property and inaccessible. But persistence in my friend and not every one watches "Diggers".
Will have to try scrutinizing Craigslist though.Take care & HH
Sorry guys and gals I couldn't leave out my newly acquired F70 air test results! 
From the interest shown in my previous air tests I'm sure all have been waiting with baited breath for these results.
I'm aware that air test results may or may not give any insight to either subject detectors performance in the real world but I still wanted to see how my F5 and F70 compared while in the Discrimination mode with this type of test.
One thing that stood out to me, using the same settings on both machines, was how fast the depth of detection dropped off on the F70 when the threshold # went negative? On the F5 it wasn't such a dramatic change.
As with the F5 I could again increase the depth of detection on the F70 about an inch by increasing the Sens/Gain to 80.
For reasons unbeknownst to me my F70 GB'd at 85 in lieu of the 75 GB the F5 did at the same ground location. The other F70 settings not shown are, speed DE and tones at 3H.
Oops! Not mentioned previously, my criteria for distance of detection during all tests has been: An audible tone, not broken and repeatable.
PS: Just read Muds post on another thread about Air Testing and it dawned on me I've never mentioned that my both my F series are equipped with the plain Concentric coils not DD coils.
Thanks for looking & HH
From the interest shown in my previous air tests I'm sure all have been waiting with baited breath for these results.
I'm aware that air test results may or may not give any insight to either subject detectors performance in the real world but I still wanted to see how my F5 and F70 compared while in the Discrimination mode with this type of test.
One thing that stood out to me, using the same settings on both machines, was how fast the depth of detection dropped off on the F70 when the threshold # went negative? On the F5 it wasn't such a dramatic change.
As with the F5 I could again increase the depth of detection on the F70 about an inch by increasing the Sens/Gain to 80.For reasons unbeknownst to me my F70 GB'd at 85 in lieu of the 75 GB the F5 did at the same ground location.
The other F70 settings not shown are, speed DE and tones at 3H. Oops! Not mentioned previously, my criteria for distance of detection during all tests has been: An audible tone, not broken and repeatable.
PS: Just read Muds post on another thread about Air Testing and it dawned on me I've never mentioned that my both my F series are equipped with the plain Concentric coils not DD coils.
Thanks for looking & HH
When I bought my F70 the dealer had an F5 lying right beside it on his display table in the basement. The F5 had a 11"DD and the F70 had the 10" elliptical coil. He had quite the assortment of samples taped to paint sticks and a ruler system to measure all tests pretty darn accurately. Every thing we passed in front of both machines came up nearly identically. The 70 hit on a gold ring a little deeper. Both machines were set at 60 sensitivity and 0 threshold. I didn't compare any VDI#. They were so close the only reason I got the 70 is AA batteries and also it was returned by a friend of the dealer because of the learning curve so I got it for $30.00 more than the F5. I didn't test the 70 with a DD coil because he didn't have one.
It would be nice to someday do some side-by-side comparisons of the 10 and 11" coils on a pair of 70's in a real park area or something...
The old dealer who sold me mine I got the 10 and the 11...He told me the 11 would really soup up this machine...Remember, I didn't know anything let alone what the difference in coils were, so I set up with the 11 and started hunting... I tried the 10 for half a day about a year after I was swinging the 11, found a nice silver mens bracelet, would have found that with the 11 though I am sure...I was keeping the 10 as a backup in case something ever went wrong with the 11, but last year I sold it to another Forum member and have been using the 11 all this time..theres a few other posters that use the 10...I am curious as to if the 10 would work using it to hop the coil like the 11 does, or if this tactic only works with DD coils??.
Still, it is very interesting to read the depth tests and what you found out about the -thresh reduces depth considerably...me running low 50 sens with a -3, never ground balancing, you would'nt think I'd find anything wouldja? 'Course, there is a LOT of targets in the top 4" of dirt...maybe for modern park and sportsfield hunting thats all a guy needs?
Mud
The old dealer who sold me mine I got the 10 and the 11...He told me the 11 would really soup up this machine...Remember, I didn't know anything let alone what the difference in coils were, so I set up with the 11 and started hunting... I tried the 10 for half a day about a year after I was swinging the 11, found a nice silver mens bracelet, would have found that with the 11 though I am sure...I was keeping the 10 as a backup in case something ever went wrong with the 11, but last year I sold it to another Forum member and have been using the 11 all this time..theres a few other posters that use the 10...I am curious as to if the 10 would work using it to hop the coil like the 11 does, or if this tactic only works with DD coils??.
Still, it is very interesting to read the depth tests and what you found out about the -thresh reduces depth considerably...me running low 50 sens with a -3, never ground balancing, you would'nt think I'd find anything wouldja?
'Course, there is a LOT of targets in the top 4" of dirt...maybe for modern park and sportsfield hunting thats all a guy needs? Mud
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Good job, knarfj
This is what all F5 owners should be doing so they can understand the relationship of the Gain and Threshold controls. Chart it out and then review it. You will notice there are multiple settings to achieve a desired outcome so if your site doesn't like one particular setting you can try a different one. It is a lot of work but it is worthwhile.
When you finish that, then take a look at the ground balance settings so you will understand those as well.
HH
Mike
This is what all F5 owners should be doing so they can understand the relationship of the Gain and Threshold controls. Chart it out and then review it. You will notice there are multiple settings to achieve a desired outcome so if your site doesn't like one particular setting you can try a different one. It is a lot of work but it is worthwhile.
When you finish that, then take a look at the ground balance settings so you will understand those as well.
HH
Mike
Mike Hillis
Well-known member
Pastor Tom,
The F5 has a total number of 1039 ground adjustment points best I recall without looking at my notes. There are, on average, 10 ground balance adjustment points between numbers on the F5 (some only have 8 points, most have 10, some have 14 points) and you won't see any difference in air testing between them.
You only see air testing differences with ground balance adjustments on low conductors when you start to bring your ground balance below 30 and continue moving toward a zero setting.
You can only test the differences ground balance has on depth with settings above 30 on targets in the ground.
HH
Mike
The F5 has a total number of 1039 ground adjustment points best I recall without looking at my notes. There are, on average, 10 ground balance adjustment points between numbers on the F5 (some only have 8 points, most have 10, some have 14 points) and you won't see any difference in air testing between them.
You only see air testing differences with ground balance adjustments on low conductors when you start to bring your ground balance below 30 and continue moving toward a zero setting.
You can only test the differences ground balance has on depth with settings above 30 on targets in the ground.
HH
Mike
Knarfj. -- Funny, concerning the nickel readings, with my F70, I find them in the strong mid 30 range, not the foil range, maybe the scale is different for the f5? My foil range is in the 20s and my nickels in the 30s a steady thirty, but when I increased my Sens to 70 I began finding nickels up into the mid 40 range, that would be from 31-46, the Nickel Tab range on my F70. I have my Disc set at 16 but have never found a nickel below the 30 range? Maybe the F5 is different in this reading?
Thanks for the Chart it shows a pattern and some very interesting finding -- really good stuff and with everyone else thanks for the info. On the Nickels, I used to find quit a few with the Notch set to cancel out foil - skip over nickel range and cancel out tabs -- and I found nickels in the nickel range. My finding of nickel compared to my White's hunting partner was an easy 4 to 1, then I took all Notching off and just set my Sens level to 16, to stay away from nails and bamm, I doubled my Nickel finds but never found one nickel below the 30 reading. peace, Dan
Thanks for the Chart it shows a pattern and some very interesting finding -- really good stuff and with everyone else thanks for the info. On the Nickels, I used to find quit a few with the Notch set to cancel out foil - skip over nickel range and cancel out tabs -- and I found nickels in the nickel range. My finding of nickel compared to my White's hunting partner was an easy 4 to 1, then I took all Notching off and just set my Sens level to 16, to stay away from nails and bamm, I doubled my Nickel finds but never found one nickel below the 30 reading. peace, Dan
knarfj said:Sorry guys and gals I couldn't leave out my newly acquired F70 air test results!
From the interest shown in my previous air tests I'm sure all have been waiting with baited breath for these results.
I'm aware that air test results may or may not give any insight to either subject detectors performance in the real world but I still wanted to see how my F5 and F70 compared while in the Discrimination mode with this type of test.
One thing that stood out to me, using the same settings on both machines, was how fast the depth of detection dropped off on the F70 when the threshold # went negative? On the F5 it wasn't such a dramatic change.
For reasons unbeknownst to me my F70 GB'd at 85 in lieu of the 75 GB the F5 did at the same ground location.
Oops! Not mentioned previously, my criteria for distance of detection during all tests has been: An audible tone, not broken and repeatable.
PS: Just read Muds post on another thread about Air Testing and it dawned on me I've never mentioned that my both my F series are equipped with the plain Concentric coils not DD coils.
Thanks for looking & HH
Well OK Dumb S--t, wheres the threshold tests results from your F70??
Well Duh!!!
Sorry folks! After all the above lip service I forgot to post them. :blush:
MarkCZ
Well-known member
Threshold and Sensitivity.
Detectors like the F5 that have both normally has the MOST depth when the two controls are at the max setting.
But there is few places where they can be ran that HOT! and run stable and not false. Often times smaller coils can help get towards the max settings and or areas out away from everything (No Electric, No Cars, No Power Lines, No Houses)
Max settings would be something like this,
Sensitivity =99
Threshold =0
Now, the above would give you max depth in your air test, but your probably in the house and can't get that hot of a setting. So, in the house or in the field you would want to lower the settings until the machine isn't falsing, but maybe still some chatter.
Don't work the two so wide spread from each other, try to work them together somewhat.
Start off with something like this,
Sensitivity =85
threshold =-1
If its still to noisy or falsing then step it down again,
Sensitivity =85
Threshold =-3
Still not runnable, try
75/-3
Now, lets say your out hunting a fairground for shallow clad, you may try something like this,
40/-5 (or even lower if the grass isn't very tall.
Now, if you were trying to find a smaller piece of fresh dropped gold jewelry you may try this,
99/-6
It helped me to think about the two controls like this,
Sensitivity is how sensitive the detector is to smaller or deeper things and it adjust the detection circuit.
The Threshold is on the other side of things, it adjust the audio circuits trigger, or its gate. It sets the threshold to which the audio amp sends a report to the operator. The closer to "0" the more jumpy it goes off, you could say, set at "0" the audio circuit has little resistance to going off (its tickly) The farther into the minus numbers the stiffer or more resistance it has to send a report.
So, a tiny piece of fresh dropped gold jewelry would mean that it may take a high level of sensitivity for the detection circuit to pick it up, but you may not need that light of a trigger on the audio circuit, so a setting of 99/-6 or 95/-6 may get you what you need and still be pretty stable.
Like Mike was saying, learning the two and how they work together should really wake up the detector.
Mark
Detectors like the F5 that have both normally has the MOST depth when the two controls are at the max setting.
But there is few places where they can be ran that HOT! and run stable and not false. Often times smaller coils can help get towards the max settings and or areas out away from everything (No Electric, No Cars, No Power Lines, No Houses)
Max settings would be something like this,
Sensitivity =99
Threshold =0
Now, the above would give you max depth in your air test, but your probably in the house and can't get that hot of a setting. So, in the house or in the field you would want to lower the settings until the machine isn't falsing, but maybe still some chatter.
Don't work the two so wide spread from each other, try to work them together somewhat.
Start off with something like this,
Sensitivity =85
threshold =-1
If its still to noisy or falsing then step it down again,
Sensitivity =85
Threshold =-3
Still not runnable, try
75/-3
Now, lets say your out hunting a fairground for shallow clad, you may try something like this,
40/-5 (or even lower if the grass isn't very tall.
Now, if you were trying to find a smaller piece of fresh dropped gold jewelry you may try this,
99/-6
It helped me to think about the two controls like this,
Sensitivity is how sensitive the detector is to smaller or deeper things and it adjust the detection circuit.
The Threshold is on the other side of things, it adjust the audio circuits trigger, or its gate. It sets the threshold to which the audio amp sends a report to the operator. The closer to "0" the more jumpy it goes off, you could say, set at "0" the audio circuit has little resistance to going off (its tickly) The farther into the minus numbers the stiffer or more resistance it has to send a report.
So, a tiny piece of fresh dropped gold jewelry would mean that it may take a high level of sensitivity for the detection circuit to pick it up, but you may not need that light of a trigger on the audio circuit, so a setting of 99/-6 or 95/-6 may get you what you need and still be pretty stable.
Like Mike was saying, learning the two and how they work together should really wake up the detector.
Mark
Interesting how the F5 actually had a deeper air test at -2 than it did at 0 especially in the gold. I'm wondering how the 5"x8" DD would compare to the elliptical on the F5. I'm thinking since my wife and grandson didn't take to detecting like I did that maybe the F5 and the small DD might be a fun addition to the arsenal.
IBdiggin said:
Not sure why the anomaly in the depth readings IB? Out of curiosity I ran that small part of the test again and came up with slightly different readings. The readings at the -2 and 0 Thresh. level in question came up with nickle=9, dime=8, and ring=9 in both?? Could be O.E., temp. change of as Mud likes to say "Sun Spots"' who knows?
For better or worse I started having so much fun doing these air tests that I whipped out a few more using my F70. I feel the following give a good visual picture how depth of detection is or is not affected by making individual changes to the Discr. and Thresh. settings or individually.
HH
Interesting. There must be some correlation between these variances and VDI #s as well. I have had this haunting memory from this one particular hunt where this one nickel came in at 28 while about every other one I've had was 30 to 32 and I never knew why. I don't remember my settings from that hunt but you can bet I will be looking for that 28 nickel next time I go -3------------------------HH and at the risk of being politically incorrect,,,,,,,,,,a Very Merry Christmas And a Happy Happy 
this is really cool Knarfj.!..been studying it all morning! Thank you for your research! More, More! Somebody give this guy a 11DD!..
the whole threshold/disc thing you know...looks like sub 5 disc with a -2 or -3 is a good place to operate hunting clad and jewelry...seems a higher disc and a lower thresh really drops targets quickly after that...I remember one day a few years back Zeekeys ran a -7 thresh and killed clad in the trash, which is good to remember if you are cladgrabbing the trash...I remember giving it a shot with the usual success as a cladstabber too...but really like the -3 in my area because the target signature seems really "tight", and seems the proportional audio (signal strength to depth) is right on, plus every once in a while a 6-7" target pings in that is usually silver.. ...IBdiggin, ! do get N's at 28 TID if they are deeper than 5" any shallower than that, they are 32-34 ...the proportional audio and tight target signature lets a guy know immediately if its a dime at 3" or 4" or surface...( I hate those surface targets the most, double ping, in the grass, hard to stab) I am not kidding...a nice 2-3" coin is just perfect for a quick one stab, stoop and grab target...This graph could come in pretty handy for somebody new with these F machines...save them a lot of real world fooling around and frustration..
Mud
..been studying it all morning! Thank you for your research! More, More! Somebody give this guy a 11DD!..the whole threshold/disc thing you know...looks like sub 5 disc with a -2 or -3 is a good place to operate hunting clad and jewelry...seems a higher disc and a lower thresh really drops targets quickly after that...I remember one day a few years back Zeekeys ran a -7 thresh and killed clad in the trash, which is good to remember if you are cladgrabbing the trash...I remember giving it a shot with the usual success as a cladstabber too...but really like the -3 in my area because the target signature seems really "tight", and seems the proportional audio (signal strength to depth) is right on, plus every once in a while a 6-7" target pings in that is usually silver.. ...IBdiggin, ! do get N's at 28 TID if they are deeper than 5" any shallower than that, they are 32-34 ...the proportional audio and tight target signature lets a guy know immediately if its a dime at 3" or 4" or surface...( I hate those surface targets the most, double ping, in the grass, hard to stab) I am not kidding...a nice 2-3" coin is just perfect for a quick one stab, stoop and grab target...This graph could come in pretty handy for somebody new with these F machines...save them a lot of real world fooling around and frustration..
Mud