Viper, (water machine) by Cobra. Any info???

[beachguy777]

What's up with this bad boy??? Kellyco sent me an email advertising it and it looked very interesting for the price so I called them. The girl, (out of character for Kellyco) acted like I was from another planet then said, Oh yea, we're out of them till October so call us back for a price. At first they wanted about 225+/_, but when I asked her she said they were probably in the $ 400 range. Still sounds interesting for a waterproof unit from China. I know China is competing with us heavly with copy type units of a lot of things for unbelievably low prices. That gets my attention, so I wondered if anyone knew anything about this machine. Just a heads up, .... might be a good deal for us poor folks who can't afford an Excallibur yet.

 

[SharkHunter]

n/t

 

[GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va]

n/t

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

It doesn't take an Excalibur long to pay for itself. It may take the rest of your life with that "Peking Pogostick". Forget it. Save your pennies and get an Excalibur.

 

[David from Suffolk]

This is my first year Metal Detecting and so I looked around and figured out that the Excalibur was the best machine out there so that is what I went with. As you can see from these photos it has not let me down and I am very happy with my first summer finds and all the great people I have met with this hobby.[attachment 6909 GoldandSilver.JPG]

Here is a close up of the Gold[attachment 6908 Summer2005.JPG]

 

[beachguy777]

Wow, that speaks volumes for you and the Excalibur. That's some great loot you got there. Just curious, about how deep do you need to go in the water to search for this stuff? I know some people are out neck deep, some are knee deep. At any rate, that's a fine collection.

 

[beachguy777]

I love the name you gave that thing, Mike. Peking Pogostick. I'm still chuckeling. Well I know darn well you're not just picking up bobby pins with your Excalibur. The other thing I was worried about with the "China model" is: How's the mineralization thing with the salt water and such. I know that even the Minelab Musketeer gave me fits when I used it in the water, that's a big reason why I traded it in for the Quatro. Yea, I know you guys are right, I just need to save my money for the "real deal". Thanks again for the feed back.

 

[Swansea jack]

n/t

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

I saw where you asked somebody else where they are finding most of this stuff...how far out in the water you have to go. Well, of course there IS stuff out in the water. And I have done a LITTLE "waist and chest deep" detecting, without much luck and it's hard to make recoveries in that deep of water.

BUT...the majority of the stuff I find (and the gold rings, silver rings, chains, watches, etc. are MANY) I have found in the wet sand at the water's edge at low tide. And the majority of the folks I know that hunt here hunt the same way. We all work the water a little bit, but it's mostly down at the waterline and in the middle of the wet sand, between the water and thedry sand. That's why going at low tide is important...to get "in the zone". And maybe in up to a foot or two of water...like to get in the through or to the rock-crush line. Which you often see at low tide anyway, without getting in more than a few inches of water. And you have the PERFECT machine for that kind of hunting. The Quattro kicks butt in the wet sand.

So before you go spending a whole bunch of money on a new water machine, how about getting out to the beach with the Quattro and doing some wet sand hunting? You're in San Diego, right? With the beaches you have there you should be finding all kinds of rings by now. Are you doing much hunting? And if so, when and where? I want to see some rings!

 

[SharkHunter]

n/t

 

[Bowtie41]

By the response you just gave,you seem to be very knowledgable about the beaches.I usually get to them once,sometimes twice a year(I live by Mississippi River),and this will be my first time with a detector.My question is,if you are at the water line at low tide like you spoke of,and put a marker there,when the surf is at high tide waterline,what would the difference in depth be?I understand this would vary with the rake angle/slope of the beach,but I was wondering if you had a "ballpark" figure.This is just a matter of curiosity with me,and I thank you in advance for your time.

Kirk

 

[beachguy777]

Is that Fisher CZ20 a pulse induction unit. If it is I think I heard great things about it. I gudss some of the PI units are great for depth, not too good on discrimination, but again, who cares at the beach. Easier to dig.

 

[beachguy777]

Boy, Mike you're right on top of it. You know, I have been hunting in that area, and havn't found any rings, but I know other guys have in San Diego have found pleanty of rings. Maybe I'm not doing enought time on the beach. Also, I've mainly been sticking to a place called dog beach, so I can take my dog, but you know, I N E E D to leave her home and get serious and go to some of the other really busy beaches, busy meaning tourist ridden. We have pleanty of them. That's a good challenge, cause I'm getting pretty bummed out not finding any rings. I know this detector is a good one. I't got to be me, probably not in the right places.

 

[beachguy777]

Bowtie41. Keep listening to Mike. He's the man on this stuff, but something I wanted to say is: Wow!!! If you live next to the Missippi River., you ought to have some great places to detect. I spent a night or two in Nachez years a go with a C&W band, and I know that place is old. You might find some great stuff next to the Missippi because it's so old. Think of the old gamblers, river boats, dock loading places, etc. Might be a gold mine, but as far as the beach goes, especially, Mike knows his stuff and I'm right with you listing to his tips. He's right about digging in the deeper water, its a real ordeal. Can be done, but it takes knowledge and practice, both of which I don't have in that area. I like your marker idea. Just like Mike said earlier, we've got to study the beaches and deal with it intuitively and methodically. At least I believe that because other wise you're just hunting blindly without any real game plan. There's got to be a reason these guys are always finding more stuff, other than just plain ammout of hours spent hunting or just blind luck, as long as you have a good detector and know it well. At least that's my take on it. I guess like anything else it's a combination of things.

 

[BarnacleBill]

CZ20 is a VLF. But be careful about sweeping statements like "but again, who cares at the beach. Easier to dig."

There are beaches that are heavily infested with iron. i.e. The "Old Orchard Beach", in Maine, itinially had a 1770ft steel pier 20ft above the water. It was damaged and 700ft was left, then later completely wiped out. In 1907 the whole beachfront burnt down (nails?).

So after a good nor'easter how much iron might be moved ashore? I also believe down in the NJ/NY area there are badly infested beaches from destroyed piers and boardwalks.

Beep-dig is a wonderful concept, but you may spend the whole day beep-digging, and NOT have time to find any worthwhile targets. On a large beach, "Time Management" is more important than Beep-dig.

Some PI's are supposed to have very good depth, but the top VLF's Fisher & Minelab are no slouches. See my post below "Dancing with Ophelia". But keep in mind in reading it that I know my machine very well. You are not going to buy one tomorrow, and walk onto the beach and do what I can do. By the same token if I bought an Excal I would have a hill to climb to come up to the speed of most of the guys who post here that use them.

And I'll just throw this in for free advice, this weekend I watched six different detectorists stroll down the beach, penduluming their coils like they were knocking golf balls out of the way. So they were cutting about an effective 6 inch wide path down the beach, they should be covering about 6 ft wide. Oh well, more targets left for me, and they all left after about 30 minutes each, because there were no targets.

HH
BarnacleBill

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

It's about 4 feet, Bowtie. As you can see from my attached pic of today's tide table (from a program I use to track same) we have a significant "Positive high tide" today, where it comes in higher than normal. That's a good thing, but we like also to see a "Negative low tide", where it goes out farther than normal, getting us closer than usual to "the booty".

So as you can see, what is "wet sand" at low tide was at least waist-deep (to nearly chest deep) at high tide. So that would be where a lot of your swimmers were standing when they were losing their stuff. And it's also a low spot, where a lot of stuff settles and burrows down in the sand. Particularly if there is a trough or gulley there, where the crushed shells and sometimes rings like to hide.

Check it out:

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

That's a good synopsis of how it works, Beach. I think one of the things you mentioned is probably worth more than most of the rest and that is the time put in. Fact is, from one day to the next things can and do change drastically at the beach. So if you have a lousy hunt today, you can go back tomorrow and do the same darn thing and hit it big. And then there's "dumb luck". One killer diamond ring find can make an otherwise lousy hunt a huge success.

But I also don't want to take away from the fact that it DOES help to know your beaches, the tides, winds, currents, etc. Because that's what drives the movement of the sand and the covering up of or the uncovering of the good stuff. And the "bringing in" and "bringing out" of it too. It's constantly moving and you have to maximize your chances of catching it. Another good thing is to "case the joint", like thieves do. Not that we are like thieves. But go to the beach during peak usage times. See where the folks are. Where are the heaviest concentrations? Where do they put their blankets? Where do they swim? Where are the surfers (more silver jewelry there) and where are the tourists (more gold) and where are the hot spots the locals like (less there because they know better and tend to wear less jewelry).

Lots of variables to consider...

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Go to those tourist-laden beaches and pound that wet sand relentlessly. Find the "coin line" and follow it and it will lead to a ring or two. You have to find the "drop zone", the place where the stuff has been getting deposited (for that day)...or the areas that have been uncovered...by the tide and currents. Of course, in "tourist-laden" areas there is always the liklihood of a "fresh drop" or two and then all bets are off...could be anywhere.

But "tourist-laden" is the key. You won't find it if it's not being dropped in the first place.

 

[Bowtie41]

Thanks for both of your responses!!This will definately be the "dumb luck" trip of the year,as this will be my first detector,and first time using one period.But,I've learned alot from this forum the last couple months.Up till now,I never worried about tides,The wife,kids,and I just ran till we hit water,LOL!Thanks for the info about the tides,the marker idea was just so you'd understand the point I was trying to make.The tide chart explained it all clearly.I'll definately take heed to your advice about rough hunting in the deep stuff,especially with my bad back/neck,this was just a matter of curiosity.Thanks for the tip about river sites too,beachguy.I live about 5 miles from St. Louis on the Illinois side.If you've never been here,there is a lock/dam system that bypasses the Mississippi through here.Where I live live,at the north portion,there are plenty of places that get low enough in the river,you can actually walk across it.On the Mo side,there used to be a amusement park on the bluffs long before I moved here in 1976.It's full of "snooty people" now,but there is road access to the riverbank,and a park.I'll bet there's finds there.Thanks again for the posts,and now I got to thinking,if people are waist/neck deep at low tide,what did THEY lose?LOL

Kirk

 

[Mike (Virginia Beach)]

Kirk,

Glad to help. And good luck on your hunt.

I'll just add a few things:

1) I don't doubt that the majority of the goodies are in the deeper water. But they can and DO come into the shallower water and the wet sand. And after a good storm, can make the trip from a hundred feet offshore to 100 feet up over the dry sand. There is usually plenty to dig in the wet sand and shallow water to keep me digging plenty of good stuff and it's a whole lot easier and a little safer than deeper hunting.

2) I like to run an "S" pattern in the wet sand, between the waters edge and the top of the wet sand. When you beging to hit a few targets, slow down and start grid-walking it from the water to the top of the wet sand. Finally, if you discover you have found a "line" of targets, like if you see they are all in a row someplace in the middle of the wet sand, then follow the line. That's what I do and it's done well for me.