I want to go after those faint, deep signals when relic hunting, but I want to find MORE of those signals. I have a Minelab X-70, but don't know yet if it will get on down there like a Tesoro. I can get a new machine, if one will make an impressive difference, or just supe-up my good old Silver with a big coil, if that will do the same. Thanks for any opinions!!
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Vaquero, Tejon, or big coil for my Silver uMax?
- Thread starter Dirt Poor
- Start date
amcjavelin
Active member
if it's relics you want get the tejon it's got the horse power under the hood and if thats to much money the vaq is in second command, i've dug brass lamp mantles 12'' deep easy! with the tejon!
I've used the Tejon and the Silver uMax with both the 8 and 12x10 coils.
Take both machines with their stock coils and the Tejon gets about 1.5 inch more than the Silver on a dime (or 7 inches).
But remember, the Tejon comes with a 9x8 concentric coil and the Silver comes with a round 8" concentric coil. Put the 9x8 coil on the Silver uMax and you should have a Tejon.
Many of us have tried in vain to get Tesoro to make a 12x10 concentric coil for the Tejon but they say it would be too unstable. But in fact the Silver uMax with the 12x10 will usually beat the Tejon in average soil.
All the Cibola (super tuned) and Tejon are, are uMax machines with extra amplification in the receive section of the machine. So, weaker signals may be heard a little easier but with the downside of more noise from ground minerals. So in the case of the Tejon they added ground balance which serves the purpose of helping to squelch out some of that mineral background noise so one can more easily hear those ultra weak signals.
Lots of people think the ground balance control makes the transmitted signal of the TR detector (all our VLF machines today are TR machines working at very low frequency) go deeper into the soil and this is not so. Take two VLF detectors made alike except one has ground balance and the other doesn't and both machines will transmit their signals at exactly the same depth no matter what the soil conditions may be. However, if mineral conditions get more intense, the ground balance feature will make it easier to hear the deepest and weakest signals. These signals may be heard with the machine with no ground balance but one has to learn how to discern false from true signals. This takes a little experience and sometimes good headphones.
See, ground balance is sort ta like a hearing aid to help people who can't distinguish the ultra weak target signals from ground mineralization. Sorry, the ground balance feature is not a metal detector gas pedal. It's really more of a hearing/filtering device. Does it really add more depth in the sense that one can hear deeper targets that the factory preset machines will miss? That's a highly debatable subject and has caused some flame wars I'm sure. If there is any advantage we're probably looking more at fractions of an inch. But personally I doubt there's any difference.
Take both machines with their stock coils and the Tejon gets about 1.5 inch more than the Silver on a dime (or 7 inches).
But remember, the Tejon comes with a 9x8 concentric coil and the Silver comes with a round 8" concentric coil. Put the 9x8 coil on the Silver uMax and you should have a Tejon.
Many of us have tried in vain to get Tesoro to make a 12x10 concentric coil for the Tejon but they say it would be too unstable. But in fact the Silver uMax with the 12x10 will usually beat the Tejon in average soil.
All the Cibola (super tuned) and Tejon are, are uMax machines with extra amplification in the receive section of the machine. So, weaker signals may be heard a little easier but with the downside of more noise from ground minerals. So in the case of the Tejon they added ground balance which serves the purpose of helping to squelch out some of that mineral background noise so one can more easily hear those ultra weak signals.
Lots of people think the ground balance control makes the transmitted signal of the TR detector (all our VLF machines today are TR machines working at very low frequency) go deeper into the soil and this is not so. Take two VLF detectors made alike except one has ground balance and the other doesn't and both machines will transmit their signals at exactly the same depth no matter what the soil conditions may be. However, if mineral conditions get more intense, the ground balance feature will make it easier to hear the deepest and weakest signals. These signals may be heard with the machine with no ground balance but one has to learn how to discern false from true signals. This takes a little experience and sometimes good headphones.
See, ground balance is sort ta like a hearing aid to help people who can't distinguish the ultra weak target signals from ground mineralization. Sorry, the ground balance feature is not a metal detector gas pedal. It's really more of a hearing/filtering device. Does it really add more depth in the sense that one can hear deeper targets that the factory preset machines will miss? That's a highly debatable subject and has caused some flame wars I'm sure. If there is any advantage we're probably looking more at fractions of an inch. But personally I doubt there's any difference.
Thanks! I may just do that. The money isn't gonna be an issue.amcjavelin said:if it's relics you want get the tejon it's got the horse power under the hood and if thats to much money the vaq is in second command, i've dug brass lamp mantles 12'' deep easy! with the tejon!
You're welcome.
Here's another view of ground balance (GB).
GB is a lot like putting ear plugs in your ears to tone-down the sounds around you.
GB balances the machine to ground minerals so the machine no longer sees them. Now the minerals are still there but now the detector has a deaf ear toward them.
GB was made because most people want "silent search." This is also the main reason companies took away the threshold knobs from their machines. Hearing a weak constant super sensitive hum of the detector can add depth of detection to a machine but people want "silent search." This removing of the threshold knob was a bad move but nearly earyone praised the move. Today it's "turn on and go" for most people except for those who know better and are serious about finding treasure.
See, companies always give us what they think we want because they want to make a profit.
Anyway, back to GB.
GB doesn't make a detector's signal go deeper, it basically makes the machine a little deaf. Now what about real targets that are as weak in signal as the ground mineral sounds? Guess what, they also get tuned out with the minerals. See, the deeper a target gets the more it takes on the nature of the ground minerals around it. A silver dime at 10 inches can sound almost like a small iron target and it may even read as iron on the meter. The distance from the coil to the coin with all the opposition in between (minerals) causes the detector to make a false audio and visual report. This is where the experienced THer really shines. He knows those sounds and can pick out those tiny "tics" from all the mineral sounds. This is one of the secrets used by the Nautilus crowd when they hunt deep buttons with that 15 inch coil.
Is auto GB a good thing? Personally I don't think so. In auto GB the machine electronically turns a deaf ear to weak received signals for the purpose of giving the user "silent search." I've often wondered how many tiny weak signals form deep coins are missed due to auto GB. If one is to use GB the manual GB is best because one has more control over the extent of GB employed.
Well, got to get to work so that's all have time for.
Best
Here's another view of ground balance (GB).
GB is a lot like putting ear plugs in your ears to tone-down the sounds around you.
GB balances the machine to ground minerals so the machine no longer sees them. Now the minerals are still there but now the detector has a deaf ear toward them.
GB was made because most people want "silent search." This is also the main reason companies took away the threshold knobs from their machines. Hearing a weak constant super sensitive hum of the detector can add depth of detection to a machine but people want "silent search." This removing of the threshold knob was a bad move but nearly earyone praised the move. Today it's "turn on and go" for most people except for those who know better and are serious about finding treasure.
See, companies always give us what they think we want because they want to make a profit.
Anyway, back to GB.
GB doesn't make a detector's signal go deeper, it basically makes the machine a little deaf. Now what about real targets that are as weak in signal as the ground mineral sounds? Guess what, they also get tuned out with the minerals. See, the deeper a target gets the more it takes on the nature of the ground minerals around it. A silver dime at 10 inches can sound almost like a small iron target and it may even read as iron on the meter. The distance from the coil to the coin with all the opposition in between (minerals) causes the detector to make a false audio and visual report. This is where the experienced THer really shines. He knows those sounds and can pick out those tiny "tics" from all the mineral sounds. This is one of the secrets used by the Nautilus crowd when they hunt deep buttons with that 15 inch coil.
Is auto GB a good thing? Personally I don't think so. In auto GB the machine electronically turns a deaf ear to weak received signals for the purpose of giving the user "silent search." I've often wondered how many tiny weak signals form deep coins are missed due to auto GB. If one is to use GB the manual GB is best because one has more control over the extent of GB employed.
Well, got to get to work so that's all have time for.
Best
Thanks, T. I've been diging since 1980, and I've owned machines with just manual GB, and Auto GB, as well as no GB. I started out with the old White's analog machines that you had to GB most every time you used them. I remember getting good depth back then with those faint signals. It was always a matter of digging a little bit, and if the signal got stronger, it was usually a good thing. Found some artillery shells around Petersburg that way.
Well, I respect everybody's opinion. I've always hunted with stock coils on my machines, but I have an Exterra 70 with 3 coils, so I'll switch them out some. I really don't think there's a whole lot of difference between the depth capabilities of the "higher-end" Tesoros. I'm sure there may be some, but ground conditions probably play as much of a role as machine model.