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:usmc: All Metal Sensitivity/ Gain On X-70 >>

Reconmarine63

New member
An few hunters including myself wonder what Is the "True Sen. level" settings are in the All- Metal mode in comparison to adjustment to sen to all pattern and Disc Mode. I'm sure the Sen. setting from 0 -30 does affect All metal circuit but does in Disc. mode etc. We may have get folks at Min lab explain the gain/ sen. in All metal mode etc.
 
I'm not one of the folks at Minelab and my opinions are just that, my opinions. But based on several tests I've done over the course of the past two years, I am of the belief that the All-Metal function of the Coin/Treasure mode in the X-Terra is not "true" all-metal. What they have labeled as All-Metal seems (to me) to be more like a fourth Pattern. One that was factory preset with zero discrimination, locked in and labled All-Metal.

Like I said, I don't know how Minelab would respond. Hopefully they will. But IF my theory is true (and I stress IF), the response to Sensitivity settings between a Pattern and what is referred to as "All Metal" will be the same, because they only represent different degrees of target rejection in the Coin/Treasure mode. In other words, if you set one of your Patterns to zero rejection, I think it would precisely duplicate what is referred to as All-Metal. JMHO HH Randy
 
Hi,

I believe I understand you, but you may want to clarify your post. The X-70 does indeed have a true all metal mode, but it's called the Prospecting mode. This is a threshold based All Metal mode.

However, the ALL METAL button is as you said a ZERO DISC mode that has what I refer to as a <i><big>fake</i></big> threshold. Yes, it will NULL out over rejected targets, but it's not a real threshold based all metal mode per se. Just by switching back and forth between the two modes (Prospecting vs All metal) one can hear the difference between real and fake.

What Minelab should have done was make the ALL METAL button the Prospecting all metal mode button instead. But then again, most users won't use the prospecting mode so it would serve no purpose for them.

It sure would for Me !!! :detecting:
 
I should have made it clear that when the threshold NULLS out in the fake threshold DISC modes that it applies to the other patterns that do reject, and not the All metal DISC mode pattern that accepts all targets with no rejection.

The point I was making is that the Prospecting mode threshold is diffferent than all patterns of the DISC mode thresholds.

J in VA
 
Hi J,

I usually operate my 70 in all metal but have done as Randy suggested in the past which was just to go to pattern 1 and then using the reject/accept button removed the iron disc and it does seem to operate the same. Ive set it up this way and checked targets many times and found no difference.
When you refer to a fake threshold can you tell me what you mean and also how that would relate to say a Sov or Explorer, would you consider those fake threshold machines also?
I have used the prospecting mode a bit on my 70 and it sounds like it operates through some type VCO sound. The threshold on it will also blank over a rejected target(since it works with iron mask). No doubt the prospecting mode is deeper than the other modes.

Maybe someone can explain the difference between disc and "true all metal".

HH
Neil
 
Neil, Thanks for your post. I agree with most of what you stated. The only thing I'm not convinced of is that on-going question of which is deeper, Prospecting or Coin/Treasure? I'll share my thoughts on that matter at the end of this post.

In an effort to answer your question about comparing all-metal with zero discrimination......Consider that the term ferrous represents a substance containing iron. Conductive means the substance's ability to transmit electrical current. To me, All-Metal represents a detecting mode where every target with either ferrous or conductive properties will be detected. No matter how ferrous or conductive they are, it will detect them. I say no matter how ferrous because highly mineralized ground can contain varying degrees of ferrous properties. (iron) Adjusting the GB will further "cancel out" the effects of these ferrous properties caused by mineralization. With zero discrimination, the detector will only respond to targets that register (ferrous and conductivity) levels within the parameters set up by the designer. That ain't a bad thing as it should encompass virtually every (non-soil) target we will encounter. For those properties that are not included, we'll never hear them to know what they might have been!

My opinion on Threshold.....The threshold tone of the X-Terra is a separate tone whose level of sound can be adjusted to the user's preference. This tone allows the user to hear a rejected target "blank out" while hunting in a discrimination Pattern. For those hunting in All-Metal mode, it provides a background tone to let us know that the detector is still working! It ain't magic. And it is not a replication of what the "coil is actually "seeing". In fact, it can't be a replication of what the coil is seeing. If it were, and there was nothing under the coil, it would go silent. And that really wouldn't be a threshold, would it? Back to whether or not it is "fake". From the point of view that it is a synthesized tone, I suppose it might be considered a "fake" tone. But if we hold that to be true, aren't all the tones produced by the detector fake? If they weren't, how could the user set the number of tones they want to hear? One tone, two tone, three tone, four tone or multiple-tone? A nickel will read a 10 or 12 on the TID. But with the X-70 set at two tones, it will sound a lot different than if you were set to hear one tone, three tones, four tones or multi-tones! That nickel is still the same old nickel, no matter how many tones you are listening to. If the tones weren't "fake" (or at least synthesized), how could they be changed for specific notch segments?

At the beginning of this post, I said I agreed with much of what you said. The only difference of opinion we might have is on the depth of detection between Prospecting and C/T. For the type of hunting I do, I am not convinced that the Prospecting mode operates deeper than the C/T mode, using the same sized coil. That don't mean you are not correct. I just haven't been convinced of it! I know my thoughts might be biased since I don't use the Prospecting mode for actual coin or relic hunting and only use it for target sizing and pinpointing AFTER I hit a target in C/T. Regardless, IF the Prospecting mode does hunt deeper, (and it might?) I guess I consider the "trade offs" for a coinshooter to be well worth using C/T. Variable defined tones, additional TID information etc. You gotta love the flexibility of the X-Terra!!! JMHO

HH Randy
 
If it were true all metal with no discrimination at all it would drift like the old machines used to do.
Remember the red knob on the end of handle? You use to have to hit it every few feet just to keep it from picking up the ground. So yes Sir, I agree..it's near all metal, but has some for sure discrimination built in for stability.
 
Hi Randy,

First off, let me say that you are a great guy with all the effort you go to explaining things to X-Terra users. I have learned many things from your posts.

But to keep it short I have to say that the Prospecting Mode blows away the "All Metal" or any other mode on the X-Terra 70. The All Metal mode is indeed a disc mode with all items set to accept. I'm no tech, but things are obviously still being filtered, but the filters are just being to set to say OK to everything. But the filters interfere with absolute performance.

Just go hunt a small area in any Pattern or All Metal Mode. Then go back and hunt the same area in Prospecting Mode. If that does not make you a believer I do not know what will. The worse the ground, the more pronounced the difference. Maybe in certain ground conditions there would be little difference. I'm convinced ground condition differences alone cause most of the silly debates about depth on the Internet. But the number of targets I get in Prospecting Mode that get missed entirely in All Metal Mode is such that I rarely use anything else. But practical matters demand discrimination at times and so that is the trade-off we face in trashy hard to dig areas. Prospecting, beaches, sand lots, etc. I use Prospecting Mode. Turf hunting I use patterns or All Metal.

My humble opinion in the face of your superior number of helpful posts only!

Steve Herschbach
 
Hello Steve,

First congratulations on becoming a Gold Magnate! At some point you'll have to explain what all those assay figures equate to in oz. per ton, so all we tenderfoots will have a reference point.

I tend to agree with you on the good vs bad ground effects on the X70. And one of my "science experiments":lol: proved it to me. I do wonder what the X70 in Prospecting Mode would do in the VA areas of bad soil on relics. I also wonder if some users are put off by the term "Prospecting Mode", not realizing what it could provide in certain circumstances.

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?55,468567,469229#msg-469229

HH
BarnacleBill
 
Not that it would make a difference in any of my hunts but just curious as Ive read this "true all metal" several times in the past also.
I agree on the prospecting modes added depth, Ive seen it on the beach. I dont use it much though simply because I usually do shorter hunts and wont dig the numbers 38 and up which are the dimes and quarters, to better my chances of finding a lower conductive target that has a yellow color to it:cheers:
And of course the prospecting mode is a dig all mode except for the iron mask adjustment (which I hope gets put on the Sov one day).

HH
Neil
 
for your kind words and your perspective of the Prospecting mode. Your opinions are valued, highly respected and always welcome here!

For the most part, I think you and I are pretty much in agreement as to which mode to use when. For what it is worth, my "experience" is limited to the type of detecting available to me. I live in Iowa. We have no beaches. We have no gold. We have no military encampments. We have corn fields, cows and can slaw! Oh, and I don't do clad! I am a turf hunter. I hunt for old coins at old sites. (Old being relative to this part of the world) And being a turf hunter, the C/T mode is by default, my method of choice. However, your post and others have me intrigued! When the snow melts and the ground thaws, I will try the Prospecting mode at some of my "cleaner" sites. That way I will have a better idea as to how much "deeper" the Prospecting mode might be for my soil conditions. I don't know how much more sensitive the Prospecting mode is. But, for the record, I have submitted that question to some folks I know and hope to report that information back here on the forum. Thanks again. HH Randy
 
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