TTF and Depth - Be Careful!

[earthmansurfer]

I found this coin sized "ring" relic in conductive tones at 8" deep. I would have walked right past it in TTF as a combination (perhaps) of my iron mineralized ground and a few very small iron pieces in the ground caused the Fe number to drop below the TTF cutoff. Normally iron mineralization just causes a bounce in the Fe number. When it is consistently low like in the video, it is from iron blending.

I should have played longer with TTF, but where I hunt there is iron on every sweep so I go through it at a medium swing speed. What I did in TTF after finding it in conductive was much much more than I'd ever had done had I been hunting in TTF (though I would have been swinging slower). Anyway, I hope this is of help.

My point is just that TTF at depth can cause you to miss targets because of iron blending, sort of ironic... I say at depth, because I haven't observed this problem at less than 5" or so in my ground, though of course it is possible, which leads me to my next point,

As I said in the video, those VID's with Fe values in the 20's are often worth digging. True iron targets, from my experience, almost always are in the 30's (Fe). An exception I have heard of but not experienced, is when the CO values are near 46. (penny or clad dime possibly).

Enjoy,
Albert

ps - Watch it on Youtube at 480 by clicking "youtube" in the lower right corner of the video and then changing the settings at the bottom to 480, and then go full screen of course!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGFPTByvq0Q[/video]

 

[Bell-Two]

Another excellent video Albert, I feel I have learned a lot from viewing your series.

 

[Goes4ever]

why this may be very true, on the fields I hunt, you couldn't find a single coin in conductive because of the iron content, you would be nulled 100% of the time, so TTf is the ONLY option!

 

[Ray-Mo.]

That being said TTF will still get very good depth on silver and copper coins as it will hit my 9" silver test dime and ID correct.It is not masked by any iron either though.....

 

[Ringo853]

very good vid! Why is it going low tone at 17 on the FE scale?

 

[earthmansurfer]

As usual, thanks for the comments - nice to see different perspectives.

Goes - I don't disagree with you, it is my experience as well. In your fields though, I don't think depth is, or even could be, a point of concern. It seems that conductive sounds is superior when there is less trash and iron. And it seems that TTF is superior when the iron level is very very high. But when things are in the middle it often isn't so clear. I mostly hunt in conductive and then cross check in TTF, almost always TTF picks up the signal but I wouldn't say it's as good as conductive (but my ears aren't trained for TTF). I need to hunt in TTF and go in the other direction to see what I am missing as there is a lot of nulling going on. You know, it is really too bad that the E-Trac doesn't allow you to adjust the TTF break point.

Doing a video and making a comment is a bit problematic for me as 1: I often miss things while filming as my mind is also on the filming (e.g. - I missed those high tones that chirped in while in TTF) and 2: I am presenting a point but not trying to make an absolute statement as of course there are exceptions and it is so ground and condition dependent. Also, as in this video, I don't see the potential importance of the video until I get home and start editing. Then I say "Oh damn, I should have played with TTF more". It's a bit more time consuming to film, but really worth it and fun though.

RayMo - In my ground TTF goes just as deep, but as the depth increases the detector picks up more of the iron mineralization and that drops (usually via a bounce) the Fe number. So, for deep targets I hunt in conductive. Even with my iron mineralization, a silver dime at 7" will sing loud and clear in TTF as well.

Ringo - The cut-off point in TTF is right at 17 (according to the manual). So, I think 16 would have been a high tone and 17 drops it to a low. In my ground A LOT of coins hit (via bounces) at 17 to 24 due to the iron mineralization. If your ground isn't iron mineralized than I think there is less risk of losing those deep signals with TTF.

Thx again,
Albert

 

[dkubek]

Hey Albert, I think I'm gonna really start using/learning TTF. I'm in Louisville, KY and many of the places I hunt give me that constant null and it's really been bothering me. Everybody says my soil should be pretty neutral, but for some reason it is very mineralized or at least iron laden. What else should I be doing to begin my change over to TTF? How should the rest of my settings be changed? What city or state are you in?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[earthmansurfer]

Hey Dan, First, I'm in Germany (so I don't think you care much about my State, but if need be - N

 

[bradley]

hi dan im from brandenburg ky not far from louisville i use ttf alot actually most of the time. i use goesforever settings you can find them here and he does a very good job of explaining how to set your detector up for ttf http://goes4ever.mymdforum.com/minelab-etrac/

 

[gjedda63]

Great video !, I would like to add something; in TTF as I always hunt in, do not entirely rely on sounds. Have a sharp eye on the screen too because if a target locating on the left side of the screen is weak or at the edge of the coil it doesnt always create a sound but only a VID. I`ve found alot of targets when a VID on the left side appears with or without a weak signal. Go back and investigate,very often you will locate a steady signal with a little bit wiggling.I`ve found small hammered coins and small relics in this way.

 

[ronfin]

Question, why would TTC or TTF not be the same depth range? You're only changing what you're listening to sound-wise, and it doesn't affect the sensitivity.

 

[earthmansurfer]

ronfin - I think they are the same but as coins get deeper we often see those Fe numbers drop (at least in iron mineralized soils) and the Fe numbers often drop due to iron blending the signal. So, you may get a low tone on a good target in TTF but not in Conductive (though the Fe number will be lower). It really is too bad that you can't move that 17 breakpoint in TTF. Perhaps this is a good reason for those of us in iron mineralized ground to try 4TF! I wonder if that opens up the 17-24 (or so) range with another tone??? Now you got me thinking...

Maybe there is more to it than that as well, anyone???

 

[Ken in Georgia]

Albert I would have love to see what would have happen in 4 tone Conductive too. Great Video as always !!!

 

[Nuke em]

I have not read all the posts on this thread so if i say some thing that has already been said oh well, but anyway the iron mask that is on the screen is way too much and i have worked out a screen disc that stops the nulling, i was on the beach yesterday and found a pound coin right next to a nail that would have nulled the ET with an older programme. For me the TTF works perfectly and you may have to go slow but if you come accross a high tone then provided you have experience of the targets that appear in the site you are on you will be able to go by numbers .
The beach i go on is riddled with nails but since i used my new screen idea and the TTF i have had no problem.
I dont know the numbers or the make up of the coins that you are searching but its the screen i saw on the video above that worries me. You have to look at it like this , the screen is one big notch system and with so much notched out it will null a lot if in iron sites with non ferrous there aswell.
This is my first beach programme screen i used for the tops on the English beaches , works brilliantly along with my settings unless i had irony and bonfire markings then it would nul.

This is the new screen i am using on the irony parts now with TTF and no nulling. Finding coins at 9 inches or more. It is a experimental screen and not fully sorted.

And now a new screen that will be used next time round that i use the ET on the beach , DONT EVEN TRY TO LAUGH

I have been trying to find ways of stopping nulling and having some disc aswell and i think this way may be the answer , we will see.

 

[E-TREC-Virginia]

Wow, those are impressive patterns. Any way of putting the disc'ed out CO/FE numbers in writting for the 2nd and 3rd pattern?

 

[earthmansurfer]

Wow is right! I could never have thought of such a screen, without drugs anyway.

In TTF I run the quick mask screen wide open and don't understand how you could get nulling? (You said "iron mask", which is quick mask on the E-Trac.)

I think by "iron mask", maybe you were talking about the discrimination pattern I was using, which was basically a minimally discriminated pattern (around 27 and lower was open on the Fe)??? So, you are saying, that by opening lots of areas within the discrim'd pattern, that the nulling stops? And is there any rhyme or reason to the way you took out some of the pattern? I ask because I'd like to duplicate it but have no idea how! eheheh

Thanks,
Albert

 

[Nuke em]

The last pattern is experimental and will be tested in my next week off from the 15th, the second pattern works but as you are in the US and i have no idea what the coins are made of except the cent is non ferrous as is the dime i dont know if the pattern will work but this should and the last one should too.
I thought about this pattern as when you have a normal machine like the Sovereign you have disc switch and a notch switch and the notch discs a area higher up the disc setting so why not instead of blacking out the whole bottom of the ET screen just do a sort of pattern like the 3rd screen then it should stop it nulling on iron when a non ferrous target is there. I have used the second pattern and found 2

 

[Nuke em]

Give ma bit of time and i will sort the pattern numbers out for you.

 

[Nuke em]

Pattern one is on another UK forum ( Nuke em's shingle beach programme for the E.Trac)

These are the numbers to black out for pattern 2

Line 1 = 1 to 27

Line 2 = 1 to 27

Line 3 = 1 , 12 to 19

Line 4 = 1 , 14 to 17

Line 5 = 49 and 50

Line 6 = 49 and 50

Line 7 = 49 and 50

Line 8 = 48 to 50

Line 9 = 42 to 50

Line 10 = 42 to 50

Line 11= 49 and 50

Line 12 = 49 and 50

Line 13 to 15 = 49 to 50

Line 16 = 9 , 14 , 16 , 18 , 21 , 24 to 27 , 41 to 50

Line 17 = same as line 16

Line 18 = 9 , 14 , 16 , 18 , 21 , 24 to 50

Line 19 = 1 to 27 , 37 to 40 , 49 and 50

Line 20 = 1 to 27 , 37 to 40 , 49 and 50

Line 21 = 1 , 37 to 40 , 49 and 50

Line 22 = all black

Line 23 = all black

Line 24 = 1 to 3 , 15 and 16 , 27 and 28 , 37 to 39 , 49 and 50

Line 25 = 1 and 2 , 15 to 28 , 37 to 39 , 49 and 50

Line 26 = 1 and 2 , 15 and 16 , 27 and 28 , 37 to 39 , 49 and 50

Line 27 = same as line 26

Line 28 = all black

Line 29 = 1 to 8 , 15 , 27 and 28 , 37 to 39 , 49 and 50

Line 30 = 1 to 9 , 15 , 27 and 28 , 37 to 39 , 49 and 50

Line 31 = 1 to 10 , 15 , 27 and 28 , 37 to 39 , 49 and 50

Line 32 = all black

Line 33 = 1 to 15 , 27 and 28 , 46 to 50

Line 34 = same as line 33

Line 35 = 1 to 28 , 46 to 50

This is the thrird pattern ,

Line 1 = 1 to 33

Line 2 = 1 to 28

Line 3 = 1 , 8 to 23 ,

Line 4 = 1 , 14 to 20 , 50

Line 5 to line 7 = 49 to 50

Line 8 = 48 to 50

Line 9 = 47 to 50

Line 10 = 46 to 50

Line 11 to line 15 = 49 and 50

Line 16 = 9 to 32 , 44 to 47 , 49 and 50

Line 17 = 9 , 14 , 16 , 18 , 21 , 24 , 28 , 32 , 44 , 47 , 49 and 50

Line 18 = 9 , 14 , 16 , 18 to 50

Line 19 = 1 to 29 , 32 , 35 , 38 , 41 , 44 , 47 , 29 and 40

Line 20 = all black

Line 21 = 1 , 6 , 9 , 12 , 14 , 16 , 18 , 21 , 24 and 25 , 28 and 29 , 32 , 35 , 38 , 41 , 44 , 47 , 49 and 50

Line 22 and 23 = all black

Line 24 = 1 and 2 , 6 , 9 , 12 , 15 and 16 , 20 and 21 , 24 and 25 , 28 and 29 , 32 , 35 , 38 , 41 ,44 , 47 , 49 and 50

Line 25 = all black

Line 26 and 27 = same as line 24

Line 28 = all black

Lines 29 to line 31 = 1 to 9 , 12 , 15 and 16 , 20 and 21 , 24 and 25 , 28 and 29 , 32 , 35 , 38 , 41 , 44 , 47 , 49 and 50

Line 32 = all black

Line 33 = 1 to 16 , 20 and 21 , 24 and 25 , 28 and 29 , 32 , 35 , 38 , 41 , 44 , 47 to 50

Line 34 = 1 to 16 , 27 and 28 , 46 to 50

Line 35 = 1 to 27 , 45 to 50

Use Two Tone Ferrous with these screens , noise cancel 1 to 3 , sensitivity 27 + at Auto +3 , most other settings are near maxed , gain at 25 to 27

Hope it works out and at the least you will have learned how to edit LOL if it doesn't .

 

[earthmansurfer]

Thanks for taking the time to write your pattern out.

So, how did you come to those numbers on the first pattern above, the rhyme and reason please???

EMS