Try this test..My Etrac fails pretty bad

[Bugalooob]

I set up a normal park hunt scenario in my living room, I put a little piece of tinfoil on top of a 3 inch glass then I put a dime 8 inches away on the floor..My etrac nulled out the dime on the sweep and at 1 foot(dime distance from the glass) it was an iffy dig signal..I don't know about you guys but I consider this a serious problem with my so called high tech modern machine...I'm probably missing so many deep older coins because of this...Can you test the vison and see how it performs on this test?

 

[CROCK of COINS]

>>I set up a normal park hunt scenario in my living room<<

No can do in this home= wire in slab/floor. ;-(

Jerry

 

[ronaldj2]

Was the area of your living clean and clear of any other hidden metal objects ? ie: screws, nails, wiring, heating ducts, water pipes,etc. An outdoors test is probably your best bet. I'm sure you must be aware as this is your living room. As for me my living room would be most of the above !!

 

[Sonny(IN)]

I set up a normal park hunt scenario in my living room, I put a little piece of tinfoil on top of a 3 inch glass then I put a dime 8 inches away on the floor..My etrac nulled out the dime on the sweep and at 1 foot(dime distance from the glass) it was an iffy dig signal..I don't know about you guys but I consider this a serious problem with my so called high tech modern machine...I'm probably missing so many deep older coins because of this...Can you test the vison and see how it performs on this test?

This kind of test is not accurate unless you have DIRT FLOORS?

 

[Bugalooob]

I actually placed the objects on 8 inch thick pillows and I tested the area in all metal before testing...I also went outside and performed the test with actual burying

 

[go-rebels]

When you do the test outdoors, try to separate the targets until you get a decent reading that you would dig. Then measure the distance and tell us what you find.

Then we need someone with a Vision to duplicate your test.

I'll try to repeat your test tomorrow using my F75 and a 4" buried silver dime.

 

[Ray-Mo.]

The first problem is you should not be getting a null on a small piece of foil if you are looking for old deep targets in trashy parks.That is why we have both Tonal and Number ID.If you disc out every bad target you can you will not be able to get many good targets because of all the masking.Have you ever used a machine with ID abilities before?It would seem that you have not,Ray.

 

[Bugalooob]

I seem to be getting assaulted on the Etrac forum for my post and they seem to be following me..Heres the test with the measurements, I just performed again with the Etrac (8 inch coil) outside...I placed one modern square soda can tab on top of the dirt, I buried one clad dime exactly 9 inches away from the tab 3 inches deep..I'm on fast recovery mode..I sweep in the normal slow and easy minelab fassion across the tab then the dime in all metal mode and just hear the tone and see the id for the tab only, if I go to discriminate the tab out I just get a null doing this test...I have to seperate the target to 10 inches before I get any kind of a somewhat decent signal from the Etrac...My point is that the majority of junk in parks is lighter then coins so the crap will be above them, all the nice recovery test videos show items on a level surface ..This is not the case in a park setting...I'm just trying to find a detector that doesn't do this, thats why I'm asking the vision guys to test it for me..If this detector doesn't exist then so be it...I'm not bashing minelabs or any other brand out of spite, I expect something for 1500 bucks and not some bell and whistled 20 year old machine

 

[Brett]

I seem to be getting assaulted on the Etrac forum for my post and they seem to be following me..Heres the test with the measurements, I just performed again with the Etrac (8 inch coil) outside...I placed one modern square soda can tab on top of the dirt, I buried one clad dime exactly 9 inches away from the tab 3 inches deep..I'm on fast recovery mode..I sweep in the normal slow and easy minelab fassion across the tab then the dime in all metal mode and just hear the tone and see the id for the tab only, if I go to discriminate the tab out I just get a null doing this test...I have to seperate the target to 10 inches before I get any kind of a somewhat decent signal from the Etrac...My point is that the majority of junk in parks is lighter then coins so the crap will be above them, all the nice recovery test videos show items on a level surface ..This is not the case in a park setting...I'm just trying to find a detector that doesn't do this, thats why I'm asking the vision guys to test it for me..If this detector doesn't exist then so be it...I'm not bashing minelabs or any other brand out of spite, I expect something for 1500 bucks and not some bell and whistled 20 year old machine

B, do you have Trash Density set to HIGH? If so, something is definitely screwed up with your machine. Mine definitely does not have the same problems yours does. If it wasn't raining cats and dogs I would definitely be all over this testing... I've sneaked indians out from within a loop a wire, and mercs right next to rusty bottle caps and nails. I realize you have surface trash, and a deeper target... but I can't believe it would be that bad 9" away on an 8" coil. I really wish I could do this test right now.

 

[go-rebels]

I believe what bugaloob is saying. It is a very difficult test only made more difficult by bringing the targets closer together.

My F75 has one of the fastest recovery speeds out there, but with the standard coil (9" x 11" elliptical DD), I cannot see a buried silver dime 6" from a buried rusty nail. I have to swing my F75 at half speed to pick up the dime. And the F75 does not perform well using the Minelab 'wiggle' technique.

When I retrofit my F75 with the elliptical concentric 4x6 coil or the 5" DD, then I can find the dime as fast as I can swing the coil. I'm not speaking from FACTS, but I suspect that the Etrac and Vision would greatly benefit from a smaller coil when hunting trash infested sites.

Bottom line: the size of the coil has as much influence on the 'recovery speed' as the design of the elecronics.

 

[tvr]

I don't believe you start recovering in the recovery speed equation until coil field is past target ... sweeping 8 inch coil over targets with 9 inch horizontal separation is a much different equation than what you get with a 4 inch wide coil with 9 inch horizontal separation. Test is magnified by masking target being much closer to surface than desired one.
Yes it looks like a tough test with standard coil sizes.

I want to set up this test with my Tejon and see how far I have to move the dime horizontally to see the dime when I discriminate out the tab.
tvr

 

[go-rebels]

Good test tvr. I'd be interested to see what you measure.

 

[B.T]

I test drove my car in my garage

 

[go-rebels]

I test drove my car in my garage

I remember you! I sold you that car and you didn't want to test drive it.

 

[rbholt80]

I did your test out in my yard. I put a dime 3 inches down in the soil and covered it with dirt. Then i placed a small piece of paper over it so i would know its location. Then a square tab 9 inches away on the surface. My e-trac hit both items fine with a small sweep or long sweep or even a sweep that didn't move off the targets. I then placed the tab at 6 inches and still was able to hit both just fine. Now at 3 inches the dime went silent most of the time. Then i changed from normal audio to long and the dime came back out but the tab and dime tones ran together but it still told me a dime was there with a tab. So then i tried 2 inches with long and still got the dime to sound off. I didn't test any closer than that cause i had to leave for some doc appointment for the wife. I did take a small video of first test and i will try to get it up here later.

The whites can probably do the test just as good so it makes me think your minelab may have a problem.

 

[tvr]

rbholt80,
Were you discriminating or notching out the tab when you did your test? Don't know if the E (or the V) does this with circuit filtering, digital signal processing at some stage or as part of only what is chosen to display.

Maybe I mis-read the test or it's intent. I thought some of what was being tried was to see what the ID indication is and if the tab or foil is discriminated or notched out so you don't hear it, how well do you pick up the dime after sweeping over the discriminated or notched out target.

In any case, I am going to set up the test with the Tejon when I can. It is pouring today. Hope to set it up in the next day or two.
Cheers,
tvr

 

[rbholt80]

I tried it with a pattern that knocked out tabs and one that was open. later i went out and did the test over just to verify a few things to my self.
The results were the same but what i found is that the coin would only hit with sense turned up around 22/23 or higher. The coin being 3 inches down in the dirt an the tab was 2/3 inches away on the surface, the leading edge of the coil would hit the coin but not the center of the coil unless i moved the tab 6/7 inches from dime.

The e-trac will find targets close to trash and even partially under the field of trash (I didnt try directly under the trash) but only with a sense of around 22 or higher and with tones set to the long or smooth setting. Doesn't matter if the trash is disced out or not.

i used the stock pro coil so other coils may react differently.


Ill set this test up again and really document everything well and record it again but all i have to record with is my phone so it wont be top quality.

 

[tvr]

Thanks for the update. Great information.

Hope to see some more on the Vision and if it acts differently in this scenario with the different individual frequencies / all three / salt mode.

Looking forward to the rain stopping!
tvr

 

[Carolina Phil]

can result in good information, but only when done by the knowledgeable, experienced and unbiased, using similar settings, similar size coils, etc.

 

[go-rebels]

rbholt80,
Maybe I mis-read the test or it's intent. I thought some of what was being tried was to see what the ID indication is and if the tab or foil is discriminated or notched out so you don't hear it, how well do you pick up the dime after sweeping over the discriminated or notched out target.
tvr

Yes, this is exactly the test. You must entirely DISC or Notch out the scrap target, then see how fast the detector can recover to find the good target. It is a funciton of the electronics, software and coil geometry.

The measurement value is how far you can separate the targets. The test is made more difficult when the scrap signal is much stronger than the (good) target signal. This is simulated by putting the trash target closer to the coil using a glass, or better yet, by burying the good target in the ground.

'Watering' a freshly buried silver coin does a very good job of simulating a long buried silver target as it improves the condition of the disturbed soil. In fact, without watering, the detector has a harder time picking up the deeper target. Try it in your backyard sometime.