"Trust what the detector is telling you"

[TrpnBils]

What does that saying mean to you when it comes to the 3030? I see it mentioned all the time (for all detectors) but nobody ever really goes into detail. To me, still very much learning the 3030, I find myself looking at target traces and listening to audio in "ugly" ground and thinking "ok I know what that combination of audio/visual means" and then it ends up being something different in a lot of cases, especially when it comes to iron signals around 12-39 in areas where there are actual conductive targets around the same numbers.

There's an active thread right now on this forum about somebody having an "a ha" moment with their detector and another user replied that learning to trust what his detector was telling him was the biggest "a ha" moment he's had....so what does that saying mean to you with this detector?

 

[sprchng]

How would you interpret a 12-39 to be an iron signal?

 

[TrpnBils]

In ferrous-coin mode I get constant chatter at 12-39 in iron-heavy sites where there are no conductive targets. It's falsing from iron, but it still gives me audio and visual garbage to sort through.

 

[indy durtdigger]

In ferrous-coin mode I get constant chatter at 12-39 in iron-heavy sites where there are no conductive targets. It's falsing from iron, but it still gives me audio and visual garbage to sort through.

Same here. Ferrous coin with a 12-39 to 12-40 and a perfect target trace is almost always a bent nail or similarly shaped small piece of iron. Still gotta dig them, both of the pre 1900 Indian head pennies I dug this year came in at 12-39.

 

[tiftaaft]

In ferrous-coin mode I get constant chatter at 12-39 in iron-heavy sites where there are no conductive targets. It's falsing from iron, but it still gives me audio and visual garbage to sort through.

Same here. Ferrous coin with a 12-39 to 12-40 and a perfect target trace is almost always a bent nail or similarly shaped small piece of iron. Still gotta dig them, both of the pre 1900 Indian head pennies I dug this year came in at 12-39.

I have experienced the same thing with rusty iron, especially nails. I am also fairly new to the CTX but I trust the more I grow familiar with the tones and id's when digging these ferrous targets, the better I will get at using my brain to discriminate these targets. I have noticed in some cases, as an example and outlined in several of the forum posts, that sometimes a rusty nail ringing in the 12-(low 40's) will

a) disappear when I swing at a 90 degree angle and/or
b) will pinpoint in a different spot than the wiggle back method might indicate.

I say sometimes, because I haven't honed that skill yet, but on a few digs with these responses, I guessed correctly that it was a nail. I have also found that increasing the sensitivity also increases the likelihood of those bent nails, and I have my ideas on why that is (more field testing needed).

To me, "trusting what the detector is telling me" means... understanding what each pattern and setting does, and using that knowledge in coordination with the readings it is giving (such as tone, id and depth) to perform a mental calculation and decision tree flow chart to decide if I should dig or pass. Believe me, I'm not saying I am any good at any of that... but I am getting better. The only way to get better is to put in the hours with the coil on the ground. The one thing I learned the hard way, and was something that several of the experienced CTX users suggest in the forum posts... is stick with one setting first (usually the stock coins setting is suggested) and put a lot of hours on that setting before thinking of switching things around. I spent the first month flipping between as many settings as I could find, looking for the holy grail of patterns/settings.. as many of us do out of the gate. And I found targets... but I think only the easy targets. When I landed on a pattern, and stuck with it... I started to better understand not what the detector was telling me, but what THAT PATTERN/SETTING was telling me. With a detector like the CTX... I have found that it is like a swiss army knife of detectors, It can be set up to run a hundred (or more) different ways (just trying to decide between 2 tone, 4 tone, 50 tone or combined mode - and whether to use High Trash, Low Trash, Ferrous/Coin or Ground/Coin is just the start of all the variables that have sweeping differences in what "the detector is telling me" - and then there are the patterns...).

As far as "A-HA" moments, learning about how the auto vs. manual sensitivity works within the CTX (and Etrac) was probably the biggest one for me. I am sure there will be others, and I can't wait to learn them.

So, I guess to me, I trust that the detector is giving me all I need to know to make better decisions on whether to dig the target or not... I am just still learning how to decipher all that information.

I don't think I exactly answered your question, but I think it is a great question and I look forward to hearing other's answers. ~Tim

 

[IDXMonster]

You just have a nasty site. If in disc and you get that "maybe" signal and you switch to open screen and the signal is now a lot better...junker.

 

[TrpnBils]

You just have a nasty site. If in disc and you get that "maybe" signal and you switch to open screen and the signal is now a lot better...junker.

Well, you're talking about that one site we've been discussing in particular... just in general though what are your thoughts? Right now I hunt all open anyway and actually kind of find it annoying to hunt with disc because I feel like I'm missing information. I'm not complaining though, because it's nice to finally be ok with hunting that way!

 

[Champ Ferguson]

I believe you are referring to me when you cite the other thread and my ah-Ha moment. Tim summed up my definition well so I wont repeat it:

...To me, "trusting what the detector is telling me" means... understanding what each pattern and setting does, and using that knowledge in coordination with the readings it is giving (such as tone, id and depth) to perform a mental calculation and decision tree flow chart to decide if I should dig or pass. .... ~Tim

I first learned this after about 50 hours on the Safari. I was looking too hard and not letting the machine do the searching for the treasure. I kept trying to make something out of every odd signal so I 'didn't miss anything'. After a particularly intriguing piece of can slaw was quickly followed by a quarter, it just hit me: 'even tho they were both good(and VERY similar) signals, there WAS a difference. the machine saw it and was trying to convey that difference to me'. Now I know that sounds obvious, but at that point I started really listening to/studying the quality of each signal for the nuances that I was previously glossing over. There really is a lot more information than 'its a 12-39' in the audio. Target Trace is wonderful and absolutely the best thing about the CTX for me, but it isn't a do-all. Audio is still King.

But yeah, very rusty stuff, especially bent nails can sound awfully good as others pointed out.

 

[TrpnBils]

I believe you are referring to me when you cite the other thread and my ah-Ha moment. Tim summed up my definition well so I wont repeat it:

...To me, "trusting what the detector is telling me" means... understanding what each pattern and setting does, and using that knowledge in coordination with the readings it is giving (such as tone, id and depth) to perform a mental calculation and decision tree flow chart to decide if I should dig or pass. .... ~Tim

I first learned this after about 50 hours on the Safari. I was looking too hard and not letting the machine do the searching for the treasure. I kept trying to make something out of every odd signal so I 'didn't miss anything'. After a particularly intriguing piece of can slaw was quickly followed by a quarter, it just hit me: 'even tho they were both good(and VERY similar) signals, there WAS a difference. the machine saw it and was trying to convey that difference to me'. Now I know that sounds obvious, but at that point I started really listening to/studying the quality of each signal for the nuances that I was previously glossing over. There really is a lot more information than 'its a 12-39' in the audio. Target Trace is wonderful and absolutely the best thing about the CTX for me, but it isn't a do-all. Audio is still King.

But yeah, very rusty stuff, especially bent nails can sound awfully good as others pointed out.

Yes, it was your post in that other thread there that made me think of this, and what you've pointed out below is exactly what I'm slowly, slowly trying to break away from: Not analyzing the hell out of every little nuanced signal (in my case because I probably saw a youtube video or somebody on here explaining how that little nuanced sound can SOMETIMES be something of value) to the point where I convince myself that it's something. I'm getting better at not doing that, but it's tough. The quality of the tone is what I'm trying to focus more on now, and it's working to an extent. I'm not digging as much iron as I used to with this machine, which is good because when I still had my Etrac I was barely digging any at all with that so it was like a step backwards when I first got this CTX.

 

[diamondcutter]

Iv'e read that using some disc is good, the ctx has the exceptional ability to boost the response of accepted signals and the suppression of unwanted signals.That's whats great about the ctx it is designed to take full advantage of discriminating features without compromising your ability to mask targets due to the delay between the null of the threshold and a positive signal response, Open screens will produce same signal strength for both trash and coin. So if you want sharper contrast for good targets, like being able to hear faint signals i would suggest using some disc. with your threshold at barely audible. This was quoted from Dr Tones out of Andy's book, good advice for coin hunters.

 

[TrpnBils]

Iv'e read that using some disc is good, the ctx has the exceptional ability to boost the response of accepted signals and the suppression of unwanted signals.That's whats great about the ctx it is designed to take full advantage of discriminating features without compromising your ability to mask targets due to the delay between the null of the threshold and a positive signal response, Open screens will produce same signal strength for both trash and coin. So if you want sharper contrast for good targets, like being able to hear faint signals i would suggest using some disc. with your threshold at barely audible. This was quoted from Dr Tones out of Andy's book, good advice for coin hunters.

That's interesting - what page is that on in Andy's book? I don't remember reading that before, but I'm at work now so I'll have to wait til I get home to re-read that part and digest it a bit. That's an interesting observation though if it's accurate (which I have no reason to believe that it's not, I think I'm just ingrained with the idea that disc causes more delays and slower response time with all detectors).

 

[Champ Ferguson]

"...it was like a step backwards when I first got this CTX..."
Yep. I can sure believe that. But I think that happens with any new detector you switch to.


Good post, diamondhunter.


Remember too to tailor your machine settings to your soil. In many places I hunt, there is a dense clay layer at 6" or less that effectively stops the sinking of metal objects. Extra depth on those sites is worthless to me. About the only place I don't use some discrimination is at the beach, and even then when it gets trashy in the dry (usually near the waste cans), I will use a bit there so I can hunt them and retain my sanity.

 

[IDXMonster]

Like has been said above...when I got my Explorer I did exactly what you're doing Jeff...ANYTHING that made ANY noise had to be investigated. THE defining moment with my CTX was in Goodland park near MadisonWI. I was hunting with a guy I go with frequently and it found a 9" Merc DIRECTLY under a rusted 2" long shank of a bolt. The signal was clear as could be,good high tone in Auto +3 with stock coil,High Trash factory Silver mode. I found a VERY similar one with my Explorer before that(previous year). If you're running Auto you can trust it more,in Manual it's a bit more jittery but still very good if your Gain isn't set too high in iron. I've found Ferrous Coin to be quite the liar in my areas,so I stay in High Trash a lot....