OK so I have been using a DeLeon......really like it. Mainly on dry sand and parks with light to medium mineral. However every now and then I hit a rough patch...probably a bit heavier bad ground. Here's my question: Should I get a new RDS 11X8" DD coil....to help remedy the situation......another weapon in my bag . Follow up question: has anyone used this coil on a DeLeon?? Will it work?? What can I expect... Opinions and advice greatly appreciated.......as I will be using this info in my buying decision. Thanks for all who reply.
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Tough Question........need help!!
- Thread starter Ivan
- Start date
DD coils will always deal with bottle caps less effective than concentrics including the new RSD coils. I have and use the new RSD 8x11 coil on my Black Tejon and my Black Vaquero, it's an excellent fast responding DD coil, it's light balanced and very effective and slices through trash very well for it's size. The Tesoro RSD coil like most DD coils handle the bad ground better and is stable while maintaining good depth.
In summery,
The RSD coils have a fast response on targets cut through trash well work more stable in bad ground and will perform very well (by design) over all be it a Tesoro 4 pin coil or a 5 pin Tesoro coil.
The RSD coil pin points perfect off the tip with the wiggle method.
( To bad the DeLeon has a fixed GB a manuel GB would be a big help as well).
Happy Hunting,
Bill G
In summery,
The RSD coils have a fast response on targets cut through trash well work more stable in bad ground and will perform very well (by design) over all be it a Tesoro 4 pin coil or a 5 pin Tesoro coil.
The RSD coil pin points perfect off the tip with the wiggle method.
( To bad the DeLeon has a fixed GB a manuel GB would be a big help as well).
Happy Hunting,
Bill G
bibelot
Member
I don't believe it will help with the patches of ground that your mentioning as I still get them with the RSD coil but I believe that the RSD coil is the best coil for the Deleon.I've tried a 4" concentric, 8' concentric, 7" wide scan, 9x8 concentric and the 11x8 RSD.I leave the RSD on it from the choices I have available.It separates targets like no other coil that I've used. Ivan
Thanks bibelot, although I have plenty of experience using DD coils, I have never used one on the DeLeon....as you would know, the DeLeon is exceptional with a concentric coil in the information it gives on the screen: I was just wondering if there was a difference between the information the DeLeon gives with a concentric coil to that which it gives with a dd coil with respect to iron (eg steel bottle caps). You have answered that....thank you.
No, forget the 8X11 RDS DD coil.
You didn't mention the types of sites you usually hunt, or the trash content and type of trash you often deal with, but you did mention two very important things:
1.. You are using a Tesoro DeLeón
2.. You said you "Mainly on dry sand and parks with light to medium mineral. However every now and then I hit a rough patch...probably a bit heavier bad ground."
This sort of comment about going from "medium" or "moderate" mineralization into a more heavier iron mineralized area calls for the use of a Double-D search coil. Well, long ago there was more happening to make a DD coil a slightly better choice for 'bad ground,' but times have changed. I have been using DD search coils since 1971 on various makes and models, but have mostly enjoyed Concentric coils on the detectors I favored because they had their own advantages.
Usually, Concentric search coils will do a better job when compared with a Double-D search coil of comparable size when it comes to:
• Depth of detection
• Producing a more accurate and tighter visual Target ID read-out
• Handling iron trash rejection, to include many challenging objects such as bottle caps, washers, and rusty tin
• Pinpointing a located target more precisely
I live in Eastern Oregon and do most of my Relic Hunting in Oregon, Idaho, Utah and Nevada with occasional trips to Arizona, Wyoming and California. I'd say a good 85% of the places I hunt are anything but mild, mellow or moderate as they have very challenging, high iron content ground mineralization. Typical sites are Gold Mining camps or towns, stage stops, railroad sidings, depot and town sites, homesteads, old resort or recreation sites, and other places with a lot of trash, especially iron junk, and located in above-average mineralization.
Not only have Concentric search coils served me well in most applications, I have also enjoyed some "electronic prospecting," as we used to call Gold Nugget Hunting, and the bulk of the gold nuggets I have found were when I was using a Concentric search coil, not a DD design. I am not saying that a Double-D coil isn't good, but a lot depends upon the detector it is affixed to and how the detector & coil perform in challenging environments.
I have a pair of 6" Concentric search coils for my Tesoro's and that is all they use. All of my Makro detectors, the Racer 2 and Gold Racers, have 5½" or 5½X10 Double-D coils mounted. My Nokta FORS CoRe has an 'OOR' coil attached, my main-use Relic has the 5½" DD mounted, and my R-P [size=small](Revised Prototype prior to the Relic introduction )[/size] Relic keeps the 5½X10 Concentric at the end-of-the-rod and ready to handle low-to-moderate trash, especially if the primary annoyance are iron nails.
So I use both DD and Concentric, but I can assure you that my Makro and Nokta detectors, with either the Concentric or DD coils mounted, will handle dense iron nail contaminated sites just about as well as my Tesoro models with Concentric coils. I can also assure you that I have handled, and watched others handle, several Tesoro models with both Tesoro labeled DD coils and some after-market DD coils and they failed to handle the dense nail challenge as well as all my detectors, and more importantly, ALL of the Tesoro models that failed to do even fair on a Nail Board Test challenge with DD coils [size=small](including Tesoro's 8X11 RDS coil)[/size] worked perfectly with a 6" Concentric, 7" Concentric, 8" Concentric and 8X9 Concentric coil.
The Tesoro models compared with both the DD and Concentric coils were basically close to failure with DD's compared with all the Concentric sizes. From ample field time, I have seen the same results afield with Tesoro's using both coil types, and that's another reason I suggest you pass on the 8X11 RDS coil.
Then there is another more important reason, and that is you are intending to change search coils on a model that relies on the internally-set Ground Balance, and I found many Tesoro models that are set to be workable with the supplied 'standard' search coil, but mounting some or several optional search coils results in a model that is frequently way off, being either too negative a GB which can result in falsing and poor performance, or too positive, even to the point of not responding to some larger and higher-conductive targets such as silver dollars, half-dollars and even at times not hitting on a US quarter!
If you know of a dealer or other Tesoro user who has the RDS coil, set up some side-by-side evaluation scenarios with both the RDS DD coil and a good Tesoro Concentric coil. Yes, just my opinions, but that are based on actual in-the-field hunting and many comparisons with different Concentric coil, even to include the 8X9 Concentric,.
Monte
You didn't mention the types of sites you usually hunt, or the trash content and type of trash you often deal with, but you did mention two very important things:
1.. You are using a Tesoro DeLeón
2.. You said you "Mainly on dry sand and parks with light to medium mineral. However every now and then I hit a rough patch...probably a bit heavier bad ground."
This sort of comment about going from "medium" or "moderate" mineralization into a more heavier iron mineralized area calls for the use of a Double-D search coil. Well, long ago there was more happening to make a DD coil a slightly better choice for 'bad ground,' but times have changed. I have been using DD search coils since 1971 on various makes and models, but have mostly enjoyed Concentric coils on the detectors I favored because they had their own advantages.
Usually, Concentric search coils will do a better job when compared with a Double-D search coil of comparable size when it comes to:
• Depth of detection
• Producing a more accurate and tighter visual Target ID read-out
• Handling iron trash rejection, to include many challenging objects such as bottle caps, washers, and rusty tin
• Pinpointing a located target more precisely
I live in Eastern Oregon and do most of my Relic Hunting in Oregon, Idaho, Utah and Nevada with occasional trips to Arizona, Wyoming and California. I'd say a good 85% of the places I hunt are anything but mild, mellow or moderate as they have very challenging, high iron content ground mineralization. Typical sites are Gold Mining camps or towns, stage stops, railroad sidings, depot and town sites, homesteads, old resort or recreation sites, and other places with a lot of trash, especially iron junk, and located in above-average mineralization.
Not only have Concentric search coils served me well in most applications, I have also enjoyed some "electronic prospecting," as we used to call Gold Nugget Hunting, and the bulk of the gold nuggets I have found were when I was using a Concentric search coil, not a DD design. I am not saying that a Double-D coil isn't good, but a lot depends upon the detector it is affixed to and how the detector & coil perform in challenging environments.
I have a pair of 6" Concentric search coils for my Tesoro's and that is all they use. All of my Makro detectors, the Racer 2 and Gold Racers, have 5½" or 5½X10 Double-D coils mounted. My Nokta FORS CoRe has an 'OOR' coil attached, my main-use Relic has the 5½" DD mounted, and my R-P [size=small](Revised Prototype prior to the Relic introduction )[/size] Relic keeps the 5½X10 Concentric at the end-of-the-rod and ready to handle low-to-moderate trash, especially if the primary annoyance are iron nails.
So I use both DD and Concentric, but I can assure you that my Makro and Nokta detectors, with either the Concentric or DD coils mounted, will handle dense iron nail contaminated sites just about as well as my Tesoro models with Concentric coils. I can also assure you that I have handled, and watched others handle, several Tesoro models with both Tesoro labeled DD coils and some after-market DD coils and they failed to handle the dense nail challenge as well as all my detectors, and more importantly, ALL of the Tesoro models that failed to do even fair on a Nail Board Test challenge with DD coils [size=small](including Tesoro's 8X11 RDS coil)[/size] worked perfectly with a 6" Concentric, 7" Concentric, 8" Concentric and 8X9 Concentric coil.
The Tesoro models compared with both the DD and Concentric coils were basically close to failure with DD's compared with all the Concentric sizes. From ample field time, I have seen the same results afield with Tesoro's using both coil types, and that's another reason I suggest you pass on the 8X11 RDS coil.
Then there is another more important reason, and that is you are intending to change search coils on a model that relies on the internally-set Ground Balance, and I found many Tesoro models that are set to be workable with the supplied 'standard' search coil, but mounting some or several optional search coils results in a model that is frequently way off, being either too negative a GB which can result in falsing and poor performance, or too positive, even to the point of not responding to some larger and higher-conductive targets such as silver dollars, half-dollars and even at times not hitting on a US quarter!
If you know of a dealer or other Tesoro user who has the RDS coil, set up some side-by-side evaluation scenarios with both the RDS DD coil and a good Tesoro Concentric coil. Yes, just my opinions, but that are based on actual in-the-field hunting and many comparisons with different Concentric coil, even to include the 8X9 Concentric,.
Monte
Nice post Monte, and thanks...(from me). For some reason that I can't really explain (just my feeling for the machine and experiences with it) I have steered clear of fiddling too much with my DeLeon...I have tried the 6" concentric a couple of times (usually run it with the 9 x 8 concentric), but did not notice a great deal of advantage in using the 6" (in the place I hunt with the DeLeon). I've found my DeLeon produces a very similar performance to a Silver Sabre II which I once had (actually traded it on the DeLeon), except the DeLeon provides a lot of information on the screen, as well as having a distinctive audio signal. HH Pete.
Thank You Monte......I'll take your advice. Us being "old timers" remember when D Tex sold detectors......all their ads said concentric coils were the best ovrall performing and deepest!! I don't think they even made a DD coil....but boy did they some excellent detectors. I should have kept mine. Anyways....thanks for you 5cents worth .......for me it's 5 dollars worth!! LOL LOL
bibelot
Member
Great post ! change coils to go back over where I've found my silver with the RSD coil.I'm on my 5th set of batteries with the RSD coil.That is hardly enough experience,although the Deleon/RSD has been astounding in the items I've retrieved with it, within that short time frame. I came to post that I seen a RSD 5 pin coil on the big auction, buy it now for $89.I would have bought it if I didn't already own one. I know my opinion is biased from the finds that the Deleon/ RSD produced but I am willing to keep an open mind and learn from those with the experience.Thank You for starting the thread Ivan.
bibelot said:
Don't worry your opinion is not biased the RSD coil it is an excellent coil and works as you say. I and many others will agree with you on that. Just keep in mind there are some folks that are a little biased against DD coils and will have their views as well.
The Tesoro RSD coil is a darn good coil and your 100% spot on about it.
Happy Hunting,
Bill G
Stoof-tabsallday
Well-known member
If you plan on switching coils, as Monte said, the internal GB will be off. I keep my Troy super 7 on mine all the time and I sent it in for a checkup and rebuild of the coil and had them set my machine to that coil and tuned them together. I forget which way it goes but it's something like as you move up in size the GB will go positive and when moving down in size from stock coil the GB goes negative. Or vise versa.cant remember.
But it does need to be set internally because the way the Deleon works and discriminates and the way that the analog is changed to digital display, if the GB is off your readings will be wrong too. Therefore defeating the purpose of the Deleon function as a VDI detector.
This all came straight from Allen at Tesoro when I first called about my Deleon. When they got their hands in it they said they were surprised it worked at all with the machine set internally the way it was and how badly the coil needed to be rebuilt.
But when I got it back it was nighth and day. I live that thing.
Just be warned that changing coils throws the machine off and won't be working optimally.
Good luck and happy hunting!!
But it does need to be set internally because the way the Deleon works and discriminates and the way that the analog is changed to digital display, if the GB is off your readings will be wrong too. Therefore defeating the purpose of the Deleon function as a VDI detector.
This all came straight from Allen at Tesoro when I first called about my Deleon. When they got their hands in it they said they were surprised it worked at all with the machine set internally the way it was and how badly the coil needed to be rebuilt.
But when I got it back it was nighth and day. I live that thing.
Just be warned that changing coils throws the machine off and won't be working optimally.
Good luck and happy hunting!!
I got the 8x11 this spring for the vaquero. Yes, it does ground balance at a different setting than the stock 8x9. Used just that coil all this season and to tell you the truth, do not think I found anything that the 8x9 would not have found. I do not regret getting it, just probably could have spent the money on something else. Next spring I will get the 5.75 concentric for it. Monte is correct, without a GB adjustment, it is a disadvantage to coil changing. The coil that came with it is the coil it is adjusted for. I do not see the 8x11 as being some kind of "miracle" coil that can solve your issue.
My opinion, if you think that the machine has some great ability to pick out the goodies, then you shouldn't change the coil, and you definitely shouldn't tinker with the GB. For the same reason those who wished for a GB on the Golden were thinking wrong. If it is a magic machine, you can only make it worse by changing the settings.
If you just want a deeper machine then stick with a Vaquero or something else that can be GB without monkeying up the ID'ing powers of a Deleon or Golden. Tesoro must see it that way too, that is why the Cortes is only GB adjustable in all metal, not disc mode. Would shift the ID/notching, and then what is the point.
If you just want a deeper machine then stick with a Vaquero or something else that can be GB without monkeying up the ID'ing powers of a Deleon or Golden. Tesoro must see it that way too, that is why the Cortes is only GB adjustable in all metal, not disc mode. Would shift the ID/notching, and then what is the point.