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Threshold

Rich3030

New member
I have heard that the threshold is used to help identify weeker/deeper targets. How does it do this? I know to set it to just audible. If it is too loud it masks out weak signals, which makes sense..as the background hum would be louder than the weak signal.
I have never really noticed a change in the sound level, pitch or steadiness of the threshold other than it blanking out when used with discrimination turned on over a rejected target.
What am I supposed to be hearing in regards to this threshold to help me find deep/weak targets?
Also does anyone know what this sound is representing? eg: is it the resulting sound from the rx signal on the grounds mineralizaion without any target information? Or is it just a baseline audio level to basically center the sound bandwidth?
This is my first machine that has threshold and I can't seem to find much for technical information on this sounds purpose.
 
If you had target ID off, you would hear how the threshold works, but with target ID on, the good signal beeps we are hearing are just an amplified increase in the threshold.
 
nolanation said:
If you had target ID off, you would hear how the threshold works, but with target ID on, the good signal beeps we are hearing are just an amplified increase in the threshold.


Could you explain this some more. I thought I understood threshold but your comment about hearing how it works with target ID of make me wonder what I have beem missing.

What would I hear with target ID off that I am not hearing now?
 
I don't think you are missing much of anything. The CTX amplifies even the slightest increases in the threshold, and can give an ID to it ( a pretty accurate one at that). My deepest signals even had a tone, but it will be light and quick, and usually have a thump after the signal. (I think gonehunting has a video showing the thump). I use discrimination in heavy trash, because I believe I can find signals I may miss with an open screen, with all the iron noise. But I still believe that maximum depth and best target ID comes from an open screen. This is all just MY OPINION and UNDERSTANDING, you may get other ideas or comments regarding the threshold.

A good signal increases the threshold, a bad signal nulls it out. Tone ID amplifies the increase with a tone.
 
Rich3030 said:
What am I supposed to be hearing in regards to this threshold to help me find deep/weak targets?
Also does anyone know what this sound is representing?

The Threshold tone is used as a "benchmark" for our hearing. Our objective should be to set it at a barely audible level. This level can change, based on outside noise, headphones, wireless module usage, and anything else that comes between the audio response of the detector and your ears. I set the level of mine at each site, based on these factors. In setting it, I raise it to a level that is clearly heard. Then I lower it until the sound just disappears. Then I raise it one click, so it is a soft hum "in the background". If you set your Threshold too low, you won't be able to hear the detector null out over rejected targets. If you set the Threshold too high, it can block the audio response of weaker signals. And the reason it can do that is because the Threshold tone is independent from the target response tone. Being independent, you can adjust the pitch to suit your hearing (as well as the level), without having an affect on the pitch of the target tone.

[attachment 260992 thresholdinfo.jpg]

In regard to how a properly adjusted Threshold might "help" with deeper, weaker signals....... By having a barely audible Threshold, we are better able to identify those slight variations in audio tone, when target tone tries to replace Threshold tone. Deep targets may produce a target audio response so weak as to not "lock in" a consistent audio tone. But with a slightly audible Threshold, you will hear that Threshold vary. If the target has been set to reject, the Threshold will "blank" for a short duration. If the target has been set to be accepted, the Threshold will not blank, but will simply vary the pitch. Maybe not to the same pitch as we would expect from a shallow, more stable target response. But it will "warble" in pitch, without going null.

As I mentioned, the Threshold tone is independent of target tones. As such, if you listen real close (and fast) you can hear a target tone "over-ride" the Threshold tone, as you pass over a target. On rejected targets, think of the null as being a "non-tone" sound, (silence), in that silence "over-rides" the Threshold. But even though the Threshold tone is independent of the target tones, it is important to adjust the four audio components....Threshold pitch, Threshold level, Volume limit and Volume Gain...... as a "team". Each of us have different hearing capabilities, hunt at different sites and, frankly, have different preferences as to what we hear. When I set up my 3030, I usually set the Threshold pitch a few clicks lower than the preset of 15. As I've gotten older, the lower pitch tones are more relaxing than high pitch tones. I set my Threshold level to accommodate my headphones and the background noise. Just keep it to barely audible.......the threshold of sound. I usually run my Volume Gain around 28. Having it a bit higher than preset, 28 amplifies all the target signals. I've ran some sites with a Volume Gain of 30. But it seemed that it was more difficult to separate closely adjacent targets. Again, my ears don't hear as well as they use to. And even though running at 28 doesn't give me as much "audio separation" between medium and strong signals, it does make the weaker signals easier to hear. I also run my Volume Limit at 29 with my headphones. I know that I risk having loud bursts of sound come from large, shallow targets. But having run "full bore" with my detectors for over 40 years, it is a hard habit to break. (which probably explains my loss of hearing).

As I've said since the introduction of the CTX 3030....the flexibility of the platform allows each of us to adjust it for our needs. Whether it be selecting the audio options or building a Discrimination Pattern, none of us have the same preferences or techniques. I suggest that everyone have a test garden where they can learn the functionality of their detectors. Learn a proper sweep speed, learn how different Separation modes react differently to similar targets, learn how different audio profiles can help you pull the goodies from the crap. Learn how Threshold settings can (and will) have an influence on how deeply you can hear a target. And when you learn all these things, you will be able to develop a set of adjustments (Programs) that meet your demands for nearly every site you will hunt. And finally, speaking of programs...... there isn't any magic program for the CTX 3030. Although some folks have been gracious enough to share the settings that work for them, that does not guarantee they will work for you. Again, the beauty of the CTX 3030 is that it allows each of us to implement the functionality we need to maximize it's performance, for the sites we hunt. JMHO HH Randy
 
Digger said:
In regard to how a properly adjusted Threshold might "help" with deeper, weaker signals....... By having a barely audible Threshold, we are better able to identify those slight variations in audio tone, when target tone tries to replace Threshold tone. Deep targets may produce a target audio response so weak as to not "lock in" a consistent audio tone. But with a slightly audible Threshold, you will hear that Threshold vary. If the target has been set to reject, the Threshold will "blank" for a short duration. If the target has been set to be accepted, the Threshold will not blank, but will simply vary the pitch. Maybe not to the same pitch as we would expect from a shallow, more stable target response. But it will "warble" in pitch, without going null.

Thanks
That makes more sense. I don't suppose anyone has any videos or audio of what I should be listening for in regards to the warble or varying in pitch?
 
Randy,

Thanks for repeating what I thought I understood from other post of yours. I started with the 705 and your wonderful book on getting the most out of it.

But in contrasting the use of threshold between the two of them it seems that keeping threshold barely audible is less critical with the CTX. The reason for that would seem to be the independent volume gain the CTX has that the 705 lacks. It seems that this feature allows the target signal to overcome a slightly louder threshold volume.
 
Thanks for the comments on the X-TERRA eBook. I appreciate it.
I would say there are more similarities between the Threshold and audio Volumes in the two detectors, than differences. Both allow you to set the Threshold level (over a range of 30 clicks). And both allow you to adjust the Volume of the target response. (705 is 0 - 30 and CTX is 1-30) You make a good observation. But I think the biggest difference (between adjusting the Threshold on each of the two detectors) is the fact that the CTX 3030 allows you to also tune the pitch of the Threshold and allows you to limit the amount of amplification (Volume Limit) from target responses. And as I mentioned earlier, I find it in my best interest to incorporate all four adjustments when I chose my settings. I may be able to "slack off" on getting a perfect harmony between Threshold Level and Volume Gain. But IMO, being able to choose a Threshold Pitch, and limiting the audio amplification of "louder" targets, are the reasons why it might make the "volume" of each less critical. JMHO HH Randy
 
I agree that the Max Volume limiter feature is nice and I use it set down around 8 or 10 with Volume Gain around 24.

I hadn't really equated the Volume setting on the 705 to be exactly the same as the Voulume Gain on the CTX. Since they are not labeled the same I took the 705s Volume Setting as more of a combination the of Volume gain and Volume limit functions on the CTX.

I haven't adjusted pitch yet, your mention of it again will prompt me to.
 
Excellent thread..
Thanks..
Sonny
 
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