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Threshold setting help

Pyledriver

Active member
I was just going over this in the manual yesterday and then saw a post referencing it just now. I don't know if it's tinnitus in my ears, being hard of hearing anyway, or maybe just my particular detector BUT. There's no possible way for me to hear the threshold at lower levels! If I turn it up to where I juuust hear it, it's gonna be above ten, probably around 12-15. Now this may change if I ever get a good set of headphones! I still find some really tiny targets, and some are moderately deep, but now I wonder if I could miss targets by having to have the threshold too high? So far my testing didn't show a lot of difference, but I was air testing and not using anything smaller than a dime at the time?
 
I use garrett treasuresound headphones with my x-terra 70,threshold is 4 and i can hear the threshold just fine. I have found many deep coins,so low threshold setting works for me just fine.:)
 
Your hearing must be worse than mine. However there are times that I can hear at 3 and other times I have trouble hearing at 8. I have worked in a shop for 25 years and am down 20 to 30% in 3 or 4 tone ranges. I only use hearing protection when I percive there are loud jobs running, my own stupidity.

Side note; The freqs I have the most damage to are the same ones most women talk in. Seams that power tools and machinery have frequencies that are very near to what most women speak in... True story.

Jeff
 
OK, I know that we seem to find deeper coins with the Thresh set lower. Why is this?

What I read in the manual lead me to believe that increasing the Threshold would boost a weaker signal.

I have not realy done any tests but follow what I was told here (and will continue to).

Jeff
 
OK, just got home and experimented with it. I can bring the level down to 8 before I just can't really tell if I actually hear it or think I do. That's in my garage with no wind or other noise though. Without the headphone I have it will be about the same, maybe a LITTLE lower like 5, but I guarantee I won't hear that when I'm out detecting. My previous understand of threshold was that it should be set to where you just hear it and then it's good. However, from the manual, it seems that there is a level where it can actually serve to drown out signals. In some ways this almost makes my Xterra a silent search detector-to my ears anyway. I'm going out to hit a new spot tonight and I'll see if it makes any difference.
 
Ya but 5 is a lot lower than 12 you mentioned earlier.

How far out are you from getting your new headphones?

Jeff
 
Threshold, Sensitivity and Ground Balance all work hand-in-hand. Even the proper Noise Cancel channel, to a certain degree. By that I mean setting any of them improperly can result in lack of performance. In fact, if you set your ground balance a bit on the positive side, you can hear the Threshold get louder as you lower the coil to the ground. If your detector is noisy when you sweep the coil, you could stabilize your detector by lowering the Sensitivity or lowering the Threshold. But if it is being unstable due to an incorrect GB, or an improper Noise Cancel Channel, lowering the Sensitivity or Threshold doesn't do anything but keep you from hearing the chatter. It still isn't operating at peak performance. And, by compensating for one incorrect setting by making another, you are actually making matters worse.

The Threshold should be just at the brink of making a steady noise. Loud enough to have it providing a steady buzz in the background. But not loud enough to really notice. To do this properly, set the Noise Cancel Channel first. Then check to make sure your Volume setting is at max. If you want it lower, use the volume controls on your headphones. (Tom might disagree with me on that one :poke: ) After you've set the NC and Vol, turn the Threshold to a point that you can clearly hear it. Then lower it until it disappears. Now, raise it back one number. It might not be a steady tone. But your objective is to get it on the brink of being such. I suppose you could say "on the threshold" of making a solid sound. :lol: The purpose of the Threshold is two-fold. It serves as a background sound so you can hear a rejected target "blank out" the sound. And it serves as a background sound so you can hear it when it is over-ridden (replaced) by a target tone. Note that the Threshold tone pitch is not adjustable. And, it is a different pitch than any target tone. So, when it is replaced by either silence or another tone, you know the coil has passed over something.

The easiest way for me to explain why it is important to have a properly set Threshold is to do so by using values. It is tough to explain. And it isn't scientific by any means. But play along with me for a few minutes. Let's say that a dime buried at 5 inches will produce a target response with a value of 6. And lets say a quarter at 4 inches produces a target response with a value of 13. It would make sense that the dime produces a smaller value than the quarter, as the dime is a smaller target and is buried deeper than the quarter. For the sake of discussion, let's say you've set your Threshold at 5. We set it at 5 because that is the lowest number we can set it, and still hear it. (remember, this "5" is just an example, your hearing might require it to be higher or lower) It stands to reason that any target that produces a tone has to produce enough tone to overcome the Threshold, or you won't hear the change. So, if that dime at 5 inches produces a tone with a value of 6, it will provide enough tone for you to hear it over the 5, represented by the Threshold setting. Mathmatically speaking, it produces a tone that over-rides the Threshold by a value of one. :nerd: However, if you had set the Threshold too high to begin with, say a 9 or 10, that dime producing a tone with a value of 6 will fall 3 or 4 "values" short of over-riding the Threshold. As such, you won't hear that dime at 5 inches. You will hear the quarter with the Threshold set at 5 or at 10. But only because it is large and shallow enough to produce a tone with a value of 13, and over-ride the Threshold levels you set. Had the Threshold been set at a value higher than the 13 produced by the quarter, you wouldn't have heard it either.
Similarly you can set the Threshold too low. Using the same dime value of 6 and quarter value of 13, lets do the same test with a Threshold set at -2. Now, keep in mind that the actual Threshold level we could hear clearly was a 5. We sweep over the dime at five inches and it produces a target audio value of 6. We add this 6 to the -2 where the Threshold is set, and we have a +4. We wouldn't hear the dime because it did not produce enough "sound value" to get the tone loud enough to hear. Remember, we needed a value of 5. We ended up with a 4, due to the low "starting point". The quarter will produce a 13, as described earlier, and even though the Threshold is set at -2, will produce a tone loud enough to hear. We know we needed a value of 5 to hear a tone, we set the Threshold at -2, the quarter produces a tone with a value of 13, making the end result an 11. A full "6 points" more than we had to have, to hear it.

Now, with all this blah, blah, blah..:sleepy:.... we should recognize that a proper Threshold setting is important. Setting it too high could result in targets not producing enough sound to over come the Theshold. And setting it too low could result in targets not producing enough sound to even get to the Threshold. In either case, you'll miss small and deep targets with an improperly set Threshold. JMHO HH Randy
 
Thanks Digger-that helps a lot! I think I was remembering a higher number when I made this post. Turns out that I can set it fairly low but it's just on the ragged edge of me hearing it or not. When I'm searching I sometimes get so used to the tone in my ear that I quit hearing it, so following the manual, I've kept it as low as possible. The idea that the detector may not be optimized if I had to run the threshold high enough to hear was causing me a little worry that I might not be able to hear what the detector might be trying to say!! Not that I haven't done well with it, but more that I want to get familiar enough to wring all the depth I can out of it. On a tot lot it doesn't matter-I regularly hit targets that are below the weed barrier that is under the mulch! However, my old homesites might be a little different, and I KNOW when I go prospecting this spring I'm gonna need to get the most out of my detector! Ditto that for the beach trip I'm planning for summer! Mainly I'm at the point now where I'm past the initial turn on and go or 'general use' settings and now am trying to understand and maximize my understanding of the settings.
 
I experienced the same thing. When using a cheap set of headphones-32 ohms impedance-I have to turn the threshold to about 12 to hear it. When using a quality set of headphones, 150 ohms impedance, I can hear it at about 3.
 
INTERESTING! Another reason I now know I need some better headphones!
 
Pyledriver
I was just going over this in the manual yesterday and then saw a post referencing it just now. I don't know if it's tinnitus in my ears, being hard of hearing anyway, or maybe just my particular detector BUT. There's no possible way for me to hear the threshold at lower levels! If I turn it up to where I juuust hear it, it's gonna be above ten, probably around 12-15. Now this may change if I ever get a good set of headphones! I still find some really tiny targets, and some are moderately deep, but now I wonder if I could miss targets by having to have the threshold too high? So far my testing didn't show a lot of difference, but I was air testing and not using anything smaller than a dime at the time?


I saw a guy useing one of these in-line with his headphones, he was hard of hearing, and he said it will boost your volume, and you can adjust it so you can hear those lower tones more clearly.

http://www.interstatemusic.com/wcsstore/InterstateMusic/ims/ipf/EFFEQ50.jpg
 
Thanks For the info Randy and guys that helps my understanding a bunch.

Jeff
 
Disagree? Nope!

I finally got you to change. :lol:

Volume Thread worth reading.....


It's that "technician" on here we gotta get straightened out! :poke:
 
I spent a week(seemed like a year) in Lansing a few years back giving technical training. During that week I spent some time with my company's Manufacturer's Rep that covered Mich. He related how he would travel up to the Upper P and stay in a little town that had a single Hotel & the only Bar in town. Upon entering the Bar he inquired of the Bar Keep, what kind of Beers they stocked? "Why both kinds" the Bar Keep replied, "Bud & Bud Lite". :poke::lol::beers:

Merry X-Mas Tek Man!

BarStoolBill--Not!
 
Red White and Blue beer??? What kind 'O UP bar was that?







Whiskey, the most popular cure for the common cold that doesn't work
 
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