The Sovereign/Excal Hybrid. Waterproof. Lighter Than & Excal & With Full Function Controls Like A Sovereign & VDI Screen So It's Just As Useful On Lan

[Critterhunter]

I think that one of the reasons the AT Pro is such a success is that it is reasonably priced and more importantly fills a niche market of a water/land machine. I don't own an AT Pro (yet) but the beauty of a waterproof LIGHT detector with full functions and VDI screen is that it's just as at home on land as in the water. That's what makes that machine a good seller. Maybe not as deep on land or in the water as some other machines, but it's still got very good performance and is cheap so it fills both needs of land and water for people. Even people who don't water hunt use the machine because they just plain like it, or like the fact they don't have to worry about rain, and because it's so light and cheap being waterproof as well is not a drawback to them. Of course you don't need a screen in the water, but on land it's needed, and as long as the machine is light and has full function controls like the GT then it's just as comfortable and useful on land as in the water.

I feel there is a huge market out there and plenty of room for others to fill it along side the AT Pro. I was hoping Minelab would replace the Excal and Sovereign with a BBS water machine with full Sovereign functions and VDI screen so it was just as comfortable on land. I would figure by using the old (but still great and pretty much as deep as it gets) BBS technology they could keep the price under a grand to make it attractive to people since they wouldn't need to spend money on research and development of the electronics. Just probably hardware for the most part, with maybe a few tweaks in the electronics or maybe some extra software controls on the VDI screen. Even if it just had the stock GT controls that would be fine though. You would think it would make sense because now they'd only have to make one machine that does what the Sovereign and Excal does and could eliminate them from the cost of manufacturing. Sure, you can wade belly button deep with a Sovereign by chest mounting the control box but being able to go deeper and not worry about getting it wet is better even, not to mention hunting on land in the rain without worry.

Currently there is no light land/water machine out there, or at least one with full functions and VDI screen and being light so it's more useful on land and not just for water, at least at the reasonable price like the AT Pro. I would think it would be a sure bet of a great seller! Sure, there are many water machines you can use on land, but they either lack full function controls and a VDI screen or they aren't light and cheap(er). By using the BBS technology they could avoid alot of expense in R&D and keep the price below a grand.

 

[jyt2017]

I am with you on this. I was really looking forward to the excal 3 when I heard they made a new machine. Right now I think it is what it is. Maybe in next 5 years they will upgrade the excal 2. Maybe not.

Would be great to be able to unlock the salt water mode. It would be AWSOME to be able to use different coils etc etc. The knobs on the excal are inherently defective. I have a 2 year old machine, and by no means should a 1300 dollar machine have failing knobs. I baby my machine. I mean, no one touches it. I never bump it. I gently turn knobs. I do not switch from pp to disc a lot, hardly ever.

More bells an whistles...I am a little hesitent on. An Led screen an stuff means it won't go deep...diving wise. Unless they make it so it will.

There is another manufactuer that has my eyes wide open. In meantime, sovereign gt here I come!!!!

HH an GL. -Joe

I think that one of the reasons the AT Pro is such a success is that it is reasonably priced and more importantly fills a niche market of a water/land machine. I don't own an AT Pro (yet) but the beauty of a waterproof LIGHT detector with full functions and VDI screen is that it's just as at home on land as in the water. That's what makes that machine a good seller. Maybe not as deep on land or in the water as some other machines, but it's still got very good performance and is cheap so it fills both needs of land and water for people. Even people who don't water hunt use the machine because they just plain like it, or like the fact they don't have to worry about rain, and because it's so light and cheap being waterproof as well is not a drawback to them. Of course you don't need a screen in the water, but on land it's needed, and as long as the machine is light and has full function controls like the GT then it's just as comfortable and useful on land as in the water.

I feel there is a huge market out there and plenty of room for others to fill it along side the AT Pro. I was hoping Minelab would replace the Excal and Sovereign with a BBS water machine with full Sovereign functions and VDI screen so it was just as comfortable on land. I would figure by using the old (but still great and pretty much as deep as it gets) BBS technology they could keep the price under a grand to make it attractive to people since they wouldn't need to spend money on research and development of the electronics. Just probably hardware for the most part, with maybe a few tweaks in the electronics or maybe some extra software controls on the VDI screen. Even if it just had the stock GT controls that would be fine though. You would think it would make sense because now they'd only have to make one machine that does what the Sovereign and Excal does and could eliminate them from the cost of manufacturing. Sure, you can wade belly button deep with a Sovereign by chest mounting the control box but being able to go deeper and not worry about getting it wet is better even, not to mention hunting on land in the rain without worry.

Currently there is no light land/water machine out there, or at least one with full functions and VDI screen and being light so it's more useful on land and not just for water, at least at the reasonable price like the AT Pro. I would think it would be a sure bet of a great seller! Sure, there are many water machines you can use on land, but they either lack full function controls and a VDI screen or they aren't light and cheap(er). By using the BBS technology they could avoid alot of expense in R&D and keep the price below a grand.

 

[Critterhunter]

I agree. I don't want to see a complex machine. Just Sovereign controls (notch, PP mode, etc) in terms of it's switches and dials in a waterproof machine and a simply VDI meter. All that's needed for both land and water. The raw BBS power for depth and pulling coins out of iron is already there. But, if they do add a few features, perhaps being able to zero out iron rejection when wanted (but still using Iron Mask when wanted to still pull coins out of iron), maybe a simple depth meter on the side of the VDI # display, or perhaps some learn accept/reject ability or something...Or just a variable notch that could be set width wise by putting a second dial on top of the existing notch dial, then when you move those two dials the VDI shows a # for the starting and ending point. Built in limiter for not being blasted by surface stuff would be nice withou needing special headphones.

 

[dewcon4414]

The problem with combining those to machines and adding a screen would again be PRICE to us. Id love to see some improvements in the Xcal. Heck even giving us the mods we all ready do would be a huge plus. They have the testing in place with the CTX and pretty well know how us salt water hunters feel about it. IF.... they were to combine them and put another price tag on it like the CTX..... that might also mean they do away with the lesser priced Sov and Xcal. Can you say ouch? I LIKE the pressure rating of the Xcal and wouldnt want anything to take that away.... like a TID screen id never use. Why would you want a TID Critter..... you already say you out hunt the TOP ML FBS machines? Adding a screen means you would use it to NOT dig targets..... ever think that might be why you do well? Once again it all comes back to each of these machine fill a nitch. For diving and salt water simple is still the best option. Give us some of those water proof headphones, an option to change coil, straight shaft and decent knobs..... those are just weak points that give the Xcal a black eye.

Dew

 

[deepdiger60]

The problem with combining those to machines and adding a screen would again be PRICE to us. Id love to see some improvements in the Xcal. Heck even giving us the mods we all ready do would be a huge plus. They have the testing in place with the CTX and pretty well know how us salt water hunters feel about it. IF.... they were to combine them and put another price tag on it like the CTX..... that might also mean they do away with the lesser priced Sov and Xcal. Can you say ouch? I LIKE the pressure rating of the Xcal and wouldnt want anything to take that away.... like a TID screen id never use. Why would you want a TID Critter..... you already say you out hunt the TOP ML FBS machines? Adding a screen means you would use it to NOT dig targets..... ever think that might be why you do well? Once again it all comes back to each of these machine fill a nitch. For diving and salt water simple is still the best option. Give us some of those water proof headphones, an option to change coil, straight shaft and decent knobs..... those are just weak points that give the Xcal a black eye.

Dew

Give us some of those water proof headphones, an option to change coil, straight shaft and decent knobs..... those are just weak points that give the Xcal a black eye . Iam with Dew why would anyone want another add-on to spring a leak like a TID Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

Never said I out hunt the FBS machines. Just that the GT, at least with the 12x10, is doing just as well when we compare undug targets.

All you have to do is look at the success of the AT Pro and see why a Sov/Xcal hybrid with Sov controls and a VDI meter in a waterproof machine would be a huge success. Sure, there are some divers who want the Xcal because it's rated for dive depths, but a 10 foot raiting like the AT Pro is all that is needed for probably 98% of all water hunters who only wade or get as deep as their neck at the max. The Xcal is a great machine and some do land hunt with it, but the reality is it's far too heavy for most land hunters unless you hip mount or something, and it lacks a VDI so it's not as useful on land. By combing the best of both worlds....waterproof like an Xcal, more controls and a VDI meter like the GT, and then put it in a package that isn't super heavy...Now you've got one stone to kill two birds. A machine that you can buy for both land and water, or even just for land but with the piece of mind that rain won't cause it problems. Many AT Pro guys never even water hunt. Although it doesn't have Minelab depth in many soils due to minerals or salt, it still is said to be a pretty darn good performer. Some Minelab guys also use it as a backup to work heavy trash or iron without the need to swing as slow.

I just think it would make perfect business sense to Minelab as well. No production costs to make two machines but rather just production costs for one that covers both markets. That's just me though. Cost wise since much of the R&D for BBS technology is already done, if they decided to put a little more money into that they could perhaps give you the option to zero out iron rejection but still retain the ability to turn it back on and let Iron mask work it's magic. A simple second smaller dial on top of the existing notch one to set the width of the notch window I think would also be a decent idea. With less R&D costs maybe they could keep the machine south of $1000 and compete directly with the AT Pro. I think a machine like that would be a huge winner. Yes, a waterproof coil connector for using various Sovereign coils as well as a waterproof headphone connector for changing that. The problomatic Xcal dial pots would be a non-issue since the new machine would be maybe using Sovereign style ones. Or, they could ditch some of the switches and dials and put them on-screen with a few pad buttons to change them, but still retaining the simple control functions many love of the Xcal and Sovereign. Some people just don't like a ton of fancy flashy controls and like the KISS method.

 

[dewcon4414]

Why would ML want to only produce one machine when they have 2 GREAT machines right now and making money hand over fist?? They have thrown the CTX at you if you dont want a true pressure tested machine that works on the beach/water/land. Looks like they have all bases covered to me. Ask any of the people using the CTX how well that TID screen helps them out there neck deep. That type of machine may help you.... but certainly not us water hunters. No one needs a complicated machine in water just one with good depth.... say PI depth along with better sensitivity to small gold.... like chains and of course those great tones. You are really confused if you think the Xcal is competing with the AT Pro as a water machine. Sounds like to me you need to get Garrett to make the AT Pro a duel freq and you are home free.

Dew

 

[Critterhunter]

Look at the picture below first BEFORE you go to the link...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1275478,1275478#msg-1275478

 

[deepdiger60]

That would be nice I would still hip mount it Jim

 

[Critterhunter]

I think our differences in opinion are that you are coming from the perspective of a primary water hunter perhaps (?) and are reading the wrong things into what I'm saying. I don't argue the AT Pro gets the depth of the Xcal, and I'm not saying the AT Pro can handle salt water or mineralized beaches as good as an Xcal either. What I am saying is that the AT Pro is a huge success because it's light, has a full function LCD screen, and is cheap, so it's very attractive to people who want one machine to both water and land hunt. In fact, many people own one that never even water hunt because it stands on it's own merits as a land machine too and is just fine and at home on land due to it's full functions and LCD meter. The fact that it's waterproof is just icing on the cake for them on those rainy days land hunting.

I've seen some land hunters do rather well with the AT Pro in heavy iron or trash at pulling out silver. Sure, the Minelabs are also known for pulling stuff out of iron rather well, but there are days when people are in the mood to swing faster and not risk missing targets. That's what some guys have it for a backup for even if they have a more capable land machine already. That's why I'm eyeing one to sit along side my GT. I myself can't justify spending so much on an Xcal just to water hunt when I can already wade belly deep with my GT chest mounted, so for days I want to go deeper, or for days I'm in the mood to swing faster on land, I think it would be the perfect compliment to my line up of machines. Besides all that, if I did buy an Excal I'd have to modify it drastically like I did my GT in order to make it more user friendly. No such ergonomic considerations need to be done with the AT Pro. I'm also a fresh water only hunter so the excellent abilities of the Xcal to handle salt isn't a concern of mine, but I do know the AT Pro still won't get the depth of an Xcal/Sov.

Another factor to consider is that most water hunters don't need dive rated detectors as they are only wading up to their neck at the most. For sure if one intends to dive then the Xcal is the way to go for that aspect of water hunting.

I'm not knocking the Excal. I'm just saying that for my individual needs and financial considerations it's not a good fit for me. I just can't get over the idea of spending that much money for a waterproof version of my GT that just allows me to go another foot or two deeper than I can already wade with the GT. I guess you could say I'm pricing by the foot in that respect. Roughly $700 a foot for that extra two feet or so is just a little two steep for me.

Back to the whole point of this thread. It wasn't to promote the AT Pro compared to the Excal or anything. It was just to say that I think Minelab could kill two birds with one stone by combining the best of the Xcal and Sovereign into one unit. If it was light and cheap enough I think it would be a huge seller for them, and then they would save the cost of having two manufacture two machines and only have to produce one. Maybe they could phase out the Sovereign but still keep the current dive rated Xcal for divers, while this new hybrid unit would fill the need for a land/wading machine. I would think they could keep the cost down since the R&D for BBS technology wouldn't be part of the expense because it already exists. They wouldn't even have to re-format the current GT circuit board to fit a waterproof control box, and just add a few tweaks to the electronics such as giving you the option to zero out iron rejection. They could build it like Crazyman's picture above.

Another good idea is that since he put a waterproof coil connector on it, you could plug that into a meter for land hunting and then remove the meter if you wanted for water hunting, but make the meter waterproof so people have the option of not removing it while water hunting if they didn't want to. I think that would be a killer idea.

 

[Critterhunter]

That would be nice I would still hip mount it Jim

Yea, that's the beauty of his design. Still could be hip or chest mounted for less resistance when swinging in the water, or for those who like to do that when land hunting. He included a waterproof connector, so not only could use easily switch to any Sovereign coil on the market, but also so you could plug an existing Sovereign meter into it for land hunts, or perhaps Minelab could come out with a waterproof one that you could then take off or leave on as your choice for hunting in the water.

I think giving people those kinds of options (hip/chest mount, using or taking off a meter, being able to switch coils, being able to zero out iron rejection if you want but still be able to go to the old Iron Mask iron rejection mode too) would all be killer user choices in customizing and using such a machine. It would make it probably the most versatile land/water hunter on the market in user configuration. Even the zeroing out iron rejection feature wouldn't be much in R&D. Just let the current discrimination dial click down into a level where iron rejection is turned off and you could then adjust the level of rejection you want or none at all. Same dial as the GT has now, but just with added control. The only other tweak to the controls I'd like to perhaps see is a second notch dial on top of the current one (two dials stacked on top of each other) so that you could adjust the width of the notch too. Beyond that, perhaps a tweak to the electronics so it now has a built in limiter circuit so you don't need special headphones for that. Crazyman's design has removable headphones so that too is user customizable.

I really think they could keep the cost down due to a lack of expensive R&D to the current BBS technology. Just modify the current GT circuit board with a few minor enhancements maybe as I described above. A large part of the cost of a product is due to needing to re-coop the costs of research and development. They'd be putting very little time into R&D for a few minor enhancements to the electronics and would mainly be spending a little money on designing the hardware. Heck, they could even use the current machines that product the current GT circuit board and just add a few minor enhancements on the assembly line to it. That should be a big money saver and so perhaps they could price the machine somewhere around the price of the GT. Eliminate the GT and still keep the more expensive XCal in their line up for those who need a machine that can handle dive rated pressures.

 

[Critterhunter]

I just put together a huge list of waterproofing Sovereign threads, from simply "throw it in a box" jobs, to "throw it in a waterproof backpack type deals, to custom ones where the the control box is ditched and the electronics custom installed into a new waterproof box with external controls. I also included some links to custom jobs on other detectors that give some great ideas on how one might go about such a project as well as part sources for things like waterproof POT controls and such. You can make a project like this as cheap and simple as you want to or as complicated and high tech as you want, but still in the end probably save a bunch of money over buying a waterproof detector. You can also make this product so that your control box can be removed and placed back on your land rig in a matter of minutes. You can also go the elaborate way and use waterproof connectors for your headphones and coils connected to the box, or the cheap way and just use some heavy rubber cement such as Shoe Goo. The ideas and methods are endless...

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?22,1742794