The continuing saga...

[Anonymous]

I want to thank all of you who again responded to my question on depth.
I decided to contact a well known expert who I will refer to as Bob. Bob says basicaly if I send the unit to his company all they will do is confirm that the unit can air test a coin at 7 inches, and send it back.
When I told him about my coin garden he told me that the coins in my coin garden will need to sit there for about fifty years before they will develop the necissairy halo effect to be identified deeper than four inches.
I have to be missing some basic piece to this puzzle. Alternatives I've been told of like audio 1 or grey ghosts or WOT coils ultimately will have a place in my arsinal but for now, Im stuck on square one. Ive been stuck on square one since about a month after I bought the thing. Here are the pieces to the puzzle I do have
1) Are my settings correct? and the answer is yes, I have tried many many different setups all of which were suggested by people who have been to the promissed land (so to speak)
2) is it the machine? the short answer is no, the machine is fine, I have some decent proof to back that up.
3} Are their coins in the ground in your area deeper than 7 inches.
-yes I burried them myself
3a} Are their coins in the ground in your area deeper than 7 inches that have the mysterious fifty year halo?
-In my opinion, there is no such thing as a detectorist who would have the will power to positively identify a coin that deep and not dig it up and see what it is. there are plenty at 5-7 inches that again would have been dug up before I got there but werent. so logic says If there are semi deep ones there that couldnt be found previously and they isnt some physical barrier, there will be deeper ones as well
4)Is It me?
-I kind of doubt it, I feel that Im at least good enough after using it for over one thousand hours. I hunt only at parks generaly so hunted out that no one bothers anymore, and find some reall impressive stuff. I dig a fair ammount of pull tabs, square nails and junk as well which also tells me I'm doing a reasonably thourough job.
Other users have found deep ones (more than 7 inches) using all stock equipment and with a variety of settings not necissairly real "hot".
So If you havn't gotten to a point where you wish i'd just go away
HELP ME!!! <img src="/metal/html/confused.gif" border=0 width=15 height=22 alt=":?">

 

[Anonymous]

Many Indian heads I have found in this area are at 7 to 8". Most have been in the 6 to 7" depth range. I have posted that many many times. I have found other coins and tokens at 8 to 10". There are those deep ones, a token I measured with a depth reading of 13.5" which is the deepest target, coin or token, that I have found in years. I have found relics, iron, at a litte more than 15".
It is hard to quantify as I don't keep records. Once I saw that the detectors I use find deep coins and measure a few I no longer worry about it. I measured the blade length of the tool I use to dig with and use that as a guide. So I almost never think about depth other than to notice a real deep one and how it measures, approximate, with the known length of the blade of the tool.
I compared this same method to the top machies on the market and settled on thee detectors. The Explorer, DFX, and Sovereigh Elite. I know all these do a great job and don't think about depth when I go out in the field. About the only time I give it a thought is when it comes up on the forum.
I think 7 to 8" on a new penny is great and I would not be concerend at all. So, I am not sure what you are looking for. What depth do you want on a new penney?
Frozen soil by the way will just about kill the detection depth of a VLF.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

Now I'm a little confused, You ask what depth I'm looking to acheive on a new penny. I dont hunt for new pennies and therefor dont really care what depth they are.
I hunt for old coins, and I feel I should be able to find a silver dime or penny up to eleven inches deep with my explorer. I dont expect to do this every day, but occasionaly. I feel I should be able to find coins at nine inches deep maby like once a month, and at 11 inches once in a blue moon.
you mensioned indian heads you find from 6 to 8 inches and I agree that the ones I find are probably 5 to 7 inches deep but there is my whole obsession right there:
do we find these coins at those depths because thats as deep as they get, or is that as deep as we can find them. It is my beleif that there could be alot of deeper coins we are walking right over.

 

[Anonymous]

Yes we could be walking over deeper coins and I am sure we are too. The secret is listening for them and know what to listen for. I have dug dime at 10-11 inches, but the conditon have to be right with the right setting that you will have to set for the area. I dont get a lot of deep ones, but do at times.
These setting we read about on these fourms may work for some and some they will not. I was told to run 32 auto sensitivity for the best depth and guess what? I could not pick up a dime on top of the ground unless the coil touched it. Now 16 auto or manual did good for me and could get 5 or 6 inches on the dime on top of the ground, the area was just too trashy to run that high of sensitivity.
The coins I have seen at the normal 6 or 7 inches read good and lock on fairly well, but those deeper sometimes will not lock on and will be differnt tones too. These I just have to dig if I know they are iffy and do dig alot of trash too, but have also got a barber quarter at 13-14 inches too.
When I know I want to work a area that may be holding deep coins I will run manual sensitivity as high as I can without a lot of chattering, run my recovery at deep and go very very slow and listen close to any signal and check from differnt angles. I dig anything i am not sure of to be sure of what it is. Now if I am working a area I dont think has much over 8 or 9 inches i will run my sensitivity at 25-28 auto and can go a little faster as i have a smooth threshold.
Some say you have to run a iron mask at a -14 though a -16 to do good, well the guy around here that has over 284 silvers this year with some over 12 inches deep runs a -4 with manual sensitivity at 24-27 most of the time and kicks butt.
The only thing I can recomend is know what your setting do and set them the way they work the best for you. Get a weaker signal and try differnt setting untill you see which one sounds the best and use it. Go slow and remember the deep ones will not sound like the ones that are only down 5 or 6 inches. If it is repeatable and weak you will want to dig and see what it is.
Good Luck
Rick

 

[Anonymous]

Todd, I believe it depends on the soil. When I hunted in Nebraska I found coins deeper than I do in most areas I now hunt. I think most coins around in the 1850 to 1900 in this area are, penny 6 to 8", dime the same, quarters 6 to 8" and a half at 8 to 12". From my experiences the coins in the area I search have depth that are directly associated with the type of soil and how long they been in the ground. NASA Tom is an engineer that has several articles that also mentions this. It is learning the zones of different metals in an area.
One old park I hunt will constantly produce barber and Indian heads at 6.5". The soil mostly has some rock but not to the extreme. I hunt in a nice field where soldiers camped during the CW and the soil has about 6 to 10" of top soil then clay. There is almost no rock so I have found silver coins at 12" with no problem. They are reales and are heavy. The old rural schools were on the worst soil in a track of land so I find coins that are no deeper than 3 to 4" and must dig through rubble.
Anyhow, I know the machine you are using if it is an Explorer will find coins at the depth you want. I said new penny only becasue you mention a test garden so I maent a newly burried coin.
I think what many are saying is if you get out with the detector and use all metal you should quickly know how deep the machine detects. No more than a day. That is important becasue if you find deep metal at the depth you feel you need then if there is an old coin within those ranges where you find deep metal of any type then you will find the coins.
I cannot say or do anything as we want to have confidence when we hunt that we are not walking over coins due becasue of too little depth. That is true ofr all of us I think. Test gardens are good but not the true story. That is why I said if I get 7" on a new penny I don't worry. I have used the explorer and othe detectors long enough to know they have the depth to find coins as deep as I need to go in this area.
I have also measured the distance of the flux from the coils and know that on any coin it is going to be 15" max if under the best conditions. A good silver half dollar that is flat in good soil can be hit at 12 to 15". We find more dimes that are silver than any coin so in this soil it is in the 6 to 8" range. I adjusted that a little becasue I also find barber dimes at no more than 3 to 4".
Experience in the field in all metal for a while will give you cofidence in the depth and a good idea what the different zones are for coins in your neck of the woods.
I am not trying to sell you on an Explorer. I use two other machines as I said and like them. I also used all the land Fishers, Garretts, NautilusIIb, Whites DFX, XLT, 6000di, 5900di, and several PI detectors. I think a person should use the ones they enjoy and have confidence in or like the way the work and/or the setting and how they are used. So in no way I am attempting to push the Explorer. I use it becasue of the confidence I have in the detector as well as the two others I use.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

Good post and very good points. We really get into trouble with the one setting for all areas. When I read the post that state they never change their setting then I guess they only hunt one area or type of soil and the soil has the same amount of trash metals.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

How is your hearing? Do you hear tones well or are you tone deaf. Indeed good earphones that compliment your hearing are a must. Heck you might be walking right over them. Explorer must be swung slow with little space between the coil and the ground as Minelabs hate air.Being a slow swinger by nature and using many units took to an Explorer like a fish to water but the weight and ergonomics were a problem. In the same breath struggled for years with an XLT and DFX while my partner a Whites user excelled with his. Are there Explorer Guru's per se perhaps not but many fellows have found what works in his area and do well. Have a agree with Bob as Minelab will tell you 7-8 inches under lab. conditions is fine with an Explorer, but many go deeper in various areas
with proper setups so indeed no hot setups only ones that work in your area..Heres a plan..get a local mentor if possible and setup both machines the same and spend a few days together, above all checking his diggable signals as it is worth many readings of the manual. In addendum some units just work better in some states than others and some areas coins just go deeper. I really feel an Explorer is an excellent unit but perhaps is not for everyone. Am I an Explorer Guru( heck no) perhaps a CZ guru of sorts as I used one since 92 but I do have a good working knowledge of one. Remember the hobby is to have fun and although Joe may Excell with an XLT or Mike with an Explorer perhaps another unit may be your cup of tea. Do try that hands on approach with a mentor if possible and perhaps all will fall into place and your saga will end and you will be finding deep coins and perhaps helping out with a post or two to help as thats what this forum is all about..

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Dan
I beleive I have exceptionaly good hearing as I am a musician and sound man. It is possible that I may have some sort of inner ear damage that causes problems with certain pitches, but I ve never had anything else suggest that. Good suggestion though.

 

[Anonymous]

I sure don't have an answer, as mine goes down in my test garden, I put in about 4 or 5 years ago, on pennys, nickles, dimes, and quarters. I have them anywhere from 7 to 10 inches and it gets them all without any problem. So a while ago, I decided to try out my 7 1/2 in coil to see what it would do and it also got them all with no problem. All showed up on the screen where they should also. I'm sure it will go deeper, as good as they hit. I'm also pretty new to the Explorer, but have been detecting for a while with a CZ and a White's.

 

[Anonymous]

I tested my detector but only on the ground which is an air test. With the small coil I could detect a new penny at 12" and a very strong signal. I tried both manual and Auto Sensitivity and had no problem with them. There was some noise problem in manual. In tht house with strong RF I could get the same 12" in manual but only about 7" in semi-auto. The semi-auto adjusted the sensitivity way down with all the stray RF.
I also checked Noise cancel and the penny on the ground was a problem is I Noise canceled over a soil area that gave a null in normal operation. If I found a spot that had no targets to noise cancel then the depth was as expected.
I read by through the users manual and they say to noise cancel over ground where there are no targets which is what I thought was needed from reading the patents. So, I confirmed that in my thinking.
Again, I did not go to great lengths here as it is Sunday and we have a lot of activities to get done. It was enough to prove pretty much what I expected from past test and use.
I also tested sweep speed and the idea to always sweep ultra slow is not correct. It depends on if we use semi-auto, manual, and Fast ON. There is a speed that is so slow that there is almost no response. However I could not sweep so fast that no target was detected. It turns out that it is not to fast but to slow that creates the problem. The slowest speed was when in manual. If FAST was ON then it required a faster sweep speed for the same signal response. Audio 1, 2, 3 also required the user to adjust the sweep speed. This is also correct in how the circuits work.
So the bottom line is test for sweep speed depending on if these setting are on or off. There is a best sweep speed for the settings. In addition it depends on how much trash there is and if we use discrimination or not. One must adjust the speed to allow the threshold to reset after a null and detect the next target in the sweep.
Once the detector is set up then test for the ideal sweep speed which often is not slow. However, it is never a speed that is uncomfortable but still faster than ultra slow as you see some guys suggest. That only works in manul with and depends on other setting. I checked with Minelab as did one other on the forum and they suggest Semi-auto. Manual ON for expereienced users in light minerals under conditons where there are no or very little external RF. The stable operation is much more critical than any benefits of manual. The bottom line here is they suggest Semi-auto. So, this is one for each person to do as they prefer or think best. The folks that designed and use the machine say semi-auto. I use both but most often semi-auto because the detector is unstable in the areas I hunt most if I use manual.
Hope this helps,
Cody

 

[Anonymous]

Todd, I have been using Detectors since 1997 and Explorers since 2000. Silver coins...about three! <img src="/metal/html/shrug.gif" border=0 width=37 height=15 alt=":shrug"> I just think if your coil doesn't pass over it you won't find it. Kind of simple but I really believe that and just plain luck. HH

 

[Anonymous]

Will yours hit a half dollar at 8-10 inches? It should quite easily...unless your ground minerlization is really freaky or there are alien reators buried deeply somewhere nearby which may be scrambling the signals on your detector <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol">
Good luck and HH,
Greg

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with this as the detection depth depends on surface area and a fob the size of a half should be easy to detect at that depth. I would expect a half to be hit at 15 inches unless there were some real serious problems with co-located targets. Even then it should give a signal that would cause one to use iron mask to further probe the targe if using discrimination.
In the sixties we were talking about which detector or detector and coil combination got the most depth. In the seventies we added discrimination to the debate. We then added VLF and how many frequencies and no doubt will add a few other topics as the technology advances. In the end we have to come to our on conclusions as to what works best for us in our neck of the woods. And that is how it should be.
HH, Cody

 

[Anonymous]

Wish I could find a IH or wheaty at only 5"-8" That would be great...BUT the wheatys I get are nearly 8"to 11"plus and I get'em ....I just found my first IH and it was 12" plus That's my deepist to date and I've been detecting on & off twenty years. Silver dimes are ranging at the 10"-11" spot.I would kill not to have to dig so deep to get'em.(I'm not 18 any more). Most times I'm at the local park thats been pounded over and over from the new guys to the experienced. I've been usin the XS for about a year now and still need to switch different programs in different areas because of the ground conditions...
Takes time to learn the machine. I also thought I was walkng over the deeper coins. I also believe I'm not in an area that will produce any 1500's or 1600's coinage(that would be nice)but havta learn the area & the machine at the same time,which takes some time.
Only wish I could help ya out and go MD'in with ya but.........I'm stuck here for now
GOOD luck...You'll get it sooner than ya think & HH

 

[Anonymous]

I reached in and pried her up with my fingers, ran and got a tape measure and was a true believer in the Explorer ever since.

 

[Anonymous]

If you can do better than the last guy, like get 1 inch deeper or get twice as good target separation, then, I would have to say you are doing well. People pay big bucks for that extra inch of depth. Expecting the Explorer to get 11 inches when other top of the line detectors can get 7 or 8 inches is probably not reasonable, especially if trash is involved. Remember, all discriminating detectors are based on the same technology, more or less.
That extra 1 inch is not peanuts, it's prime virgin territory.
I waited to get an Explorer because I was holding out for a detector that could ID a dime easily at 10 inches (my other detector got 7). I caved in because I realized I may be waiting a very long time and in the the meantime, other guys would be cleaning sites out with the Explorer. I can sometimes reach that 10 inch dime with much difficulty, but I don't worry about it. I know I made a good detector choice at the time and that 10" dime will probably still be there 20 years from now. When better detector technology comes along I may be able to get it. If not, I don't care if a few get away.
I get my best depth when I attack area in small chunks, like 5'x5', going really slow and from several directions.

 

[Anonymous]

Indeed only one factor among many and many to be considered, but an Explorer will go deep under the right conditions.
I like your idea of hunting a 5 x 5 area and covering alll the ground coming in from different angles and directions. One local fellow used to rope off an area to do just this and found silver coins in areas many thought worked out 10 years ago. He really had a lot of patience as he first hunted it in all metal removing the masking targets and then went over it again in discrimination. Certainly a aspect to be considered as I would venture to say many good coins are lost due to masking probbly more than ones too deep....