BarnacleBill
New member
On this day of celebration & reflection in the U.S. I thought it might be a moment to stop and take stock of what has occurred with this forum, the X-Terras, and some detector philosophy rambling.
In thinking about detectors I often reflect on what a 90th percentile metal detector is. And by this I mean a detector that will cover the 90 percent of the types of detecting the average hobbyist engages in. Not within this group would be detectors like the Kilobuck Minelab PI detectors or units such as the Nautilus which appeals to a very narrow segment of the market. One of the first detectors that always comes to mind is the Garrett Ace 250 which is a very popular beginner unit that some users stick with and never give up. With the spread of hobby priced detectors now including at the top a $1700 White's, my opinion is that the $199 Ace 250 will find 80% of what the average user is looking for at 1/8th the price.
It's once one ventures above the Ace 250 into the messy mid-range where things get interesting. Many Ace 250 users feel that the 250 is better than any of the current Garrett mid-range and refuse to pay more. Some also feel by association that the 250 is better than any other mid-range priced detectors since they are better than the Garrett mid-ranges. There seems to have been a bit of a marketing push in the last year to get those danged Ace 250 users to step up the in the Garrett line. But even to my eye they're mid-range detectors remind me of the Heathkit Amateur Radio gear that I used to put together as a kid, functional, but we're not winning any industrial design awards here, and the performance is not exactly cutting edge.
Tesoro has many units in the mid-range arena with decent performance on the beep-digs, the VDI-TID units may have been competitive in the late 80's, but that was several Presidents ago. But sadly the Garrett Ace 250 is higher ranked in my mind to the Tesoro VDI-TIDs. And yes they have good service, but it's easy to stock parts when you haven't changed the basic design in 15 years! The "good service" comes at a price, especially the warranty service. Every dime Tesoro spends on the "bottomless cup of coffee" warranty is a dime that they don't have to do significant R&D. They're stuck in a time warp, a prisoner to their own good service. And their popular beep dig detectors are low tech enough that they will be easy pickin's for the Chinese. The Chinese always go for the low fruit first when they begin to target a market. And Tesoro IS the low fruit!
First Texas has taken the shot gun approach with the Fisher & Teknetics brands in the mid-range lines to produce a 90th percentile detector. And with the quality control issues many of their customers would like to take a shot gun approach to them. They claim to be "American Made", but that is virtually in name only. They just happen to be just "North of the Border", and even a perfunctory examination of the Demographics & wage structure of the El Paso area will point to why they're manufacturing there. Indiana it ain't! And I personally know of a very large U.S. corp that moved there from the U.S. mid-west and found the quality so bad that a few years later they moved to China for better quality! So far they're mid-range offerings have fallen pretty flat. The forum traffic is very weak indicating a pretty low market penetration. With each new release there's a little forum flourish and then meh. Most of these units struggle to compete with the Ace 250 considering the doubling of price in most instances. There appears that there may be some glimmer of hope to have a 80+ detector with the latest Teknetics branded units. If, and this is a big if, they can get the QC in order. ISO certification would do First Texas a world of good, it would force them into self examination.
White's has had the popular MXT which is still holding it's own and has a good following, but the design is how old? Some more money was to be squeezed out of the old girl with the M6 release but that for the most part seems to have been panned. But the MXT is a serious contender up in the 90th range. The Prizm's? My sincerest condolences to White's, those suckers were DOA, and yet they took another bite at the apple with the 6T. Why are you pouring more money down a rat hole White's? Which brings us to the Classics et al, aside from the MXT vs X70/X705, these are probably the biggest competitors to the rest of the X-Terra line. Even though they are dated, they appear to be somewhat contemporary and are in many people's arsenal who are unwilling to part with them ala' the Garrett Ace 250. I consider that group to be in the 85 percent range for many average detector users.
Which brings us to 4 1/2 years ago when Minelab had no mid-range VDI-TID unit. They did their homework, surveyed the market, and pounced. Just as when the Explorer was released the U.S. manufacturer's got caught with their panties down around their ankles. Is/was it Minelab's responsibility to watch out for American jobs or the U.S. manufacturer's responsibility? Minelab has two PhD level physicist's designing detectors, and the U.S. manufacturer's have what? By White's own admission they have been working on the new V3 for 5(five) years, let me repeat that, 60 months! Just like there are "dog years", in "electronics development years" the V3 was started in the Ice Age! Much of Minelab's success is due to U.S. manufacturer's failure to execute! The V3 is the White's answer to the Explorer, but five years later. And for certain there would be no V3 if Minelab had not pushed White's to compete. If you purchase a V3 and like it, some of the thanks is due to Minelab for pushing White's.
In the 4 1/2 years this forum has had over 25,000 posts and the FAQ viewed more than 15,000 times. No other single model series has had this kind of traffic on Findmall with the exception of the Explorers. Not the MXT forum which is a much older detector, or even the White's general forum. This speaks to the popularity of the X-Terras as the preeminent mid-range VDI-TID detector and to the dedication of the forum participants in providing outstanding support to fellow detectors users. With it's performance, feature set, & flexibility I believe they meet the 90th percentile better than any other mid-range unit on the market. And challenge even much higher priced detectors(Ace 250itis
).
So come on U.S. manufacturer's! If you're not thinking or worried about the X-Terra X305 you should be! There's a giant pool of Ace 250 users out there and right now the X305 is the obvious upgrade choice. Are you going to let Minelab continue to kick highly mineralized Ozzy sand in your face or produce something credible to compete?
HH
BarnacleBill
In thinking about detectors I often reflect on what a 90th percentile metal detector is. And by this I mean a detector that will cover the 90 percent of the types of detecting the average hobbyist engages in. Not within this group would be detectors like the Kilobuck Minelab PI detectors or units such as the Nautilus which appeals to a very narrow segment of the market. One of the first detectors that always comes to mind is the Garrett Ace 250 which is a very popular beginner unit that some users stick with and never give up. With the spread of hobby priced detectors now including at the top a $1700 White's, my opinion is that the $199 Ace 250 will find 80% of what the average user is looking for at 1/8th the price.
It's once one ventures above the Ace 250 into the messy mid-range where things get interesting. Many Ace 250 users feel that the 250 is better than any of the current Garrett mid-range and refuse to pay more. Some also feel by association that the 250 is better than any other mid-range priced detectors since they are better than the Garrett mid-ranges. There seems to have been a bit of a marketing push in the last year to get those danged Ace 250 users to step up the in the Garrett line. But even to my eye they're mid-range detectors remind me of the Heathkit Amateur Radio gear that I used to put together as a kid, functional, but we're not winning any industrial design awards here, and the performance is not exactly cutting edge.
Tesoro has many units in the mid-range arena with decent performance on the beep-digs, the VDI-TID units may have been competitive in the late 80's, but that was several Presidents ago. But sadly the Garrett Ace 250 is higher ranked in my mind to the Tesoro VDI-TIDs. And yes they have good service, but it's easy to stock parts when you haven't changed the basic design in 15 years! The "good service" comes at a price, especially the warranty service. Every dime Tesoro spends on the "bottomless cup of coffee" warranty is a dime that they don't have to do significant R&D. They're stuck in a time warp, a prisoner to their own good service. And their popular beep dig detectors are low tech enough that they will be easy pickin's for the Chinese. The Chinese always go for the low fruit first when they begin to target a market. And Tesoro IS the low fruit!
First Texas has taken the shot gun approach with the Fisher & Teknetics brands in the mid-range lines to produce a 90th percentile detector. And with the quality control issues many of their customers would like to take a shot gun approach to them. They claim to be "American Made", but that is virtually in name only. They just happen to be just "North of the Border", and even a perfunctory examination of the Demographics & wage structure of the El Paso area will point to why they're manufacturing there. Indiana it ain't! And I personally know of a very large U.S. corp that moved there from the U.S. mid-west and found the quality so bad that a few years later they moved to China for better quality! So far they're mid-range offerings have fallen pretty flat. The forum traffic is very weak indicating a pretty low market penetration. With each new release there's a little forum flourish and then meh. Most of these units struggle to compete with the Ace 250 considering the doubling of price in most instances. There appears that there may be some glimmer of hope to have a 80+ detector with the latest Teknetics branded units. If, and this is a big if, they can get the QC in order. ISO certification would do First Texas a world of good, it would force them into self examination.
White's has had the popular MXT which is still holding it's own and has a good following, but the design is how old? Some more money was to be squeezed out of the old girl with the M6 release but that for the most part seems to have been panned. But the MXT is a serious contender up in the 90th range. The Prizm's? My sincerest condolences to White's, those suckers were DOA, and yet they took another bite at the apple with the 6T. Why are you pouring more money down a rat hole White's? Which brings us to the Classics et al, aside from the MXT vs X70/X705, these are probably the biggest competitors to the rest of the X-Terra line. Even though they are dated, they appear to be somewhat contemporary and are in many people's arsenal who are unwilling to part with them ala' the Garrett Ace 250. I consider that group to be in the 85 percent range for many average detector users.
Which brings us to 4 1/2 years ago when Minelab had no mid-range VDI-TID unit. They did their homework, surveyed the market, and pounced. Just as when the Explorer was released the U.S. manufacturer's got caught with their panties down around their ankles. Is/was it Minelab's responsibility to watch out for American jobs or the U.S. manufacturer's responsibility? Minelab has two PhD level physicist's designing detectors, and the U.S. manufacturer's have what? By White's own admission they have been working on the new V3 for 5(five) years, let me repeat that, 60 months! Just like there are "dog years", in "electronics development years" the V3 was started in the Ice Age! Much of Minelab's success is due to U.S. manufacturer's failure to execute! The V3 is the White's answer to the Explorer, but five years later. And for certain there would be no V3 if Minelab had not pushed White's to compete. If you purchase a V3 and like it, some of the thanks is due to Minelab for pushing White's.
In the 4 1/2 years this forum has had over 25,000 posts and the FAQ viewed more than 15,000 times. No other single model series has had this kind of traffic on Findmall with the exception of the Explorers. Not the MXT forum which is a much older detector, or even the White's general forum. This speaks to the popularity of the X-Terras as the preeminent mid-range VDI-TID detector and to the dedication of the forum participants in providing outstanding support to fellow detectors users. With it's performance, feature set, & flexibility I believe they meet the 90th percentile better than any other mid-range unit on the market. And challenge even much higher priced detectors(Ace 250itis
).So come on U.S. manufacturer's! If you're not thinking or worried about the X-Terra X305 you should be! There's a giant pool of Ace 250 users out there and right now the X305 is the obvious upgrade choice. Are you going to let Minelab continue to kick highly mineralized Ozzy sand in your face or produce something credible to compete?
HH
BarnacleBill
So to sum up, once you decide to move past entry level, the Xterra seems to be the only REAL choice out there in my mind!
) it's knocked the Ace off the top of the market as far as it's value for money goes. The only thing that I hated about the Ace, is it's obnoxiously loud tones that overloaded your eardrums, to the point that I found myself glazing over and missing targets.
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