Tesoro coil questions

[StBarbara]

I would like to learn about the carbon fiber coils available with Tesoro MDs. Is their primary benefit that they are lightweight? Are there other benefits?

Also, when changing coils (that are compatible with the Tesoro MD), is there a calibration step needed, or are the coils plug-and-play?
Thanks!

 

[MarkCZ]

Welcome to the Forum!

Not sure about the carbon fiber coils, that's the first I've heard of them?

On the Tesoro detectors that have a manual ground balance the coils are plug and play.

Mark

 

[StBarbara]

Thanks for your reply, MarkCZ. The carbon coils are mentioned in the Tesoro catalog and on a few of the product pages, such as http://www.tesoro.com/product/detectors/vaquero/ .

Glad to know that the coils are plug-and-play. I'm considering total weight and balance before choosing one of the Tesoro models. I'm convinced that I want one of the Tesoro MDs, but trying to configure just which MD+coils will be best for my circumstance and hunting interests...

 

[Hombre]

I would like to learn about the carbon fiber coils available with Tesoro MDs. Is their primary benefit that they are lightweight? Are there other benefits?

Also, when changing coils (that are compatible with the Tesoro MD), is there a calibration step needed, or are the coils plug-and-play?
Thanks!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'calibration', I'll take a guess and say that a "manually ground ballanced" detector is what you are referring to. For instance, my main use Tesoro Outlaw came as a 3 coil package, this possible because it has a manual ground balance control as does the Vaquero, Tejon, older model Tiger Shark etc. So these Tesoro manual ground balanced detectors are "plug and play" as you stated.

 

[MarkCZ]

I would like to learn about the carbon fiber coils available with Tesoro MDs. Is their primary benefit that they are lightweight? Are there other benefits?

Also, when changing coils (that are compatible with the Tesoro MD), is there a calibration step needed, or are the coils plug-and-play?
Thanks!

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'calibration', I'll take a guess and say that a "manually ground ballanced" detector is what you are referring to. For instance, my main use Tesoro Outlaw came as a 3 coil package, this possible because it has a manual ground balance control as does the Vaquero, Tejon, older model Tiger Shark etc. So these Tesoro manual ground balanced detectors are "plug and play" as you stated.

From time to time it's came up on the forum that if you change coils on a Tesoro your supposed to send the detector and the coil to the factory and have the coil "Tuned" or the new pair "Calibrated" and many thought that you were supposed to do that with any and all models. Over time that message finely got narrowed down to being only the models that have their coils hard wired need to be "calibrated" when the coils are changed. These are the ones that do not have a way to manually ground balance them.

Mark

 

[StBarbara]

Thanks, Hombre and MarkCZ,
The reason I asked about calibrating coils is because I've been reading through the forums and saw references to having new coils installed and tuned by the manufacturer or a professional service vendor. But then I also saw posts where people talk about swapping coils in the field... Now I understand the "manual ground balance" feature so it's making more sense.
Learning!

 

[amberjack]

also depends on your dirt too is its black loamy and not any harsh minerals in it a non GB machine is fine to swap coils on and if you have angry dirt you are going to want a manual GB anyway so really its not a big deal changing coils.
so really it is about the dirt you are hunting it for the most part that would dictate a lot of detecting choices.

AJ

 

[jld66]

i think what is meant that like a compadre with the 8 inch coil and one with the small 5.75 inch (i think) are sold as separate machines. you would need to calibrate the 8 inch coil one if you want to put the 5.75 inch one on it and vice versa.

 

[StBarbara]

i think what is meant that like a compadre with the 8 inch coil and one with the small 5.75 inch (i think) are sold as separate machines. you would need to calibrate the 8 inch coil one if you want to put the 5.75 inch one on it and vice versa.

... because the Compadre does not have a manual ground balance knob ... correct?

 

[Hombre]

i think what is meant that like a compadre with the 8 inch coil and one with the small 5.75 inch (i think) are sold as separate machines. you would need to calibrate the 8 inch coil one if you want to put the 5.75 inch one on it and vice versa.

... because the Compadre does not have a manual ground balance knob ... correct?

The Compdre coils 8" or 5.75" are hardwired, they do not have coil interchangeability, plus they do not have manual ground balance.

The internal ground balance pot is factory set to a piece of ferrite. If you want to change coils, get an Outlaw, Vaquero or Tejon, these have a manual ground balance......

 

[jld66]

yes. i think it is best to have a manual ground balance machine anyhow. not only for changing coils. i use a vaquero and sometimes from spot to spot i do have to adjust it a bit to be on. where as a fixed GB it would be off. if it makes a big difference, i dont know. i just use the stock coil on it. was planing on getting another one sometime. but, the stock one seems to do very good. compared to the machines a few people i hunt with have, it is well better. they use an ace 350 and a bounty hunter 505 with the bigger coil on it.

 

[Monte]

From time to time it's came up on the forum that if you change coils on a Tesoro your supposed to send the detector and the coil to the factory and have the coil "Tuned" or the new pair "Calibrated" and many thought that you were supposed to do that with any and all models.

The issue comes up when people make a search coil change on a factory preset Ground Balance Tesoro model, and they have issues with performance, especially with noisier operation from falsing. The cause for that is a Ground Balance setting that is not functional for the detector & coil, or actually all coils the owner has to use with that detector.

Over time that message finely got narrowed down to being only the models that have their coils hard wired need to be "calibrated" when the coils are changed. These are the ones that do not have a way to manually ground balance them.

Mark

Usually folks can't change a detector with a hardwired coil, but you are correct in that the Compadres are hardwired, but also have a preset GB, so if they are 'off' or out-of-calibration, or if a coil should be changed, they fall in the same category as all the other models that have a factory preset GB. If anyone has two or more search coils and uses them on a factory preset GB Tesoro, there is usually a very good likelihood that they might need their detector and coils checked out to 'calibrate' them, so to speak, by checking all the coil in use and determine an internal GB setting that will function with all of those coils.

There could be three search coils, for example, and perhaps the stock coil seems to have a working GB setting, but one accessory coil might be a little too negative and/or another coil might result in a too positive GB setting. What is done is checking all the coil on the specific detector model to make sure one preset GB adjustment will allow all of the coils to work. Of course the tough part is that ground mineral conditions might vary and that could change the results.

If someone uses a model that has a manual Ground Balance that functions in both the All Metal and motion-based Discriminate modes, then no 'calibration' is necessary because the operator can adjust the GB for each specific coil at any given site and, if set right, have peak performance. That's another reason I prefer to own and use a manually Ground Balanced Tesoro model.

Monte

 

[MarkCZ]

From time to time it's came up on the forum that if you change coils on a Tesoro your supposed to send the detector and the coil to the factory and have the coil "Tuned" or the new pair "Calibrated" and many thought that you were supposed to do that with any and all models.

The issue comes up when people make a search coil change on a factory preset Ground Balance Tesoro model, and they have issues with performance, especially with noisier operation from falsing. The cause for that is a Ground Balance setting that is not functional for the detector & coil, or actually all coils the owner has to use with that detector.

Over time that message finely got narrowed down to being only the models that have their coils hard wired need to be "calibrated" when the coils are changed. These are the ones that do not have a way to manually ground balance them.

Mark

Usually folks can't change a detector with a hardwired coil, but you are correct in that the Compadres are hardwired, but also have a preset GB, so if they are 'off' or out-of-calibration, or if a coil should be changed, they fall in the same category as all the other models that have a factory preset GB. If anyone has two or more search coils and uses them on a factory preset GB Tesoro, there is usually a very good likelihood that they might need their detector and coils checked out to 'calibrate' them, so to speak, by checking all the coil in use and determine an internal GB setting that will function with all of those coils.

There could be three search coils, for example, and perhaps the stock coil seems to have a working GB setting, but one accessory coil might be a little too negative and/or another coil might result in a too positive GB setting. What is done is checking all the coil on the specific detector model to make sure one preset GB adjustment will allow all of the coils to work. Of course the tough part is that ground mineral conditions might vary and that could change the results.

If someone uses a model that has a manual Ground Balance that functions in both the All Metal and motion-based Discriminate modes, then no 'calibration' is necessary because the operator can adjust the GB for each specific coil at any given site and, if set right, have peak performance. That's another reason I prefer to own and use a manually Ground Balanced Tesoro model.

Monte

I did say on only the models that don't have a manual ground balance

Another thing that adds to the confusion is early on when I started following the Tesoro forum threads were started up referencing swapping coils on models like the Tejon, or the Vaquero and a good number of posters replied, "yea, but you really need to send the detector back to the company to have the detector/coil tuned for best performance"
Not True! (to a point)
I sent my Tejon in for service to have the finger toggle replaced and the unit tested. When they got it I got a call from Rusty in the service department to inform me of the cost and what all they found out. When he called me he said he had my detector in his office (area) and the coil was in another area being tuned! during that friendly chat Rusty told me that on models like the Tejon the coils are not tuned to the detector and in fact to tune the coil they didn't even need the detector. He said that from time to time a coil can get out of spec, but that's a separate test done on just the coil and Not a calibration done to them as a set. When they tuned my coil they actually took it apart, tuned it, and poured in new resin, then the coil was sent back to Rusty and mounted on the detector for final testing.
So, some of the confusion came from people getting their detectors back from service and looking over the work order and list of repairs and when they read that the "coil was tuned" they just assumed it was a tuning/calibration of the coil and the detector. Then you toss in the models that have hardwired coils which are only supposed to be changed at the factory to preserve the warranty just made matters worse.

It took a couple of years to sort it all out and narrow the confusion down to what is really "tuning an out of spec coil" and "calibrating the detector to a different coil on the models with hardwired coil"
Mark

Mark

 

[Monte]

All makes and models can have a search coils that, itself, will not function well or at its peak if they are note 'tuned' or 'calibrated' correctly. As such they would be "out-of-spec" to function properly on models they were initially designed to work with. That is one thing that all manufacturers have to check should there be a problem with any of their detectors not functioning properly ... a bad, damaged, or out-of-spec search coil.

'Calibration' or 'tuning', as the term, has been used for decades with Tesoro or other manufacturers and their regard to their detectors that have a factory preset Ground Balance. Those who use detectors with a manually ground balanced adjustment have shown us that proper GB adjustment is called for if we swap search coils. We could leave a detector turned on with a stock coil and properly GB'ed to a specific spot of ground, and simply change the search coils while the detector is still on and properly adjusted for the first coil, then check the setting of the replacement search coil. Almost always, the set GB will not be 'proper' and we have to do some adjusting to rebalance to the different search coil.

So we learned long ago that as long as search coils are functioning 'within spec' they can work well on a detector that has a proper functional Ground Balance. If you take that same, properly designed and function search coil and mount it to a hardwired detector or one with an interchangeable connector that has an internal, preset GB trimmer, it needs to be adjusted to the ground for peak performance. If you used more than one proper-working coil on that detector, the unit needs to be 'calibrated' so that the preset GB is adjusted to a point that all the search coils will work. That means some will end up with a somewhat more positive or even slightly negative GB in order for all of the coils to function, but that's important to do for the 'package' or detector and coils to be 'functional'.

In the case of the Téjon you sent in for service, along with checking out the detector and circuitry, they would, or should, also check the search coil (or coils) to make sure they are working "within spec." In your case, Rusty said the one coil was in need of service to bring it up to spec, and then all would be well. But that was different from sending a detector and coils in to be "calibrated" in the use of the terms associated with Tesoro and other preset models. That reference relates to Ground Balance settings.

Monte