Yes, I know I can get a little repetitious, but I try to keep things 'simple' in the big picture. And '
simple' is what I post about quite often, and harp on in my seminars or working with any metal detecting hobbyist ... to keep it 'simple' yet be as efficient as you can.
Too often people make the mistakes of using a search coil that is too large, sweeping a search coil too quickly, and not overlapping their search coil sweeps. In addition they use too much Discrimination, and fail to investigate those 'iffy' or questionable target responses. Sometimes they don't Ground Balance properly, or really do not understand the effects GB can have on the overall performance of the detector. Worst of all, they lack or loose patience and that is also a shame because that also leads to not showing the interest to really learn.
So, for all those who are ready and want to learn more, they need to read through a lot of the forum posts to get to the heart of the education that lies therein, and when folks learn how to improve their success afield, they need to make a post as you did, because it is great to share the positive things we learn..
tabman said:
I couldn't decide where to go this morning, so I ended up going to a location that I've hit super hard and many times earlier this year to see if I missed anything. I mean I've been over this site with different detectors and coils from all directions numerous times.
There is one site, my all-time favorite ghost town, where I have used almost every detector I have ever owned or borrowed, or had for some prototype evaluation work ... and I have been working that same old town since May of '69.
You'd think that in over 45½ years of very avid search and ample good-target recoveries it would be pretty much "cleaned out." Well, I guess the best term to describe it, for at least the past 10 to 12 years is
very thinned-out, but it's still not 'clean.' It just takes more time and patience and the effort to use the best equipment, best settings, and best search technique to try for
just one more. It is a site like mine, or the one you chose, that really helps us learn more and/or confirm our confidence in what we have learned in the past to make sure we're still doing things right.
tabman said:
Here's the set-up with the modded Cibola/Sharpshooter coil: ground balanced a little to the negative, a very slight hum on the threshold, full sensitivity, and I had the discrimination set to where a nail would just barely discriminates out.
GB a little negative ... Good move with most Tesoro's.
A
slight Threshold audio hum? ... Spot-on.
Full Sensitivity!!! ... Yes, that is what I always do, at least to start, and I post that quite often and just about a week ago on one of the Findmall Forums I got called or questioned on using Full Sensitivity in a trashy site or where I might only be going after shallower targets. Tough, because that's my game plan. I use the most Sensitivity I can, then reduce it if I need to in order to deal with any EMI, or work close to metal fences and structures, and I will [size=small](as needed)[/size] reduce it a little if I get into really dense trash, but I have my regular starting point .... as high as I can set it.
Discrimination set to just barely reject an iron nail? ... That's the highest Discrimination setting I ever use, and at times I will drop it down to Zero or whatever the models minimum Disc. setting is. I like to find small, thin gold jewelry, and there are a lot of other very low reading targets I do not want to reject, but the main reason is because I want to do all I can to eliminate 'good target masking.'
So the settings you are using are exactly what I explain in countess forum posts, regularly, or describe and demonstrate in seminars and any group presentation as I demonstrate the challenges of using too much Discrimination .. and that starts by being higher than barely rejecting iron nails, such as up into all Iron rejection or Foil rejection..
tabman said:
This is somewhat lower than my usual discrimination setting where I normally would have it set to just barely discriminate out a Gatorade foil cap.
I've seen where you and a couple of others refer to setting the Discrimination to reject a Gatorade Foil Cap and never could figure why such a high rejection level. That really baffled me because you frequently post ALL of your recoveries, including coins, jewelry, and a plate of all manner of trash. Since you're willing to remove trash, it would make better sense to use a lower Disc. setting [size=small](as you are now doing to just barely reject the Iron nails)[/size] because you'll still recover trash and get it out of the way [size=small](which reduces masking to find a nearby good target)[/size] and you'll still find things you would have otherwise [size=small](obviously)[/size] been leaving behind.
tabman said:
I didn't find much today, but I learned a lot about masking and discrimination.
Learning .... that's exactly what all of us, myself included, should devote ourselves to do whenever we handle any detector. I have two things on my agenda.:
1.. To learn something new or refresh my memory of things I have learned in the past.
2.. Have fun and to what I need to do to find something of interest.
The harder I work on #1, the more satisfied and successful I will be at #2.
tabman said:
Every time that I got a repeatable audio signal I dug it up to see what's there without first checking it with the 'all metal mode' first.
Good move! I do that a lot of the time myself as it is much easier when using a slower-sweep/quick-response detector to isolate the target w/o using the All Metal pinpoint function. Also, I have several detectors in my ready arsenal, and only three of them do NOT have a visual display. Those are my old Compass Coin Hustler and 99B T/R's, and my Tesoro Bandido II µMAX. My MXT All-Pro, MX5 and XLT all have a display that shows both TID and a VDI numeric read-out but they are almost all used in the same method.
That is, I rely on my settings, then recover any good or iffy audio response WITHOUT referring to any of the visual TID or VDI display information. That's why I tell people I most often use the "
Beep-DIG!" approach to successful metal detecting. Visual display is simply a tool and doesn't need to used or relied on. There are times for it, but TID and VDI read-outs are almost useless in highly trashy sites, so I ignore them and go by the audio response, and that is governed by using a very low Discrimination setting and proper search techniques.
It's a sometimes misunderstood term, much like "Turn-on-and-Go." Back about 30+ years ago we had detectors with a manual Ground Balance or in internally Preset Ground Balance, and we called the 'preset' models that didn't require operator adjustment a "Turn-on-and-Go" model.. Well, that has changed because some models have an automated Ground Balance and Auto-Tracking and the operator doesn't have to manually do anything, so even though not 'preset,' they are still "Turn-on-and-Go" models.
"Beep-Dig" is simply a philosophical approach to metal detecting taking the 'simple' approach of search an area, and if you hear a 'beep' you recover [size=small]('Dig')[/size] the target. It doesn't mean the detector used lacks any visual display info, it only suggests you are not using the visual response, only relying on the audible 'beep' to tell you when to take action. So even when using my MXT All-Pro or an MX5, XLT, Omega or some other model with TID/VDI information, I am not required to use it and just listen to the audio and make my recovery decisions accordingly.
I was glad to see the improved and successful performance you experienced at your well-hunted site.
tabman said:
In the past I've passed on some targets that sounded loud and shallow when checking it in the 'all metal mode', especially if I'm looking for silver coins.
Long, long ago I made the same errors at times by relying on the All Metal audio response, or TID when it came out over thirty years ago. That when I learned how to use better settings and hunt wiser and gain more success afield.
tabman said:
Today I found a bunch of wheat pennies, a war nickel, Jefferson nickels, copper pennies, zinc pennies, pull tabs, pieces of foil, a necklace chain, a token, can slaw etc.
Isn't it exciting to find good stuff where once you thought it was mostly gone?
tabman said:
Now here's the kicker, apparently I passed over a bunch of these targets using a higher discrimination setting in the past. They must have been masked by the iron at the site. Today every time that I dug and retrieved a target, I would go over the hole in the 'all metal mode' afterwards and low and behold I got a bunch of loud audio responses from iron in the hole. Sometimes when I went to dig a target I would first retrieve a nail and knowing that it was suppose to be discriminated I would start looking for what wasn't suppose to be discriminated out.
Yep, and it adds an element of 'fun' back into the sport, too.
tabman said:
I'm just amazed at how many more targets that I found by lowering the discrimination.
Now that you've learned that advantage and a key to success, I think future searches can now be more rewarding. Of course that comes with other things, like using a slower and more methodical sweep, and being very patient when hunting densely little sites.
tabman said:
I wish I would have thought to thumbed up the discrimination to normal foil setting to see if I would still get a audio signal. Next time!
I wouldn't be doing that. For one, it wastes time when you could be recovering the target and moving on to find the next one. Another reason is that when checking a target with a Tesoro, and other detectors, if you're increasing or decreasing the Discrimination level while sweeping the search coil, you can sometimes get a 'rejected' response when the target shouldn't be. If the Disc. was increased, then the search coil swept over the target, that would be different, but you can play with "thumbing the Disc." on several sample targets and learn that, at times, the results will work against you.
I think it is best to 'simply' use a determined approach to search a site. Set the controls where you want them, keep the Discrimination as low as you can tolerate, then recover all good and iffy beeps. Don't waste time trying to tease a target into maybe being rejected or play with the visual display to try and make it respond better ...... just listen and recover. Pretty simple.
tabman said:
There must be a ton of good targets out there being mask by iron.
I am not sure of the weight category, but I do know target masking can be really frustrating, and iron is our #1 enemy. I know we can't reject all iron targets because some do not respond as iron and can produce an up-scale TID or VDI, or need an increased Discrimination level setting do to their size and man-made shape [size=small](which enhances the conductivity)[/size]. That's why I use, and practically preach the use of, a low Discrimination level to just barely reject an iron nail, then hunt away. If it isn't really nasty, I'll use minimum Disc. or Zero Disc., if the detector provides that setting.
I noted you were using the NEL Sharpshooter, 9.5" x 5.5" search coil, was that correct? To up the odds in your favor [size=small](and my bias based on experience shows here)[/size] is to use a smaller-size search coil such as a 5¾" or 7" Concentric. Those are findable for the 'regular' Tesoro's but not the H.O.T. series, so re-hunt that same site with an Outlaw or Bandido II µMAX or Silver Sabre µMAX, etc. with a 5¾" Concentric, just barely rejecting an iron nail, and be slow-and-methodical in your search coil sweep and coverage. You'll likely do a little better because that bigger-size coil, even though Double-D, will still add to target masking in dense iron trash.
I currently have a 7" Concentric on my Bandido II µMAX and it works fine, but I need a smaller size coil for nastier conditions and hope to get a 5¾" Concentric mounted up before winter ends and we swing-into-spring weather and detecting season.
I know we're into winter but I hope you'll have some opportunities to get back out and hunt that location some more in the coming weeks. No doubt you'll have more success, even if it is just a little at a time.
Monte
