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target blanking at the old school site

Digger

Constitutional Patriot
Staff member
Sunday was my brother's birthday. I won't tell you how old he is, but will say he is my OLDER brother. We have been studying some of the earliest inhabited sites in this part of the Country, and coming up with a few goodies at several of them. He has "taken the honors" the last two hunts with an 1843 half dime and a 1835 dime. So, I figured it was about my turn.
Anyway, the place we hunted Sunday was the site of an old school house that dated 1870 - 1910. We figured there should have been a few coins lost over that period of time, considering the school was also used for church services and summer picnics. After gaining permission to hunt the site, and walking about 1/2 mile through some rough terrain, we found the corn field where the school once stood. We found lots of pieces of brick, glass and scattered iron. There was so much iron in the ground that I had to walk over the hill to find a spot that was "clean enough" to ground balance. Running in all metal was virtually impossible. So, I chose to run with the X-70 in Pattern 1. After about 3 hours of hunting, and nothing to show for it, I noticed a copper rivot down on the ground, about the size of the eraser from a pencil. Wondering what it would ID, I passed my 7.5 kHz coil over it. No Beep. Nada! Initially, I thought maybe my X-70 had died. But, when I picked up the rivot and waved it under the coil, it did what it was suppose to do. I tossed the rivot back down on the ground and swept over it again. And again, nothing. My brother had elected to leave his X-50 in the car, and chose to use his XLPro with the 5.3 coil. He waved the 5.3 over the small piece of copper and BEEP! BEEP! Loud and clear. Although I can usually hear the blanking of threshold tone when the detector passes over a target that has been notched out, I honestly couldn't hear any blanking around this copper rivot. Bill picked up the rivot and threw a quarter down on the ground. I swept the X-70 over it and got a short beep. If I raised the coil any higher than 3 inches off of the ground, I would not hit on the quarter. Again, his 5.3 coil hit it hard, consistently and at much greater depths. This has to be some of the worst masking (and target blanking) that I have ever encountered. The rivot and the quarter were apparently being masked by all the iron crap in the ground. I know for a fact that I can notch out a pull tab, lay it on top of a dime, and still get a signal from dime with my X-70. But for some reason, and I suspect it was the abundance of iron targets literally every few inches, that made the X-70 totally ignore the copper rivot I came across Sunday. And, I have to believe that my brother was able to separate the copper from the trash with his smaller 5.3 coil. Probably explains why he dug several old shotgun shell casings and I only found one. And now that I think about it, it might explain why he has "taken the honors" the past couple outings. :rage:
I have been anxious for a smaller coil to become available on the X-Terra for some of my park hunting. But Sunday's experience suggests that it may be just as important for hunting some of these remote building sites as well. Anybody else had this experience??? HH Randy
 
the area you are covering better target width wise. If it has a lot of mineralization in the ground the DD will handle it better. Plus you can snake that DD around the trash more then you can that 9" coil. Anyway just a thought. I don't like the 9" 7.5KHz coil as it is too big for the areas I hunt and the trash I hunt in. It is so dry down here what we call gumbo dirt is like concrete and like digging in rocks.:rage::stars: I can't wait till we get some rain. :please: Later Jerry aka Tinfoil.
 
Randy,

When I first got the X-70 from ML this spring I immediately took it to a site I found last fall that is a cornfield where an old homesite from the late 1800's once stood. There is no evidence that a home was there now except for all the iron in the ground. I experienced exactly what you just posted, nothing but abrupt cutoff beeps and sputters from the detector trying to handle all the iron. Using a slow sweep helped some, but I was not impressed with the recovery speed at all. I did not give up tho! Using the DD coil with the 70 set to 2 tones and tracking on, YES tracking ON! the 70 becomes a different machine in those conditions.

You do not have to hunt in all metal with this setup. I accept all non-ferrous and notch one or two iron segments out depending on the amount of low tones I am being bombarded with. Adjusting the threshold and volume a little differently than you would at a clean site helps also. My preference is threshold -3 or -4 and volume around 25 on the detector with the headphones set at a comfortable level so the iron tones don't wear my ears out. That of course is subjective and up to the individuals taste.

The next time you make the long walk to that site please give it a try.

Tom
 
that my biggest gripe with the X-Terra's is brought about by target masking. The #1 cause for target masking, in my opinion, is use of a too-large search coil. The #2 reason is the use of too much discrimination.

With the X-Terra 70 we are able to 'fine-tune' the discriminate setting a bit better, and my Pattern 1 is always set to reject only -8 and -6. Still, I have encountered too many issues of target masking and the only thing we do not have control over is the selection of a SMALLER-than-stock coil.

I took April 20th thru May 1st to vacation in Eastern Oregon and also head to Utah & Nevada ghost towns. On this year's trip I decided to work with the X-Terra 70 the most, for as long as I could, to evaluate its every feature and get the most out of it.

Overall I am still pleased with what it can do, especially when compared with other obvious "multi-purpose" contenders such as the MXT. But in the dense, iron-littered RR ghost towns I had my toughest challenges and, while I made some good finds with the X-Terra 70, most of my favored finds were made using the other two detectors I toted along. My modified IDX Pro w/4" coil, and my Shadow X5.

Now, this year I also decided to work more with the 5x10 DD coil on my X5 than with my favorite smaller coils, the 7" & 5", so I left the 5x10 DD mounted on the Shadow X5 and found that I had better overall performance in the very trashy ghost towns than I did with the 9" round concentric coils on the X-Terra 70 (regardless of the frequency).

From my experiences with the Troy Custom 5x10 DD coil I determined that I am going to have to get the elliptical DD for the X-Terra 70 and give it a good workout afield. But I have also determined that: #1.. the 7.5 kHz frequency is working the best overall for me, and #2.. regardless of how well the X-Terra DD coil might work, WE NEED A SMALLER-SIZE COIL!!!

Last weekend a couple of friends and I ventured over to a couple of older Central Oregon towns with ample history and hunted in trashier areas. While the X-Terra 70 has a quicker response and recovery time than the likes of the XLT or XL Pro, if everything else is even, I was still being bested on occasion in the iron trash by an XLT running my custom program AND a smaller coil. I was limited to the 9" concentric and the target masking was just too much of a challenge.

Oh, I still did relatively well, and I stuck with the X-Terra 70 all day long, but on a few occasions I was about ready to grab my Shadow X5 and smaller coil. Next time I probably will, although "next time" I would prefer to reach those types of sites with a smaller X-Terra coil mounted. :D

Let's hope we have this void filled soon!!!

Monte
 
I had planned on getting a smaller coil (when they become available) instead of getting the higher frequency elliptical. In testing the 9-inch concentric 7.5 against the 18.75, I find that I do not achieve any appreciable difference in performance. The higher frequency does seem to be more sensitive to small targets. But I find that I have to lower the sensitivity setting of the detector to maintain stability in sound and function. Makes them kind of come out the same in the end! I recognize that the width of the elliptical DD would not allow all those targets to "slip in" from the side. And the DD would undoubtedly handle the mineralization better. But the ten inch length would still cover a lot of ground and have a lot of targets under it's footprint at any one time. I have hopes that the smaller coil is 7.5 kHz so that ALL X-Terra owners can have the option of owning one. I really don't care if it is round, elliptical, concentric or DD. And, even if it does come out in a higher (or lower) frequency, I know I am going to try one. I just need a smaller footprint on my X-Terras! And, if it is like the smaller coils on most of my other detectors, it will be one that gets a lot of use.

I will try turning down the threshold, as you suggested. That is something I didn't do. I like running with a barely audible threshold as it allows me to not only hear the good stuff. But also allows me to hear the trash blanking. In the case of the site I hunted Sunday, there was so much blanking that it acted like a silent search detector! I did try running with the tracking on and honestly couldn't determine any improvement. Like I said, the ground was so permiated with iron that it was virtually impossible to maintain any recognizable GB. I may be wrong, but this place seemed to be so nasty that I don't think much can be done with the size (and design) of the coil I was using.

We had about an inch of rain since Sunday and temps in the humid 90's. The corn planted in that field has jumped up another 6 inches and is about knee high. So, it looks like this site will have to wait until after harvest. That should allow enough time to have all the coils I need!

Thanks again for the tips. I appreciate your posts. HH
Randy
 
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments saying:

#1.. the 7.5 kHz frequency is working the best overall for me, and #2.. regardless of how well the X-Terra DD coil might work, WE NEED A SMALLER-SIZE COIL!!!

Hope Minelab is listening and grants our wish. HH Randy
 
I understand and agree that a DD coil should handle the mineralization better. And, if there was a smaller DD coil available, I would have one in a heart beat. But I think a 10-inch elliptical would have separation problems too. The mineralization problem at this site was compounded by the concentration of the nasty stuff. There were literally nails (and other iron objects) every couple inches. So not only was I fighting the irratic mineralization, I was dealing with nearly impossible separation issues. Guess I should have taken in my 350 Snooper!
Although it is too late to get back into this site until the corn is picked this fall, I will carry several pieces of equipment back in there the next time I hunt it and find out exactly what it takes to conquer this beast! Even if I don't find any coins, slaying this two-headed dragon has become a matter of pride! LOL Thanks for your comments. HH Randy
 
G/B it in the beach mode, run X70 in beach mode and if you have been running the sen. high to the max you can turn the sen. down about 5 points. You are now in a expanded G/B range as I agree now with some of the other guys about that and you are running less sen.. As far as the threshold goes I would just play around with that and see what works best. When you are hunting the bad iron that is about all you can do. The DD will have a smaller footprint as it is only 5"s wide vice 9" wide concentric. Hunting the brass and buttons is where the 18.75KHz comes is handy. The shadow X5 is a 18KHz machine and that is why it is so great on buttons and brass along with being great in everything else. Bet you can't tell if Monte and I are partial to the Shadow X5 can you. If I could only have one it would be the Shadow X5. Later bud and I hope that helps some. Hunting in the Iron you have different rules and you really have to play around until you find what works. You got triple trouble since you are in the Iron, the Mineralization, and no small coil. :rage: Sort of makes you this way trying to fugue it out. :crazy: Jerry aka Tinfoil
 
I should have proofed my post a bit better. On the threshold setting I meant 3 or 4 not -3 or -4. I agree on hearing a barely audible threshold. :)

I am with you 100% on the smaller coil. I don't care if its a DD or concentric but please make it for the stock 7.5 Khz. For now, the Elliptic DD gets the nod for the trashy spots.

HH Tom
 
n/t
 
I don't have a Xterra but I had a similar experience when I first got my Explorer. I laid a dime on top of the ground and the Exp wouldn't pick it up and the 6000 Di Pro I had would, after careful examination I learned that there was a large iron plate under the ground that was causing the Exp to ignore it. I have kept the Exp and sold the 6000 but I have to say in some instances the 6000 will do better. The Exp has great separation but there are circumstances that will favor the XL-Pro/6000 series or others. This is another case where separation and "see thru", motion units have their own limitations. I have a now infamous test that I have posed to Forums for units to be tested and most if not all motion units fail. The best results will be obtained by using a small coil and even then motion units will not beat an old 100 kHz unit.
 
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