A
Anonymous
Guest
Just so I'm sure that I have the correct understanding of this term, does this occur when the coil picks up 2 targets at the same time and "averages" their values both in tone and target placement on the screen?
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A
Anonymous
Guest
Essentially yes, in most cases. It depends on a lot of factors to what degree 2 targets will get averaged by the detector. The closer in proximity they are, the more likely they'll get averaged. Also the direction you sweep your coil over them will depend on the averaging. For example, you can have a silver dime and a pulltab lying side-by-side in the ground... sweep one way you may get a pulltab hit, turn around a little and it may read higher - like a zinc penny - turn a little more and you may get a dime hit out of it.
If you have 2 objects touching each other, overlapping or sandwiched, the averaged signal will be pretty solid and unchanged. For example, a silver dime and a nickel stuck to each other usually reads around zinc penny regardless of which direction you sweep over them.
Hope this answers your question... HH, Mike.
If you have 2 objects touching each other, overlapping or sandwiched, the averaged signal will be pretty solid and unchanged. For example, a silver dime and a nickel stuck to each other usually reads around zinc penny regardless of which direction you sweep over them.
Hope this answers your question... HH, Mike.
A
Anonymous
Guest
probably more info than I wanted. Especially since I was going to use the LEARN function and disc out annoying Zn cents. I guess I better rethink that one in light of your reply. Thanks again.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hey Fred,
Never use the learn function to disc out anything close to where good finds will show up; and with target averaging that means almost the entire top half of the screen except extreme left. If you want jewelery and Nickels than it means almost the entire screen. Yes, the Explorer does offer that option but it is a bell and whistle and pretty much worthless for general purpose coin shooting.
Chris
Never use the learn function to disc out anything close to where good finds will show up; and with target averaging that means almost the entire top half of the screen except extreme left. If you want jewelery and Nickels than it means almost the entire screen. Yes, the Explorer does offer that option but it is a bell and whistle and pretty much worthless for general purpose coin shooting.
Chris
A
Anonymous
Guest
Please explain in more detail, maby give some exmples
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hey Mikel,
The ID on the explorer is quite accurate if: the target is fairly close to the coil, there is only one target under the coil, and the explorer is running stable; (sensitivity not too high and no sources of electrical interference nearby). If you run a target under the coil under these conditions the crosshairs on the screen should repeat to the same location quite well. Now you can either learn in and accept good targets from a darkened screen or learn in and discriminate out bad targets from a blank screen.
Unfortunately under normal hunting conditions you are unlikely to meet any one of these criteria, much less all three. Deep targets, targets mixed with other targets, and electrical noise all cause the ID to jump around. If it happens to jump into a disc'ed out area you won't hear it, or will only hear a squeal or chirp.
A couple of weeks ago someone posted about using the coin preset program and running the coil over a known good target and only getting a signal a small percentage of the time. The reason is the target ID is bouncing between accepted and discriminated areas.
Although it is overwhelming at first, it is better to run with very little discrimination and use your BEDU (Between Ears Discrimination Unit, aka brain).
Hope this helps
The ID on the explorer is quite accurate if: the target is fairly close to the coil, there is only one target under the coil, and the explorer is running stable; (sensitivity not too high and no sources of electrical interference nearby). If you run a target under the coil under these conditions the crosshairs on the screen should repeat to the same location quite well. Now you can either learn in and accept good targets from a darkened screen or learn in and discriminate out bad targets from a blank screen.
Unfortunately under normal hunting conditions you are unlikely to meet any one of these criteria, much less all three. Deep targets, targets mixed with other targets, and electrical noise all cause the ID to jump around. If it happens to jump into a disc'ed out area you won't hear it, or will only hear a squeal or chirp.
A couple of weeks ago someone posted about using the coin preset program and running the coil over a known good target and only getting a signal a small percentage of the time. The reason is the target ID is bouncing between accepted and discriminated areas.
Although it is overwhelming at first, it is better to run with very little discrimination and use your BEDU (Between Ears Discrimination Unit, aka brain).
Hope this helps
A
Anonymous
Guest
Mikel;
I have a post on the explorer forum that is a good example of what chris is talking about.
I started with the coin mask and "learned out"(reject) several types of pull tabs and then "learned back in"(accept) nickels.
you can see the result in that I would have missed a great bracelet if it had not been in plain sight. The detector would have rejected it totally.
One of the other guys found that a $10 gold piece comes out in the same spot as zinc pennies. so that if zinkers are out so is the gold piece.
Hope this is helpful to you.
Rick (TN)
I have a post on the explorer forum that is a good example of what chris is talking about.
I started with the coin mask and "learned out"(reject) several types of pull tabs and then "learned back in"(accept) nickels.
you can see the result in that I would have missed a great bracelet if it had not been in plain sight. The detector would have rejected it totally.
One of the other guys found that a $10 gold piece comes out in the same spot as zinc pennies. so that if zinkers are out so is the gold piece.
Hope this is helpful to you.
Rick (TN)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Thanks Ronin,
That is the most obvious reason. Even if you are not missing targets because of target averaging or noise you can still loose them in perfect conditions because some good targets have the same electrical characteristics as disc'ed out junk. Gold rings are particularily known for this. Depending on the alloy and size they can show up most anywhere. With minimal discrimination you will still hear all these signals, whether you have the patience to dig the hundreds of junk signals to get the few good is up to the individual.
That is the most obvious reason. Even if you are not missing targets because of target averaging or noise you can still loose them in perfect conditions because some good targets have the same electrical characteristics as disc'ed out junk. Gold rings are particularily known for this. Depending on the alloy and size they can show up most anywhere. With minimal discrimination you will still hear all these signals, whether you have the patience to dig the hundreds of junk signals to get the few good is up to the individual.
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Anonymous
Guest
[No message]
A
Anonymous
Guest
When you use "Learn" and "Edit" you have to realize that it is only to ASSIST you in getting good targets while ignoring specific trash items. These functions are NOT a "cure-all"
Before I go on, also note that I mainly hunt in IM -10 to -12. I only switch to a custom screen when I want to "cherry pick" in a relatively clean area. You can have a coin with trash in the hole with it, with a custom screen you will most likely miss it because you passed over the hit as trash. My normal hunting setup is IM -10 set up to toggle to digital for when I'm trying to snipe a nickel.
You will NEVER be able to accept ALL of what you want while at the same time rejecting ALL of what you don't want.... it's not gonna happen so just forget about it.
When I set up a custom screen, I use the MEDIUM cursor for what I want to accept. Then I will go to the edit screen and use the SMALL cursor to reject the trash I don't want. Then I check to make sure I didn't knock out any good stuff. If I did, I edit it back in again using the SMALL cursor. Also remember that in "Learn" you first select the "accept"(or reject) symbol and THEN sweep your sample targets while in "Edit" you sweep your samples first and THEN push "accept/reject". It's important NOT to get these procedures confused.
Usually, I will set up a learned (accepted) program befor I hit the field. Once I'm out there, I will then use the edit function to "fine-tune" it once I pick up trash I want to edit out that's hitting in my "good" areas. REMEMBER...don't edit out the trash without verifying that your good stuff's still hitting.
I carry a film canister of test coins with me for this purpose. They are UNCLEANED examples of the following
1. an IH and A Wheatie
2. a Cu/Ni IH (aka "Fatty")
3. A Sheild, "V", and Buffalo Nickel
4. a "War" Nickel
5. a Barber, Merc, and Silver Rosie Dime
6. a Barber, S.L., and Washington Quarter
7. a Walker Half and a Morgan Dollar.
They're pretty handy to have out in the field when checking a program.
also bear in mind that in order to get the most out of these 2 functions, the process is repetitious, you can't just set it up one time and expect it to work everywhere, you have to "tweak" it as you go. I have a coin program saved in a slot that I built usuing learn mode. I will load it then edit it as required for each specific site that I hunt.
anyway, hope this helps
HH -SgtSki
Before I go on, also note that I mainly hunt in IM -10 to -12. I only switch to a custom screen when I want to "cherry pick" in a relatively clean area. You can have a coin with trash in the hole with it, with a custom screen you will most likely miss it because you passed over the hit as trash. My normal hunting setup is IM -10 set up to toggle to digital for when I'm trying to snipe a nickel.
You will NEVER be able to accept ALL of what you want while at the same time rejecting ALL of what you don't want.... it's not gonna happen so just forget about it.
When I set up a custom screen, I use the MEDIUM cursor for what I want to accept. Then I will go to the edit screen and use the SMALL cursor to reject the trash I don't want. Then I check to make sure I didn't knock out any good stuff. If I did, I edit it back in again using the SMALL cursor. Also remember that in "Learn" you first select the "accept"(or reject) symbol and THEN sweep your sample targets while in "Edit" you sweep your samples first and THEN push "accept/reject". It's important NOT to get these procedures confused.
Usually, I will set up a learned (accepted) program befor I hit the field. Once I'm out there, I will then use the edit function to "fine-tune" it once I pick up trash I want to edit out that's hitting in my "good" areas. REMEMBER...don't edit out the trash without verifying that your good stuff's still hitting.
I carry a film canister of test coins with me for this purpose. They are UNCLEANED examples of the following
1. an IH and A Wheatie
2. a Cu/Ni IH (aka "Fatty")
3. A Sheild, "V", and Buffalo Nickel
4. a "War" Nickel
5. a Barber, Merc, and Silver Rosie Dime
6. a Barber, S.L., and Washington Quarter
7. a Walker Half and a Morgan Dollar.
They're pretty handy to have out in the field when checking a program.
also bear in mind that in order to get the most out of these 2 functions, the process is repetitious, you can't just set it up one time and expect it to work everywhere, you have to "tweak" it as you go. I have a coin program saved in a slot that I built usuing learn mode. I will load it then edit it as required for each specific site that I hunt.
anyway, hope this helps
HH -SgtSki