Tackling irony sites or cellar holes......TheMarshall

[TheMarshall]

It was 48 out here in MA yesterday , So I took the ET out to a cellar -hole and old home site. I was using a modified coin program in Co. auto sens. + 3. Now this is only the third time out with the ET, which is allot different then my EX2. So I have allots to learn .But what I did notice is cut nails ( iron) come in it a high tone like silver at
43,42....Ferrous just bounces between 8 to 12 .
I hear people say they don't dig iron ,but I don't find that to be the case. Has anyone else noticed this.
I have to say it does go deep, I found a old St Christopher metal at 12" and it was the size of a dime. It also seems that tone ID is the only way to go.....If its high dig it( coin hunting) Numbers just bounce to much over 5".
Dennis 2

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Hello Dennis

Can you tell us exactly what your coin pattern was for the cellar hole search?

The E-trac will correctly signal some iron with a high tone if you hunt in CONDUCTIVITY....just as it would in the old Explorer.

That is the fallacy of hunting by tones in conductive audio and using poorly designed coin programs, when on an 'irony' site.

YOU SHOULD BE IN FERROUS audio mode, and your 'pattern

 

[TheMarshall]

Apologies to Dennis for my post was meant to be tagged onto your original, but web difficulties meant I had to create a new post.

Best wishes from the UK

 

[Dennis 2]

Marshall this is the settings that I used: Coin Screen
Cursor (For Cut Iron nails ) was close to the middle on the screen with a high tone just below silver
Gain 24 , Response Normal , Deep on , fast Off ,TD High ,round Diff. Tone Multi ,Sound Conduct , Limits 30 , Variability 29 , Th Pitch 15.

, I was in Conduct, Which I never used with the EX2 because like you said , iron would sound like a Good target and around cellar-holes a pain in the ass. I'm going to use FERROUS like you suggested, and just listen to the tones. Also going to use a more opened pattern like Tony Hunts to stop most the nulling. I'll try the two tone and your other suggestion.
We have a ft. Of snow comming today ,so it looks it will be awhile before I get out again. Thank you for your help.
Dennis

 

[Gary in Daytona]

I'm going to try your settings the next time I find I'm into a lot of iron on an old homesite. Your program is a radical departure from what most use for coin hunting, so it's going to be interesting to see how it works for relics and homesites. One question - do you set your sensitivity to "noisy high" like Low&Slow's method or just where the ET quiets down and allows you to hunt without a lot of chatter?

 

[Brett]

...what I did notice is cut nails ( iron) come in it a high tone like silver at 43,42....Ferrous just bounces between 8 to 12.

*******************************************************

The E-trac will correctly signal some iron with a high tone if you hunt in CONDUCTIVITY....just as it would in the old Explorer.

That is the fallacy of hunting by tones in conductive audio and using poorly designed coin programs, when on an 'irony' site.

YOU SHOULD BE IN FERROUS audio mode, and your 'pattern

 

[TheMarshall]

...what I did notice is cut nails ( iron) come in it a high tone like silver at 43,42....Ferrous just bounces between 8 to 12.

*******************************************************

The E-trac will correctly signal some iron with a high tone if you hunt in CONDUCTIVITY....just as it would in the old Explorer.

That is the fallacy (IMO) of hunting by tones in conductive audio and using poorly designed coin programs, when on an 'irony' site.

YOU SHOULD BE IN FERROUS audio mode, and your 'pattern

 

[TheMarshall]

Greetings Gary.

The choice of audio is a very personal thing, rather than one of right or wrong.

My poor brain is intolerant of any excessively over burden of 'noise', which I define as insignificant, random audio.

Auto Sens virtually reduces that to zero, but if I push for the improved depth capabilities of Manual Sens then the penalty is noise.

I kill off as much as I can of ferrous origin, by iron masking obvious iron. (All between Fe35 and 27)

I then limit the actual loudness of signals reported. I only need a gentle hint of a target's presence, and the Minelab designers have given us the choice of audio limits and gain to control that.

QUOTE:- One question - do you set your sensitivity to "noisy high" like Low&Slow's method or just where the ET quiets down and allows you to hunt without a lot of chatter?

For reasons explained, I go for the quiet life. A relaxed brain is in my opinion, more receptive and tolerant than one which is bombarded by irrelevant sound.

Medically, it is also a better practice. It is not generally appreciated that metal detectorists enduring excessive noise, can suffer progressive hearing problems through accumulated effects.

Low and Slows suggested method obviously works for him, and I respect the concept, but I can't imagine why it should be any more likely to succeed than conventional methods.

Perhaps he will come on the forum and share his thoughts.........................Thanks..........The Marshall





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[Dennis 2]

What I remember ,,that should be pretty close

 

[Gary in Daytona]

especially over difficult ground, but what concerns me about auto is the difference I have personally found between auto and manual responses on deep and weak targets. For my .02, there is a marked difference between the response in auto (light, vague, IDs bounce around, sometimes these barely catch your attention) and manual (loud, clear, ID locks better, no question something is there). That means if one wants to hunt more quietly but still get the depth of manual sensitivity, then it would seem you logically run manual up to the point where the ET gets chattery over the ground you're hunting, and then back it down a bit or live with the chatter but slow down and listen carefully.
I'm going to continue to experiment with both of these settings to see if there are areas where running it "flat out" is really an advantage by retesting weak or barely audible targets in a more "normal' relic mode to see if they drop out completely.

 

[Brett]

TheMarshall,

I'm very sorry for making you type so much, but the upside is that I now understand your method a lot better. Thanks!

One thing I forgot about was when the targets that are normally FE12-in-air will have a higher FE number when they are deep in the ground, more so when the ground has higher mineralization... which it would in an iron contaminated home site or cellar hole. When the ground is not that contaminated, I've found targets don't really have a higher FE number at depth. I would not hesitate to dig a deep target that has FE numbers higher than 12 though, but would think twice if the numbers were 27 or higher.

So with that in mind, your two tone method provides in a way some audible depth discrimination. The higher tone will be more surface oriented, and the lower will be deep stuff. Nulling will be any large iron signals, or potentially some REALLY deep stuff. I also agree that when working a really tough site, such as the topic of this discussion, that you really should be digging more tricky signals... because they are mostly going to be tricky ones.

Personally, I'm glancing over at the target depth meter just about every time it's a tone that not foil. And if it's registering deep, I'll open up my quick mask which is just FE27, and I'll see what the cursor is doing. If it pegs the bottom like you said, it's probably iron. If it's dancing a little higher it could be a deep valid target, and worth a dig. You really never know what you are going to get... it could be a silver dime or quarter and a nickel in the same hole at depth and give a reading somewhere in the middle of the two... if you know the good stuff is deep, dig it!

I have found that opening up the FE side of the default coins program does in fact help coins at depth come in more loud and clear.

It's all good stuff to be thinking about when out in the field, it gets very easy to just turn on the detector and go see what you can find in the default Coins mode. If you know what you are looking for though, you can be smarter than that. Thanks TheMarshall.


Gary, interesting info on Auto vs. Manual. I'll have to give this a try.

 

[tab-nabit]

That is one nice pic.