Tab Photos here we go

[holey dollar]

Tab
Thanks for all the info, posted a message went into Hyper Space never to be seen again, will try to clean up the Patent Tag for a spot on date off it, take a look at the photos, all items found in the same area as the Patent tag, First is part of a convict shackle, damaged hit by something hard ??? police Guards would of replaced the damaged part, the shell we talked about, centerfire round not fired, crimped at the end of the shell, a bit weird but must be a centerfire shot shell, all the fired shells from this convict depot are the same, prefer to keep this one, if i find one more round not fired i will open one up and see, third item is the firing pin out of a centerfire bolt, funny found a lot of shells fired that have two firing pin hits on them, so they must of replaced the faulty firing pin,

Thanks again
Dave/Holey Dollar

 

[tabdog]

Wow Dave,

You are very observant.

Few people would have ID'ed that firing pin.

You even discovered a little episode where

thay had to repair an old rifle.

It looks kind of like a 30-30 Winchester round.

Winchesters in 30-30 were used well over 100

years ago I think. That's one of tha guns that

defeated Custer at his last stand. Tha US

would not use tha Winchester. They had single

shot 45-70's. Too slow. He lost his scalp.

HH,

Tabdog

 

[dahut]

I encountered a fired Henry cartridge casing recently, with two evenly spaced firing pin strikes on the rim. I don't know if these rifles had a dual pin arrangement, or if it was a misfire that had been rechambered and tried again. I think it was the latter, and the bullet was missing - so I reckon they got it towrk the secodn time!
But it was cool.
I wonder if the cartridge shown by Holey Dollar(Dave) isn't something like an old Martini casing, since it's rimmed and would have been a common find in Australia's past. It was a blank or training round, that is certain.

As for the .30 WCF, or ".30-30" as we know it, that round came into being in the 1890's. It first appeared for use in 1895.
No way it could have been used by Custer, if that is what you meant, tabdog(Dave)**.
It was the first commercial round to use smokeless powder and was, indeed, never adopted by the US Military. However, like so many cartridges, it was an offshoot of military experiments into the, then new, smokeless propellents.

** We sure got alot of Dave's around here!

 

[kylonghunter]

The crimped round looks to me to be a blank. I could be wrong but don't think so...Happy MD'ing

 

[dahut]

- - although the military doesn't always call them blanks. They use fancy terms like "non-projectile," "training" or "grenade launcher" rounds.
Since it is rimmed and from a land that was originally a British Commonwealth holding, it's likely one of theirs. Thats why I guessed Martini.

 

[tabdog]

I didn't actually mean tha round was what tha Indians had,

it was tha lever action, repeating rifles thay used. Actually

they had several different rounds chambered for Winchester

and others. That, and tha over welming numbers defeated

Custer. If tha calvery had Winchesters and more sholdiers,

tha name Custer could have been much less well known.

There is a good article. I can not remember where I found it.

Tha Custer site has been protected by tha government

sence it happened almost.

Tha site has always had thick high grass covering rolling hills.

Tha grass burned a couple of years ago and archiologist were

able to metal detect tha site for tha first time.

They found almost all tha shell cassings. They also found

bones and a shoe with tha feet bones inside.

The sholdiers were mutulated so that if tha Indians met them

in tha next next life, they wouldn't have any arms or legs with

which to do battle.

They were able to identify all tha shooters by tha gun

signature left on each cassing. Both Indian and

calvery.

They were also able to plot their positions from shooting

position to shooting position.

There by giving an accounting of tha battle itself.

What they found, supports the reports given by the Indians.

The US never believed the Indian's accounts of what happened,

but it was appearantly accurate.

That is how I know tha Indians had lever action rifels. I just can't

remember tha names of all tha different rounds.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

 

[dahut]

- - as they were the most common repeating rifle of the day. In 1873 the Winchester falling block lever action came out, but I reckon it would have not been available in large numbers to the Indians at Minneconjou Ford in 1876. It was still very new, then.

The Spencer and Henry rifles were more likely, although there seems to be debate on just how many they actually had.

 

[BarberBill]

Went through the Custer battlefield/monument this summer. Besides having the numbers, the Indian's tactics were far superior to the army's in that battle. AND they fought like they had everything to lose which was true.
BB

 

[tabdog]

They did not have enough for very many braves.

But they had enough to handle Custer's soldiers.

They had different brands and different bores.

They had been accumulated by Indians trading

with traders.

But It was not a mass attack.

The Indians took advantage of the natural terrain.

They had cover in tha tall grass and were able to

get in range to use their shorter range rifles.

The terrain worked for the Indians.

They were not dummies. Just out numbered by a

more technological and industrial society.

I wish I could find that article.

I think it is a great historical discovery.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

 

[tabdog]

n/t

 

[Cliff KS]

A range fire burned across the battlefield in 1983.

During 1984 and 1985, metal detectorists helped archaeologists locate artifacts on the battle field.

Shell casings could usually be identified as to which side probably fired them, based on make and caliber. Skirmish lines could be determined and some shooters could be followed across the battlefield based on the firing pin marks and marks on the casings found at different locations, and seem to support indications of a rapid collapse of Custer's troops.

You can read all about it in "Archaeology, History, and Custer's Last Battle" by Richard Allan Fox, Jr., published by the University of Oklahoma Press. I think there is the original book as well as an updated, expanded version with even more data gleaned from additional archeaology conducted since the fire.

 

[tabdog]

n/t

 

[slowmotion]

The casing with the crimped end could be bird shot or snake shot. Rim fire casing with two firing pin marks and dome end with " H" in center are Henry's 44-40. Had 28 g. of powder. They came out in the 1860's.Lever action and 15 to 20 shots. The Indians like them and so did the civilians. I find them on the trails and old camp sites. About equal between 44-40 and Colt 45.
I think!

 

[dahut]

The casing with the crimped end could be bird shot or snake shot.
The cartridge in the photo is from Australia, along with Holey Dollar. The whole Custer ramble was a divergence.

Rim fire casing with two firing pin marks and dome end with " H" in center are Henry's 44-40. Had 28 g. of powder. They came out in the 1860's. Lever action and 15 to 20 shots. The Indians like them and so did the civilians. I find them on the trails and old camp sites. About equal between 44-40 and Colt 45.
I think!

Found one or two a couple weeks ago here in SC.