So I picked up an s12 recently. I was very impressed by the weight, but so far it hasn't met any of my expectations. I know a lot of people like them, so I'm wondering if there is something wrong with mine. It can barely air test a us quarter to 10". Actual field experience has been dismal. In the sand, I've only had TWO targets with it that were more than one scoop deep (and most of the one scoop targets weren't even a full scoop). A signal that would normally (w/ the 10") be a zinc penny at about 6-8" ends up being a zinc penny at 1-2" with the s12. This should not be, that penny would have blown my ears off with the 10". I wasn't expecting anything extraordinary depth wise, I feel like I dig plenty deep with the 10" tornado, but I was hoping for at least the same amount. I was expecting better coverage, seeing as it is a much bigger coil. Coverage is less than the 10" tornado. Not that it is something I depend on, but I have noticed that signals to the periphery are only picked up about 2-3" off the edge of the coil, w/ the 10" it is much more. I can't even walk near the chrome bumper on my pickup with the 10", but the s12 can get about 16-18" from it before signalling. So all in all, I feel like I'm running a lighter coil with no depth and a little less coverage. Please don't read this wrong, I'm not bashing this coil. I know a lot of people run it, and love it. I just need confirmation from others that something is definitely wrong with it and I should send it in for warranty.
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Sunray Intruder S-12 problems/questions
- Thread starter OBX Franz
- Start date
Critterhunter
New member
Refer to this thread link where I've been running it through it's paces here and there.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1807089,1820650#msg-1820650
On the second page of that thread I compared it's air depths to that of other coils on a clad dime. All running full sensitivity in a low EMI environment. If you watch that then I'd say your 10" on a quarter is probably about right, but keep in mind these BBS machines need a ground load to achieve maximum performance. They can and do get better depth with a ground load in some situations in both soils and sands, where as the reverse is usually true for other machines.
I have experienced this myself. Many machines I owned would air test at outstanding depths but didn't get near that depth in the ground, while with certain coils on my GT I've dug coins deeper than the air tests show. These BBS units handle the ground in a very unique way. Also could be certain coils need more of a ground load than others where air tests may do worse for some than others.
As for the loudness of the S-12, I don't use my 10" Tornado on land anymore to contrast them both on loudness where it's fresh in my memory to contrast them, but on land versus the 12x10 and Ultimate for sure they are much louder and with a more "crisp" bark to my ears than the S-12, but that doesn't necessarily mean less depth, as the 12x10/Ultimate are known for a louder report by nature than other coils. Also true on the FBS machines from what I've read/been told. Some might prefer the more "basey" or less "treble like" response of the S-12 for their particular hearing, but I like the sharper/crisper report that at least my ears hear with the 12x10/Ultimate.
The S-12 I'm using is a loaner from somebody who wanted me to contrast it to my 10" Tornado, 12x10, and also the 13" Ultimate I was loaned. I will be picking up a 13" Ultimate to use in wide open areas when I want to move faster. It's different than any "round" coil like it such as the 10" Tornado, enough so that I want one in my line up. I like the Ultimate for big open areas- IE: The grid faster thing, even though the 12x10 is a nice improvement over stock in that respect too.
Used to own a 15x12 but wouldn't put one back in my line up just because it'd be too much like replicating my 12x10, and the 12x10 for me is deeper in my soils. Far as the S-12 goes, I won't be getting one for land use, but I may pick up one if I can get it for a good used priced to see how much drag it has in the water, where I found the SEFs too much drag for me to hunt long hours doing that. I'm still contrasting this loaner S-12 to my 10" Tornado, but if not for anything other than more coverage in the water it may find a place on my water shaft. Still sorting that out for myself.
A lot in terms of coil performance versus max size has to due with your minerals. I've heard some say the 15x12 is deeper than the stock 10" coil on ring/coin sized targets in their soils, but for me it simply wasn't the case. The 12x10 has a rather tight and less "fuzzy" footprint due to it's unique shape, like the 15x12. For that reason I'm not even sure a round 12" coil or the 13" Ultimate is as deep in my soil. Might be they just suck up too much ground stew and wash out the target at depth in my soil/sands. The Ultimate I suspect might be as deep as the 12x10 but for sure the 12x10 will run at higher sensitivity levels around EMI or heavy minerals without being as fussy about it. One reason why I think the Ultimate might be at least as deep as the 12x10 for me is that it doesn't seem like a conventional round DD coil. It's actual shape is 12.5" long by 13" wide, and it's traits seem very unlike any round DD I ever used.
Far as weight goes, the S-12, 12x10, and Ultimate...All 3 coils are right around the same weight in various with and without coil cover configurations and are all light, especially if you ditch the coil cover for the 12x10 which is pretty hefty. I use spray on bed liner on mine. The 12x10/Ultimate to me feel a bit lighter after a long hunt, and I can only assume it's due to the center mounting point for these two coils. Regardless, for it's size the S-12 is one very light coil for sure and not feeling heavy after a long hunt either for it's 12.5" round size.
Give that S-12 a fair shot. It has a legendary reputation. Been around far longer than many other coils, although Sun Ray just canned the Sovereign/Excalibur version. Here's a tip- With my 15x12 I often found it gave more depth, or at least better tone and ID at depth, if I ran the sensitivity much lower than max stable. I suspect because running it too hot in my soil would wash out targets at depth due to soaking up too much ground matrix. Try sticking a coin at fringe depth with max stable sensitivity in the sand and then backing off your sensitivity as you wiggle over it and see if the ID and tone gets stronger/easier to achieve. Many times if say 9PM was stable with the 15x12, I'd find that around 2 or 3PM seemed best for IDing/tone at depth.
Rl48off, boy you didn't keep the S-12 very long. Do you feel you gave it a fair enough amount of time to come to any solid conclusions? Just the same in my mineralized soils I prefer the 12x10 for various reasons. Didn't you just pick up a 12x10? If so, how you liking it?
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1807089,1820650#msg-1820650
On the second page of that thread I compared it's air depths to that of other coils on a clad dime. All running full sensitivity in a low EMI environment. If you watch that then I'd say your 10" on a quarter is probably about right, but keep in mind these BBS machines need a ground load to achieve maximum performance. They can and do get better depth with a ground load in some situations in both soils and sands, where as the reverse is usually true for other machines.
I have experienced this myself. Many machines I owned would air test at outstanding depths but didn't get near that depth in the ground, while with certain coils on my GT I've dug coins deeper than the air tests show. These BBS units handle the ground in a very unique way. Also could be certain coils need more of a ground load than others where air tests may do worse for some than others.
As for the loudness of the S-12, I don't use my 10" Tornado on land anymore to contrast them both on loudness where it's fresh in my memory to contrast them, but on land versus the 12x10 and Ultimate for sure they are much louder and with a more "crisp" bark to my ears than the S-12, but that doesn't necessarily mean less depth, as the 12x10/Ultimate are known for a louder report by nature than other coils. Also true on the FBS machines from what I've read/been told. Some might prefer the more "basey" or less "treble like" response of the S-12 for their particular hearing, but I like the sharper/crisper report that at least my ears hear with the 12x10/Ultimate.
The S-12 I'm using is a loaner from somebody who wanted me to contrast it to my 10" Tornado, 12x10, and also the 13" Ultimate I was loaned. I will be picking up a 13" Ultimate to use in wide open areas when I want to move faster. It's different than any "round" coil like it such as the 10" Tornado, enough so that I want one in my line up. I like the Ultimate for big open areas- IE: The grid faster thing, even though the 12x10 is a nice improvement over stock in that respect too.
Used to own a 15x12 but wouldn't put one back in my line up just because it'd be too much like replicating my 12x10, and the 12x10 for me is deeper in my soils. Far as the S-12 goes, I won't be getting one for land use, but I may pick up one if I can get it for a good used priced to see how much drag it has in the water, where I found the SEFs too much drag for me to hunt long hours doing that. I'm still contrasting this loaner S-12 to my 10" Tornado, but if not for anything other than more coverage in the water it may find a place on my water shaft. Still sorting that out for myself.
A lot in terms of coil performance versus max size has to due with your minerals. I've heard some say the 15x12 is deeper than the stock 10" coil on ring/coin sized targets in their soils, but for me it simply wasn't the case. The 12x10 has a rather tight and less "fuzzy" footprint due to it's unique shape, like the 15x12. For that reason I'm not even sure a round 12" coil or the 13" Ultimate is as deep in my soil. Might be they just suck up too much ground stew and wash out the target at depth in my soil/sands. The Ultimate I suspect might be as deep as the 12x10 but for sure the 12x10 will run at higher sensitivity levels around EMI or heavy minerals without being as fussy about it. One reason why I think the Ultimate might be at least as deep as the 12x10 for me is that it doesn't seem like a conventional round DD coil. It's actual shape is 12.5" long by 13" wide, and it's traits seem very unlike any round DD I ever used.
Far as weight goes, the S-12, 12x10, and Ultimate...All 3 coils are right around the same weight in various with and without coil cover configurations and are all light, especially if you ditch the coil cover for the 12x10 which is pretty hefty. I use spray on bed liner on mine. The 12x10/Ultimate to me feel a bit lighter after a long hunt, and I can only assume it's due to the center mounting point for these two coils. Regardless, for it's size the S-12 is one very light coil for sure and not feeling heavy after a long hunt either for it's 12.5" round size.
Give that S-12 a fair shot. It has a legendary reputation. Been around far longer than many other coils, although Sun Ray just canned the Sovereign/Excalibur version. Here's a tip- With my 15x12 I often found it gave more depth, or at least better tone and ID at depth, if I ran the sensitivity much lower than max stable. I suspect because running it too hot in my soil would wash out targets at depth due to soaking up too much ground matrix. Try sticking a coin at fringe depth with max stable sensitivity in the sand and then backing off your sensitivity as you wiggle over it and see if the ID and tone gets stronger/easier to achieve. Many times if say 9PM was stable with the 15x12, I'd find that around 2 or 3PM seemed best for IDing/tone at depth.
Rl48off, boy you didn't keep the S-12 very long. Do you feel you gave it a fair enough amount of time to come to any solid conclusions? Just the same in my mineralized soils I prefer the 12x10 for various reasons. Didn't you just pick up a 12x10? If so, how you liking it?
deepdiger60
New member
I been running my S12 for 3 years now with no problems i find it equal to the stock 10" on beaches wet sand or water 10 inches is the norm on coins and rings it outperforms the WOT and SEF coils by a mile , IMO great coil . Like someone said find someone else with one and compare notes on beach .
GL Jim
GL Jim
Critter I gave it a full day at the beach and I couldn't do anything with it, nulled , falsed, wasnn't deep at all ! etc. So I sent it back.
I have the Sef 10x12 which is the best I feel here in FL. and I also have the Ultimate that I now use to cover ground when It' s slim picking. Now at first I didn't like the 13"Ultimate but I found a way to work with it. It's very sensitive in the summer and I have to run it at 2 or 3 O'clock. Now with the colder weather on the beach I can run it at 1130 and 12 O'clock without any problems, maybe that's why the coil is white to reflect heat, I can control it much better in the cold then the heat. It does a good job.
As for the S-12 I felt very bad to send it back to Ralph because he is such a great person to do business with and I will continue to do business with him.
I have a good friend who I met several months ago and he found that the S-12 gave him the exact problem that I had. He also sent it back. He and I have the Sovereign GT newer version
Ron L
I have the Sef 10x12 which is the best I feel here in FL. and I also have the Ultimate that I now use to cover ground when It' s slim picking. Now at first I didn't like the 13"Ultimate but I found a way to work with it. It's very sensitive in the summer and I have to run it at 2 or 3 O'clock. Now with the colder weather on the beach I can run it at 1130 and 12 O'clock without any problems, maybe that's why the coil is white to reflect heat, I can control it much better in the cold then the heat. It does a good job.
As for the S-12 I felt very bad to send it back to Ralph because he is such a great person to do business with and I will continue to do business with him.
I have a good friend who I met several months ago and he found that the S-12 gave him the exact problem that I had. He also sent it back. He and I have the Sovereign GT newer version
Ron L
I also felt the S-12 was a great coil and did well with it when I had used it and did much better than the WOT for me in park hunting. What is interesting is when I used the S-12 it was on the older Sovereigns and not the GT and like it was said that on the GT there seem to be a problem. One thing for me is when I got the GT I notice it was more sensitive and seem to false on iron a little more than any of the older Sovereigns.
Since I got the GT I been only using the stock coil and my 8 inch coinsearch plus a S-8 of Sun Rays as I been using Explorers and a E-Trac where I have the bigger coils.
Rick
Since I got the GT I been only using the stock coil and my 8 inch coinsearch plus a S-8 of Sun Rays as I been using Explorers and a E-Trac where I have the bigger coils.
Rick
Neil
Well-known member
Ive got an S12 that works great on my GT, havent tried it out on my Elite yet. I know there are some variations in coil qualitys and I have no idea why, different suppliers, the way a coil is put together? Im no electronics guy but know from what I use.
The first 12X10 SEF I had for the Sov was super sensitive and I could not get it to shut up and run quiet on wet sand at the ocean. It also had a shorter cable like alot of the early ones had. I called Kellyco on this and they told me the company that makes the SEFs was addressing the cable length issue by making the cables longer(for chestmounting), but they couldnt answer the part about it not working in the wet sand at the ocean. Now up in the dry sand and at the freshwater beaches I hunt it worked flawlessly. Anyways to sum up, I sold off that coil after awhile and have since bought another one, new with the longer cable and it works flawlessly in the wet sand as well as everywhere else.
I will send Ralph(sunray)an email and ask him to address this S12/GT issue that a few seem to have, on this forum. Not sure if he will but it cant hurt to try.
The first 12X10 SEF I had for the Sov was super sensitive and I could not get it to shut up and run quiet on wet sand at the ocean. It also had a shorter cable like alot of the early ones had. I called Kellyco on this and they told me the company that makes the SEFs was addressing the cable length issue by making the cables longer(for chestmounting), but they couldnt answer the part about it not working in the wet sand at the ocean. Now up in the dry sand and at the freshwater beaches I hunt it worked flawlessly. Anyways to sum up, I sold off that coil after awhile and have since bought another one, new with the longer cable and it works flawlessly in the wet sand as well as everywhere else.
I will send Ralph(sunray)an email and ask him to address this S12/GT issue that a few seem to have, on this forum. Not sure if he will but it cant hurt to try.
Hmm.. I am running a gt so maybe that has something to do with it; but neil and deepdigger (just going by your sig at the bottom dd) run one on a gt with no probs. I put my tornado back on last night and it is night and day. I went over the same area I did with the s12 yesterday, and pulled the targets beneath the one scoop range, some 3 scoops. Fortunately none were valuable, so I didn't miss anything the first time; but I will keep the tornado on the gt from now on. The tornado can't get closer than 3' (yes, 36") from my bumper w/o screaming, double the distance of the s12. When I eventually do try the s12 again, I am going to try what critter advised and back off the sensitivity gradually and see if that helps any.
Critterhunter
New member
Neil, I think what he meant was he's going to try lowering sensitivity on a fringe depth target from what is max stable and see if that improves depth or at least tone/ID at depth, as per what I often found was true for the 15x12 in my soil. It was just too big for my mineralization and so running it as hot as possible sucked up too much ground stew, washing out targets at depth for me by "glare" of the ground signal maybe. I'm not even sure a round 12" or bigger DD will get the same depth as the 12x10 in my soil, due to seeing too much ground. It's not just the shape of the 12x10, but it also seems to have a rather tight and less fuzzy field than a round DD to me, so I suspect it rides on and sees less ground as it goes along. The 13" Ultimate to me doesn't seem to have the traits of typical round coils, so it's the only reason I suspect it might not be beyond the point of no return for my soil.
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
Frank I have a little Sunray 8, It seemed to do ok at the beach but airtested bad...Not sure why. Performance wise I would say it is close to the littler 800 coil of the excal, but with a bit more coverage.
GeorgeinSC
Well-known member
I have the S-12 and the Ultimate 13" coils for my GT. I have dug some deep coins at the beach with both coils. The ultimate seems to hit harder than the S-12 on coins that are getting down into the foot deep range. I have been trying to decide if I want to keep both coils or just select one and get rid of the other. Really don't find much difference in the two coils.
Neil
Well-known member
Ive never used the ultimate coil but if its 13" than its only 1/2" larger than the S12. I find theres not a whole lotta difference in coils unless your comparing, lets say the WOT to a small 8" coil, then theres a big difference. The SEF coils have a nice tight center line of detection, but the S12 and WOT are real close to it in that respect. They all also seem to have similiar sensitivity to smaller gold. The coinsearch isnt as sensitive as the others but all the sunrays and coiltek coils hit the same small gold as the stock minelab BBS and Tornado coils. So it really boils down to coverage, balance and stability. Weight is a little deceiving, more important I find is how the coil actually feels on the end of the rod.
If you dont need the money for another coil, having two the same size can come in handy for a variety of reasons including coil failure, multiple machines and so forth. Not having to hunt for another coil quickly if one fails is a nice luxury.
Looks like this storm is gonna do some coastal damage......
If you dont need the money for another coil, having two the same size can come in handy for a variety of reasons including coil failure, multiple machines and so forth. Not having to hunt for another coil quickly if one fails is a nice luxury.
Looks like this storm is gonna do some coastal damage......
RetiredVeteranTH
New member
I haven't read this entire thread yet but I think sometimes unless you get a reference from someone who has used every coil 60-70 hours each in the field on several different sites in different conditions that fit a specific detector i.e. Etrac, you end up with spectacular reports on depth etc that don't pan out immediatelt until you have done the same. I think many coils of similar size have similar depth. I haven't even had a chance to use all of my coils and I have 13 different ones between the Sovereign and the Etrac! I think most detectorists swear by the coil they are most comfortable with: that said you should at least get some decent depth on the S-12.
Retired Vet..It sounds like the problem is the S-12 Coil Not working proper on the later model Sovereign GT..If you read All the write-ups here that seems to be the problem.I have 4 coils for my Sovereign but usually stick with 2 that i use,,The 15" CoilTek (WOT) and the CoilTek Joey..I get Super Depth and No problems at all..I also read this same problem in another forum and they sent the coils back,,But again it was the newer GT that had the problem and it was No Depth....John..
It all depends on your hunting with the WOT. It is a good coil for some and not for others and for me and several others in my area it was not that great on the Sovereigns for us. Now i notice more that beach hunt like the WOT for the coverage and as far as depth the Sun Ray S-12 seems to have more depth than the WOT for us around here for our park and ball Field hunting.
Rick
Rick