I noticed that on one of the very latest detecctors to be recently introduced......it had "issues" with round iron ( steel bottle caps). They rang up with a coin sound and had produced a coin target VDI . Almost all of our "so called" discriminators have what i call defective ID performance. Why... in this day and age with our technology being so far advanced ......can I not buy a metal detector that will cleanly disc out a rusting bottlecap??? If your detector can't do this......do you really have a real discriminator ..... no..... you have a "kind of" discriminator. I can undertstand the difficulty of creating a discriminator that can seperate pulltabs from gold rings.... very tough, But come on guys it's 2016 build me a disc unit that will get rid of rotting bottle caps...until this derector shows up ...let's face it we don't really have a true discriminating metal detector. All manufacturers have let us down in this regard!!
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Still waitng for a detector company to produece a properly functiong discriminator!!!
- Thread starter Ivan
- Start date
I think the answer is don't use a double-d coil. When I started in 1971 there was no discrimination. After discrimination was developed I never dug a rusty bottle cap until I got a Minelab Sovereign. I couldn't believe how many rusty bottle caps it found. I can eliminate them some with the 3b mode on the T-2 but the double -d coil still finds them in other modes.
I should add that my F75 with the standard coil - a dd - on a steel crown cap - rusty or otherwise - will almost always give me an iron grunt if I "tickle" the target with the coil nose or slanted edge.
Also if your detector is easy to swap between all metal and discrim, the all metal signal will usually be larger in size than the discrim target return.
Also if your detector is easy to swap between all metal and discrim, the all metal signal will usually be larger in size than the discrim target return.
still looking 52
Well-known member
I'm thinking also that the coil is the difference maker, I run 11" DD coil on my f5 while my brother runs several non DD coils on his f75 and there has been numerous times I'd get the high tone quarter/ half dollar tone on my f5 and before digging the target ID ask him to check the target with his machine and he wouldn't even get a hit, sure enough when I dug the target it was a bottle cap.
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
A DD coil has many benefits but you found one of it's drawbacks. If you use a White's VX3 or V3i with a DD coil, you can tell instantly if you have a cap or coin by looking which frequency is dominate.
coinhunterseth
Member
Try an AT Pro in pro mode with no iron disc or with iron audio, no doubt if it will be a steel bottle cap. Never had a problem with them since I got one, and I've used only dd's with it.
There is a trick to any detector that's prone to get a conductive signal on rusty bottle caps : You simply momentarily speed up (and vary) the swing speed over the suspected bottle cap target. If it's a bottle cap, the audio will change with swing speed variations .
This was ESPECIALLY pronounced in the early days of motion discrimination: Like the Whites 6000d original, the 6db, etc.... All you had to do was speed up the swing speed: if it were a cap, it would begin to "break up". If it were a conductive target (coin, etc...) then the signal would improve.
This effect is much lessened in the era that followed, where swing speeds are now slowed way down. But the effect is still there (albeit much more subtle nowadays on today's machines).
The XLT for example (though now quite dated) had this phenomenon. And all you had to do was speed up the swing speed (and do NOT use their "bottle cap reject". Instead, do the swing speed trick).
This was ESPECIALLY pronounced in the early days of motion discrimination: Like the Whites 6000d original, the 6db, etc.... All you had to do was speed up the swing speed: if it were a cap, it would begin to "break up". If it were a conductive target (coin, etc...) then the signal would improve.
This effect is much lessened in the era that followed, where swing speeds are now slowed way down. But the effect is still there (albeit much more subtle nowadays on today's machines).
The XLT for example (though now quite dated) had this phenomenon. And all you had to do was speed up the swing speed (and do NOT use their "bottle cap reject". Instead, do the swing speed trick).
I was going to recommend he get a Minelab Sovereign as it has been the only detector I have used that hates the rusty bottle caps. The only time a few will fool me is if the ground is very dry as I get a weak signal on them, but enough to dig them as it could be a deeper coin. On Nickles verses the pull tabs and the beaver tails off the old round pull tabs I find very easy to tell the difference also with the Sun Ray DTI meter that uses the 180 numbers. The first year (1996) when I got it and learned to understand it I dug twice as many nickles than I did dimes, rusty bottle caps maybe 1 out of 20 holes dug as they sounded like a weak coin that was deeper. It could be our ground too in ND,SD and MN as that is the 3 states I hunt in. Something about the tones on the Sovereigns that I can hear the difference in even though I am very hard of hearing.
For me the ones I got more rusty bottle caps were the Fishers and even the Minelab Explorers that sounded like coins.
Rick
For me the ones I got more rusty bottle caps were the Fishers and even the Minelab Explorers that sounded like coins.
Rick
Grilled Scallops
New member
Discrimination on a detector has an upper limit. I'm not saying that limit has been reached. But by the very principles a metal detector works off, there exists only so much information that can be obtained from the target below. Pretend a person has been blind since birth. How would you describe the color red to them? You can't. They'll never perceive red, or any color for that matter. They just don't have the sense (vision) to do it. A metal detector only has one sense, and I think it's pretty darn good what we've been able to get working off of so little. There are just some things a detector will never be able to perceive about a target. Personally I'm very impressed with modern machines, and I'm not even an old timer that used the primitive ones.
Sounds like there are some good recommendations for remedies to your issue above. Try one!
Sounds like there are some good recommendations for remedies to your issue above. Try one!
bootyhoundpa
Well-known member
Might try backing down the sensetivity a little to see if that helps... with the excal im more apt to dig up a clean bottle cap than a rusty one..
Southwind
Well-known member
Getting a flu vaccination does not mean you're immune to all strains. But it is still a flu vaccination. I have never seen any detector manufacturer claim to be able to discriminate all trash with 100% accuracy. Actually I'd say it's a good thing they can't or you guys would have little left to find LOL. Bottle caps are like pull tabs. Pull tabs just happen to read like nickles on most detectors. You can discriminate them out, just like bottle caps, but you will also be missing some good stuff.
Dancer
Well-known member
Hey, how about those white screw bottle caps. Get my beep and dig every time ! I do agree on the AT Pro, pro zero mode, iron audio. Pretty darn accurate letting you know it's a rusty cap.
Now how about those gold , red or blue pull tabs? Trick me for a nickel or maybe ring every time.
Now how about those gold , red or blue pull tabs? Trick me for a nickel or maybe ring every time.
You are confusing "screw caps" with "bottle caps". The post here was about those steel, aka "crown" caps. Whereas the type you are speaking of is the aluminum screw caps. No way to knock those out, unless you intend to crank the disc. very high.
On the Explorer, those read a little more to the left on the left/right up/down axis. So technically they could be passed, without passing other sorts of mids and low conductors. However, all bets are off when they are bent up, chopped, etc...
There's a certain park in Stockton CA that got the nickname "wino cap park". Because it has thousands of those. But with the explorer, you can go in and pass all those (even the ones that read up near the penny range), w/o passing other similar coin signals. Because those wino caps hit distinctly @ a certain cross-hairs zone. However, you will, of course, be missing anything underneath them, that now becomes "masked". Doh!
On the Explorer, those read a little more to the left on the left/right up/down axis. So technically they could be passed, without passing other sorts of mids and low conductors. However, all bets are off when they are bent up, chopped, etc...
There's a certain park in Stockton CA that got the nickname "wino cap park". Because it has thousands of those. But with the explorer, you can go in and pass all those (even the ones that read up near the penny range), w/o passing other similar coin signals. Because those wino caps hit distinctly @ a certain cross-hairs zone. However, you will, of course, be missing anything underneath them, that now becomes "masked". Doh!
For areas littered with those I have found the AT Pro/ Gold works very good. Other than that I usually stick with machines that offer small concentrics (no larger than 8") They seem to work the best. I wish every company would offer a small size concentric coil for all their machines. Unfortunately companies seem to be going in the opposite direction…… Larger DD's and larger concentrics ( if they even offer one)