Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.

Sovereign

Frank(FL)

New member
I was looking a picking up at Sovereign GT. I still might even with Minelab killing off the detector at the end of Dec. The Sovereign is a well built detector that works very well and has a long outstanding track record without all the new bells and whistles that new detectors have. You don't need a GPS, and god only knows what they will add next. Why not a camera and video and why not have the detector link up with the Internet so you can post you finds, with in seconds. Why not add a cell phone capabilities to it also, so you won't miss any calls. I guess what I am tiring to say is keep it simple. They could add all that stuff to a detector and if you don't take the time to use and learn what it's telling you, none of it will help you find anything. It will only drive up the cost of the detector, but with the cell phone option you could call them and ask them for help. LOL


Just my take

Frank
 
Frank,the GT is a great metal detector,now might be the time to buy one.Good Luck Ron
 
Ron I have never used one, but I do have the Excalibur and love it. My understanding ids they are allot alike in many ways except for taken the Sovereign into the water. I any going to pick one up ,but I have to sell the wife on it first. LOL

Frank
 
Frank i see a few people are starting to panic already and they are selling there machines ? big mistake IMO someone said if they are selling the GT up to Dec.31st they have to honor the warranty up to 2015 which means plenty of parts if needed . The Excal and Sov GT are brother and sis . Jim :twodetecting:
 
Yep, and I'm sure they'll have parts for more than the next 3 years. They were just talking about the warranty. If they dished costumers with having no repair parts only 3 years out of buying the machine that would not look very good at all to any future customers. Besides, the Sovereign is a pretty reliable machine. Hardly ever hear of break downs from people.

You'll like the Sovereign if you like the Excal. Unless you've put better headphones on your Excal then expect the audio to be even better on the GT. It makes a BIG difference. Also, some say the Elite or GT are a bit deeper and more sensitive to smaller stuff than the Excal is, being that the Excal is said to be based on an older Sovereign model (or at least older Excals were, don't know about the latest ones).
 
That depth issue may be do more to the factory salt setting and tweaking ability between the two.

Dew
 
Dew, what do you mean by salt setting? Never heard anybody say that about the Excal. The BBS units (Sov/Excal) handle the ground signal very different than other machines. Some machines have a "salt mode" for the ground balance, but those are using conventional ground balance or tracking modes (I always read this was in a form of a filter) where the salt setting kicks the balance window into a different span of balancing. If there is a salt setting that's been done to the internal Sovereign electronics on an Excal that's the first time I've ever heard of it and I'd like to read up on what I've been missing here?
 
Finally, the word is out on the Sovereign, I also heard that the E-series is on on the chopping block!

There's a ton of money invested in the 3030, and due to the technology it's got to be a lot cheaper to manufacture, it's a simple circuit board with no switches or knobs and a cheap LCD screen that just plugs in. The Bill Of Materials on the 3030 can't be more the $300.00, the rest is profit!

The current Sovereign has a lot of what is called "Value Add" which translates into manufacturing cost, where you have to pay someone to manually assemble the unit then solder all the bits together, if you have ever opened one of these you know what I'm talking about.

The 3030 on the other hand is just a simple circuit board which plugs into the front panel, the secret sauce of course is in the software!

If your a fan of the Sov get one while you can, they are just getting to expensive to manufacture and it doesn't matter how good the machine is if the profit isn't there then it's got to go!
 
You are right about everything you said. I was in the USAF for 27 years and everything is going to chips and software control. That's one of the reasons I got the Sovereign. It still has allot of old knobs and pots in it. You will always be able to do more with the older technology. If you have a 10K pot that has 2 turns on it, you can set it up in any way you want to get the most out of the system. But if you replace the 10k pot with a software driven systems you only get to push the button as many time as the software guys sets it up for. So if it's set up to change 1k per push of the button, you only get ten settings for that adjustment. He could set it up for .5k (20 pushes) or .1k (100 pushes) They will most likely set it up for no more than 15 to 20. When they do that it cuts out allot of the fine turning you can do with the old knob and pot setup. A good example of this is when I go the Explore over 10 years ago. They did not give you enough settings for the threshold.. You would go from not hearing it, too it being too loud, with one push of the button. They fixed that when they came out with the SE or the explore II. They added smaller adjustments to the software. If you wear out the 10k pot you can replace it for almost nothing. If something goes bad on the newer cards they will just change the card and you get the big bill. Don't get me wrong, the software driven world has it place and if you are making allot of the same items it has some big advantages. Most boards are made by a machine and you don't have to train folks to troubleshoot broken items,(Pots, resistors ect) they just replace the card that's bad. But it many ways, it will never be as good as the older technology of the old pot and knob.

Frank
 
Frank, you've got a lot of wisdom there. So true. I don't want to come across as some old f*rt. I ain't that old. I grew up right at the edge of the digital revolution and I've been schooled in both worlds. Heck, at one time a few years back I even went to school for computers and self taught myself in about four languages, including machine language. Then I dropped off the face of the digital earth for a while, and now I'm playing catch up again in certain respects.

I'm going to preface the rest of this post by saying this- I ain't a digital hater. I love digital. I like digital. On certain days I love a mesmerizing digital computer screen and the extra ability to tweak a detector, so I'm not hating on it. Just different moods for different days.

But just the same, there is something to be said for more "analog" type controls or inputs (audio/visual). There is an old saying, that the more you overtake the plumbing the more easy it is to clog up the drain. What that means is that the more you remove the user from the raw audio and visual ID of a target, the more something is lost in translation. As an example, unless a digital machine converts the analog signal from the RX winding from the coil into digital, and then simply outputs that as it's direct analog to digital response in pure data, then something is lost.

The reality is that on many machines (nearly most these days IMO) take that analog to digital conversion, and before outputting it to the VDI or the audio, it's then run through tons of software to process and sanitize it into a more "user friendly" type of output. Think of it as fly-by-wire airplanes these days. No longer does the pilot feel the hydraulic resistance to the maneuvers of the controls he's making, or even can trim the controls in manual ways where as a computer determines what he is trying to do and then changes the position of a servo to simulate it on the control. When those types of planes first came out the pilots complained that they could no longer "feel" the plane and had trouble controlling it, so then they then put in electronic servos at the controls to "resist" the pilot and simulate the feel of resistance he would normally feel from the mechanical controls of say the rudder, elevator, or ailerons.

For what? Now we've got two systems (actually three) doing what one system would have done in the first place. Now we've got three times the potential for failure. And now we also have a artificial simulation of what the pilot *should* feel rather that what he'd really feel if he was flying a mechanical control craft (even hydraulics) in the first place. How do you really know now how that control "should" feel? How do you trust it's input? It's now a artificial represenation of what some programmer thinks you should feel. It's not reality, it's a simulation of reality, and now there is a computer and a programmer between you and what the real world is.

There is a simple child's game from years ago...To tell the first person next to you a sentence, and then that child is supposed to whisper it to the person next to them, and then the next to them, and so on, all the way around the room. When what was originally said gets back to the person who said it, it resembles nothing like what they said in the first place.

Point being that the more you remove a person from the analog, or at least digital raw representation of the original analog signal, the more that is lost in translation. No longer can you hear the distinct traits, the fine details, the "raw quality" of the signal. It's been sanitized, processed, and presented in a nice clean wrapper to make it more "user friendly." This is the very reason why there are many vinyl advocates out there for records. Something is "lost" in translation. The "finer" details. The "essence"...Is gone.

Same deal with VDI. The Sovereign outputs a simple 2V scale for the conductivity of the target. At first you might think "how primitive", but think about it. The conductivity of a target is based on a scale of low to high. I want simple pure "low to high" representation of the target's ID in a #. Since it's not sent through layers of fancy processing, what you see is what you get. That's why the VDI on the Sovereign is very "instant" and doesn't lag out of phase with the audio.

Terms of the audio...Man, not exaggerating. It's like the best of the old analog units in terms of detail, yet combined with the numerous multi tones of a Minelab. I've owned many machines over the years, both analog and digital, and yet I've never seen anything like it. Best of both worlds IMO. Can't get more detailed in terms of the length of the sentence it's telling you, yet it's also adding punctuation in terms of tone alerts. Who could ask for anything more, and who would settle for anything less? After all, the audio is key to a hunter. First and foremost we hunt by ear. Most of us anyway. The VDI is just added insurance as a second thought, or when we can't hear to split IDs on two close targets in conductivity.

I'm really surprised there aren't many more land ring hunters with the Sovereign than there seems to be, because IMO it's got it all to try to play that game of trash versus treasure in terms of what it can tell you about a target audio wise. I've owned some nameless machines known for their audio abilities (several in fact), and let me tell you the Sovereign is heads and shoulders better to me in audio. Not just because of the numerous tone alerts, but also in the long detailed audio. It's really got the best of both worlds IMO...
 
Top