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Sovereign in the garden... learned a little yesterday.

jbow

Active member
I don't know if this will work everywhere but in my backyard it did.

I was reading Critter's post about running the sens at around 2:00 so I decided to give it a try. It did work well but I noticed something I have never noticed before. With the sens at 2:00 to 3:00 you need to swingthe coil faster to get a better hit. In fact I found that, with the sens set that low, if I really slowed down my swing to a crawl Iwould not get a hit on known targets. So I tried raising the sens to 11:00 and found the opposite to be true, a slower swing was better... in auto a faster swing gave a better initial hit and a better TID. So, my conclusions from this one site, my garden, are this: if you lower the sens... swing faster. If you raise the sens swing slower.

Also I noticed that I could get a better TID on a couple of targets by slightly raising the coil off the ground. I would pinpoint, switch back to disc and wiggle. I was having a hard time getting a good TID with the coil on the ground so I lifted it. At about 1" to 1.5" I would get a good TID.... i've never noticed this before. Also on a couple of targets a wider wiggle seemed to improve the TID. This may be because the targets are at about 8" and have been in the ground for about 2 months or so, I don't know. I also tried bypassing my meter and inline probe. I didn't spend enough time to tell if I was getting a better audio signal but I wonder sometimes how much signal is lost when it is passed through both a meter and a switch in the probe box. If you know about guitar effects you'll know that something called "true bypass" is desirable becase a regular switch will cause some of the signal between the guitar and amplifier to be lost... this may be the case with meters and inline probes that don't use a "true bypass" circuit. http://www.muzique.com/lab/truebypass.htm

I guess this is a question for Critter to explore..

Anyway.. if you raise the disc sens to 2:00 try swinging faster, tell me what you think.

Julien
 
Good info! Thanks.

I've also found that my GT seems to give better ID when doing a medium or even a medium fast sweep. Of course the fast wiggle will produce the best ID on deep targets. But, I found that normal hunt speed looking for the next target isn't what I would call a slow sweep like most people say you should use. Somewhere at least near or maybe a bit faster than medium seems to give best hits on the next potential target to check out. I've also found when doing the buried dime test that too fast or too slow of a sweep can cause a target at the fringes of depth to usually null out but at the very least degrade in quality. Play around with that on a coin fairly deep and you might be surprised to find what the best sweep speed is while hunting for the next target.

I haven't really noticed the sensitivity level for me to change that, but I have found that too high a setting will cause the ID to get jumpy just as too low will. With the buried dime test I'm finding a sweet spot where the sensitivity should be set to obtain the easiest ID without as much work. Something higher or lower will at least be harder to achieve a good ID on, or may null it out.

It seems so far that at least with the 15x12 2 O'clock on the dial seems to be the most common best sensitivity setting. 1 O'Clock being a close second. Less common at my sites best is around 10 or 11 O'Clock. I have more testing to do with this but it's interesting that these seem to be the most commonly mentioned dial settings in this forum for others who hunt with a Sovereign. For that reason if you don't feel like checking on a buried dime then I'd go no higher than 2PM to be sure it's not too high. Once you find a real deep target that isn't quite locking in try raising it from there and see if at various points the ID is easier to obtain. I'm more and more impressed with Auto each time I use it. For sure it's my go to setting in REALLY harsh ground containing high minerals, hot rocks, and iron. Smooths it out like butter and I've found it offered best depth over any manual settings at a few of these spots, or at least good IDs at any kind of depth where manual was more work.

I'd for sure work any deep non-locking target with different sweep speeds and also different wiggle speeds. I like to do that on "junky" deep targets to see if they clean up. I'm finding at some spots one speed is better than another due to maybe ground conditions, or maybe it's sensitivity prone as you have found. Either way, if people are just passing by any real soft/deep junk hits or even small nulls without investigating them at different speeds, angles, and even sensitivity adjustments (until that is set) then they are for sure missing deep old coins. That's all that's left at some sites, and in order to get the Sovereign deeper than other machines that have worked that spot you can't expect to just let it do all the work. You have to work the machine yourself to give it that little extra bit of help to see deeper or harder to unmask coins that other machines aren't able to even see at all. I try to remember this- That many of those "iffy" signals the Sovereign is sounding off to might even be no response at all on other machines, either due to it's depth, ground conditions, or it being on edge or masked by other targets. Many of those iffy targets could very well be coins that other machines would have no hope to even see let alone make any kind of response to.
 
Jbow, I like to read about this type of testing. I don't do a lot of testing myself because I'm a bit more limited on how much sensitivity I can use in my nasty ground. Most of my swing speed vs.sensitivity vs. depth testing has been done on the beach so far because it's easier digging in sand when comparing a lot of different deep signals while using different sensitivity settings and swing speeds. I know that doing the Sovereign wiggle short and faster over a deep target on land gives me better target ID in my ground with my lower sensitivity settings but also I know that a faster sweep speed like that while hunting would miss the same deep target. The highest sensitivity I can use in some of my better ground is at around 1:00 with the S-8. With the 10 inch Tornado in some places I can go as high as 3:00 if I keep my swing speed perfect. Since most of my hunting is in areas loaded with iron I use auto sensitivity more than I use manual. If I'm hunting a cleaner park type site for deeper coins I set my sensitivity as high as I can with a comfortable sweep speed while maintaining a steady threshold without the ground nulling the threshold out. Using the S-8 with my sensitivity set in the 1:00-2:00 range I've found silver dimes 8-9 inches in some old lawns and park sites but I didn't even think about checking the difference in auto at the time. I know on other hunts while hunting around iron/trash using auto sens. I have dug coins 7-8 inches. and I think I could hit them even deeper.
 
That's what I've found...I'm getting at least about 8" in auto even in bad ground (at least with no RF noise to make it drop lower). I also feel like you that based on how hard and well the coin hit that it could have probably been much deeper and I would still have got it in Auto. That brings up an interesting question...What is the deepest coin anybody on here has hit in Auto? List the type of coin as well and the ground conditions. For me it's somewhere around 9" I think on a 1933 copper penny. Second best would be a silver quarter at close to 8", and that was at a spot that had a ton of RF noise, iron, hot rocks, and minerals. That was impressive to me. Based on how good both targets hit I would probably bet I could get at least another 2 to 3" or more deeper. This was with the 15x12. If anybody does list a depth and coin make sure to mention coil being used. I know I'd like to hear this kind of info.
 
I wonder if the recovery delay stays constant as you raise or lower the sensitivity because a faster swing sure seems to accomodate a lower sensitivity and a slower swing seems better with a higher sensitivity setting. So... if this works in the real world you should be able to match the sensitivity to your swing speed and still get good depth. I've just never questioned the rule that if you creep along with a Sovereign you will get more targets and more depth.

So again... what I found, IN THE GARDEN, was that I could get the same depth and good TID with a lower sensitivity 2-3 of the clock as I could with a higher sensitivity like 11:00 and a slower swing. It is almost as if the swing speed compensates for the sensitivity.

So I wonder if the recovery delay changes with the sensitivity.... I sort of doubt it but it seems to work as if it does.

Everything may change when I get out to a real world site though.. but I hope not because I HATE to swing that slow. I also am wondering if lower sensitivity and a faster swing will work as well as higher sensitivity and a slower swing on the Explorer. Maybe letting the machine process less of the ground allows it to process the target faster and better?

J
 
Most of my actual testing is on actual coins that are in the ground, not some that have been reburied as this is what makes the difference. Auto sensitivity is good for those that are learning the Sovereigns and it is what Minelab recommends for all those starting out to help with the learning curve as the threshold is much more smoother and easy to understand. Once you know your Sovereign which you learn more each and every time out with it and start adjusting the sensitivity the threshold is less stable and you will have to go slower which is good so you can hear each and every target in the ground. Now with experience you will know those tones you want to listen for as they will stop you right in your tracks and doing the Sovereign wiggle over only that target swing faster so it looks like you maybe just wiggling the coil to bring that signal to the correct tone and ID. With the GT I find it is easier to get the correct ID and tones than older Soverereigns as sometime they just wanted to climbed but just cant make it. With higher sensitivity which is around 10 o'clock position it may null more for me and get some little false signals, but I just slow down my sweep speed and try to hear each and every target it sees.
If you want to go fast and get the clad auto works fine and even get some decent depth, but if you want the ones others have missed close to trash or deep I find I have to run manual at around 10-11 o'clock position, go slow and listen close to those tones changes in disc which I have proven goes deeper for me.
I was out with a guy that used to run auto all the time and he seem to get more coins as he could go faster, but I always got older and deeper so always got more keepers. One day we hit this old worked out park I been getting some very deep coins out of that everyone say is worked out. We hunted for about a hour and a half with me going very slow and high sensitivity and he running auto and going faster, when we met up to see how he was doing he had some new coins and 1 Wheaties while I had 2 mercs a V nickle and 8 or 9 Wheaties i got from anywhere from 8-10 inches deep. I found a good signal and had him try it to see what he thought and he said the threshold never changed and there was nothing there so I told him to listen to my Sovereigns and to go slow and he could hear it. I then set his like mine and he now could hear it and went on to find a barber dime before we left he said had to be a good 10 inches deep as it was just a slight high tone threshold change and by doing the Sovereign wiggle he was able to get the tone and numbers to start climbing.
I took out a XS2a on Sunday for a quick hunt to try it out for a guy at the local school that has a lot of shredded alum cans along with some new coins and has been noted to see a Wheaties or 2 and even seen some mercs that may have come from the old school dirt that was moved around to the ball Field. Anyway set my XS2a the normal way and got some new coins and some weaker signals that were too iffy not to dig that were small pieces of alum cans. I decided to check the next weak signal in auto and different sensitivity setting. I got a weak one that i could get the meter to get to 178-180 and a weak tone so I switch to auto and didn't get anything, put it in manual at 2 and still didn't get anything until i got to manual 12 and it was so iffy if I didn't know it was there I would have never dug it. Dug a 8 inch deep plug and using the S1 Probe I seen it was a little deeper and went down another 2-3 inches and out come a 1946 Wheaties. I did get some iron falsing at this high of sensitivity and had to check the signals more and had to go slower in some of the trashy area, but it worked good for me and why I say you have to get to know your Sovereign well with experience in the Field and not on a work bench or coins you have buried because it is not the same.
Other may not agree, but what works good for you is the best to use. With my setting I have dug Wheaties and dimes over 12 inches with a 8 inch coinsearch coil and my deepest coin was a barber quarter with a V nickle that was around 13-14 inches with the Sun Ray S-12 around a old merry go round in a old park that been hunted to death. Actually got a few mercs, another V and a buffalo nickle and 6 or 7 Wheaties that day going super slow and listening to the tones changing.
 
I think it would be worth the trip from GA to get to go hunting with you... you always keep me from going off on a tangent. I appreciate all your help and I know it is good because of all your experience and finds... I wont argue with experience and finds!

Thanks.

J
 
Well said Rick. Sometimes I think all this talk about fine differences in everything a sovereign does is becoming confusing to anybody contemplating a Sovereign, it may be even turning people off to a Sovereign, thinking it is too difficult to use. It's not. Just go detecting and have fun, it's not rocket science. You'll find plenty with it but maybe not everything, which is fine, you can get that the next time out. Set your machine up with your settings and have fun.
Good hunting, Gary
 
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