I went up to my cabin a few days ago and went out detecting in my yard ...I have a few acres upstate NY and the area has some historical places to hunt but I've not gotten any permission , so I hunted my yard .....I came up with a strange signal that was nulling , yet I was also getting a higher pitched tone to the point of Silver sounding , but it was very abrupt ..... I dug down further and got to about 7 inches , and found an old crown cap that was VERY rusted !!!...This accounted for the nulling that I was getting , and.I thought that maybe the higher pitched tone was maybe a false since I had my sensitivity up a bit .........I stuck my pinpointer down in the hole thinking that I would have no signal to deal with , and thre it was !!!.....A STRONG signal coming from my pointer .......I dug about another inch or so , and right there sitting just as plain as day was a Mercury dime !!!..... This rusted old cap was just about DIRECTLY on top of this dime !!!..... I was in Discrim mode, and my Iron Mask was OFF !!.... Grant it this soil is not that highly mineralized, but STILL !!!....... I know my E Trac is darn good at stuff like this , but I had no idea that the Sovereign was that good at scrimming iron that is THAT CLOSE to a Silver target .......Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm !!!.....Jim
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Sovereign GT sure surprised me !!...
- Thread starter synthnut
- Start date
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
these minelabs will amaze u
no screen like the trac..................but
no screen like the trac..................but
Jim, I'm not surprised. I usually turn off iron mask when hunting in thick iron. I've never seen any difference between on and off when it comes to hitting good targets mixed in with small iron like nails and such. Not having to listen to iron or iron falsing also makes it easier to pick out a good target tone like you described when mixed with a iron null. They are usually a quick high blip but a little different than the usual iron false. Sometimes I get tired of listening to all the threshold changes in thick iron also and will switch to silent search with iron mask off and let the DD coil do it's thing.
G.D. Max,
I know exactly what you mean ....I call the Sovereign "Simple Elegance " ........Jim
Crazyman,
I'm trying to get use to the tones on the Sovereign as I have not had it that long ......The high tone right next to the null surely had me fooled ....If it were not for the meter , I would have mistaken it for a falsing tone and moved on ......Again, not use to the tones in this machine yet ...... The meter really came in handy on this one !!...Thinking back on this , you are right when you mention the "blip" tone that came from the target .....I would have gotten a longer tone , same pitch , but a longer tone if it were a false .....Thanks for mentioning that ......I'm of the belief that there is more informaton given running the Threshold as opposed to Silent Search mode , but then again, I just got this machine and have not even used the Silent Search mode yet .... When I heard that you might loose some DEEP targets by running Silent Search because of the lower volume of weak signals , I left the Threshold on to hear these signals .....Thanks for your input ....Jim
I know exactly what you mean ....I call the Sovereign "Simple Elegance " ........Jim
Crazyman,
I'm trying to get use to the tones on the Sovereign as I have not had it that long ......The high tone right next to the null surely had me fooled ....If it were not for the meter , I would have mistaken it for a falsing tone and moved on ......Again, not use to the tones in this machine yet ...... The meter really came in handy on this one !!...Thinking back on this , you are right when you mention the "blip" tone that came from the target .....I would have gotten a longer tone , same pitch , but a longer tone if it were a false .....Thanks for mentioning that ......I'm of the belief that there is more informaton given running the Threshold as opposed to Silent Search mode , but then again, I just got this machine and have not even used the Silent Search mode yet .... When I heard that you might loose some DEEP targets by running Silent Search because of the lower volume of weak signals , I left the Threshold on to hear these signals .....Thanks for your input ....Jim
deanosaur1972
New member
Had a similar experience with an old silver ring within 30 minutes of my first hunt, however my Iron Mask was 'on'. Will have to give that method a try........ I just did a test on a trashy area with iron mask on and I was pleased with the results (isolating targets with the 'wiggle'), much better than I expected........ however......... will have to give that a go at the same area and see what happens....
I have two area's to sweep with major trash problems - all of this information is invaluable as I know there are going to be goodies in both sites.
Thanks for the info.........
I have two area's to sweep with major trash problems - all of this information is invaluable as I know there are going to be goodies in both sites.
Thanks for the info.........
Critterhunter
New member
Glad you saw how the GT can find good targets right in the same hole with iron or other trash. Better to me than my Explorers were at that.
You'll get used to the tones and when you do you'll soon learn how a nickel sounds to the point where you'll know it's got to be a nickel versus a tab. I've dug more nickels with the Sovereign than I have on any other machine because it's so good at sounding off to them with it's expanded tones with everything below a copper penny. Same deal with the VDI. Although you'll pretty much know when you've hit a nickle just by the sound, a quick look at the VDI will confirm things for you. Somewhere in the 142 to 146 range is where I find most nickles will read, though I have dug a few that were just below 140 on the VDI.
For the most part a nickle will lock into one or two numbers regardless of which way you sweep at it. Round pull tab tails or other junk will tend to bounce around by 3 or 4 numbers regardless of even if you keep sweeping over it from the same angle. They also won't sound as round like a coin. I keep popping a lot of nickles that aren't even deep yet are from the 40's or 50's from sites. That tells me that those have been passed over many times over the years by machines with less telling audio and VDI to tell you when it's a nickle versus say a tab or other trash. Most tabs start at about 152 on the dial and go up to 165. Round tab tails are usually in the 130's but can get up to like 142 or 143, but again they'll be easy to ID by the more jumpy VDI and less perfect sound to them. They also won't look coin sized when pin pointing.
I figure that even when I'm just old coin hunting and not ring hunting that I'll soon be popping more gold rings provided I keep digging those good "nickle" signals. I also find when running a notch in heavy trash for tabs that my nickle count goes way up because I'm not distracted by all the other junk signals. Like somebody also said in another thread if the number is say between 75 and 148 or so with good warm/round audio and yet provides a good stable ID from any direction (maybe only changing by a digit or so at the most) then I'm digging in the hopes of a gold ring. I've found quite a few goodies like buttons and such because of the stable locked on ID and warm/smooth sound of the audio. Most trash like foil globs and bits of aluminum can won't stay locked into one or two VDIs, or at least will make a warbly, bouncy, or fuzzy sound that a gold ring won't.
In the testing over well over 100 gold rings that were found water hunting by a friend digging everything above iron only a few of those rings would bounce around more than a digit in VDI and sound bad. Every one of those bad sounding rings were ones with holes carved into them like spider webbing or having a lot of extra cavities or holes in them. Some were rings that had four bands or so at the top instead of one. Mainly most rings will lock into one or two VDI #s and have a good sound to them. Rings that don't are rare and the exception to the rule.
I just scanned three the other day. One read 145, right at nickle. The other read 120 or so and also locked right into one or two digits, depending on sweep angle with great round/smooth/warm audio. The third ring had four "bands" at the top causing cavities or holes in the ring. It sounded sick and warbly, going up and down in audio as well as from like 100 to the 120's in VDI. I can't tell you how many junk targets sound just like that ring. At the beach often I find small bits of aluminum can shards will sound bouncy or iffy like this and keep moving up and down in VDI. Scanning that ring just gives me more motivation to keep scooping up all those can shards in the hopes of the odd gold ring that won't sound/ID well, though the vast majority will.
On land I won't usually dig those bad sounding/IDing targets that keep changing, unless the site doesn't have hardly any trash. And as most of you know in areas loaded with a lot of tabs I'll run my notch up to where it just kills 165 on the VDI. It's about 12.5 digits wide so it's killing all the way down to 152.5, eliminating 84% of all round and square tabs. At a site where I'm finding a lot of 169 tabs I'll raise the notch to that. Often a site will have more tabs say in that range than from 148 to 156 or so. By slightly adjusting it up or down for a given site you can eliminate most of those tabs and still get most of the rings. It greatly increases my concentration when ring hunting by not having to hear the thousands of tabs at say a trash old park. I find my nickle count goes way up when doing that and I'm also more prone to check out and investigate any other target that sounds off outside the notch. I'll further discriminate the target by ear and eye and if it doesn't sound good or the ID isn't stable then I move on.
You'll get used to the tones and when you do you'll soon learn how a nickel sounds to the point where you'll know it's got to be a nickel versus a tab. I've dug more nickels with the Sovereign than I have on any other machine because it's so good at sounding off to them with it's expanded tones with everything below a copper penny. Same deal with the VDI. Although you'll pretty much know when you've hit a nickle just by the sound, a quick look at the VDI will confirm things for you. Somewhere in the 142 to 146 range is where I find most nickles will read, though I have dug a few that were just below 140 on the VDI.
For the most part a nickle will lock into one or two numbers regardless of which way you sweep at it. Round pull tab tails or other junk will tend to bounce around by 3 or 4 numbers regardless of even if you keep sweeping over it from the same angle. They also won't sound as round like a coin. I keep popping a lot of nickles that aren't even deep yet are from the 40's or 50's from sites. That tells me that those have been passed over many times over the years by machines with less telling audio and VDI to tell you when it's a nickle versus say a tab or other trash. Most tabs start at about 152 on the dial and go up to 165. Round tab tails are usually in the 130's but can get up to like 142 or 143, but again they'll be easy to ID by the more jumpy VDI and less perfect sound to them. They also won't look coin sized when pin pointing.
I figure that even when I'm just old coin hunting and not ring hunting that I'll soon be popping more gold rings provided I keep digging those good "nickle" signals. I also find when running a notch in heavy trash for tabs that my nickle count goes way up because I'm not distracted by all the other junk signals. Like somebody also said in another thread if the number is say between 75 and 148 or so with good warm/round audio and yet provides a good stable ID from any direction (maybe only changing by a digit or so at the most) then I'm digging in the hopes of a gold ring. I've found quite a few goodies like buttons and such because of the stable locked on ID and warm/smooth sound of the audio. Most trash like foil globs and bits of aluminum can won't stay locked into one or two VDIs, or at least will make a warbly, bouncy, or fuzzy sound that a gold ring won't.
In the testing over well over 100 gold rings that were found water hunting by a friend digging everything above iron only a few of those rings would bounce around more than a digit in VDI and sound bad. Every one of those bad sounding rings were ones with holes carved into them like spider webbing or having a lot of extra cavities or holes in them. Some were rings that had four bands or so at the top instead of one. Mainly most rings will lock into one or two VDI #s and have a good sound to them. Rings that don't are rare and the exception to the rule.
I just scanned three the other day. One read 145, right at nickle. The other read 120 or so and also locked right into one or two digits, depending on sweep angle with great round/smooth/warm audio. The third ring had four "bands" at the top causing cavities or holes in the ring. It sounded sick and warbly, going up and down in audio as well as from like 100 to the 120's in VDI. I can't tell you how many junk targets sound just like that ring. At the beach often I find small bits of aluminum can shards will sound bouncy or iffy like this and keep moving up and down in VDI. Scanning that ring just gives me more motivation to keep scooping up all those can shards in the hopes of the odd gold ring that won't sound/ID well, though the vast majority will.
On land I won't usually dig those bad sounding/IDing targets that keep changing, unless the site doesn't have hardly any trash. And as most of you know in areas loaded with a lot of tabs I'll run my notch up to where it just kills 165 on the VDI. It's about 12.5 digits wide so it's killing all the way down to 152.5, eliminating 84% of all round and square tabs. At a site where I'm finding a lot of 169 tabs I'll raise the notch to that. Often a site will have more tabs say in that range than from 148 to 156 or so. By slightly adjusting it up or down for a given site you can eliminate most of those tabs and still get most of the rings. It greatly increases my concentration when ring hunting by not having to hear the thousands of tabs at say a trash old park. I find my nickle count goes way up when doing that and I'm also more prone to check out and investigate any other target that sounds off outside the notch. I'll further discriminate the target by ear and eye and if it doesn't sound good or the ID isn't stable then I move on.
My nickels are a pretty solid 143/145 ........Tabs are all over the place ....The one thing I have problems with is coins !!!.....Those copper Pennies , dimes , and quarters , depending on depth, all come in at 178/180....Quarters will stay up in the 180 if they are not too deep .....Copper Pennies and dimes pretty much bounce from 178 to 180......When hunting with the E Trac , the conductivity goes from 0-50 .......50 is mostly a false tone .....The "13" line which is your American coin line of ferrous on the E Trac can jump a bit , but the Conductive numbers are pretty solid ....Part of my beach program will open up the program from the number 46 on up ....46 is consistantly dimes, 47 is quarters , and 48 on up is generally screw caps or Silver ....Silver will sound smoother, and will have a jumping ferrous number ....The tone is very soft and "flutey" I call it ..... Pennies are all lower number conducive ..... Its nice to have that on the high numbers and the ID is good enough to seperate coins ....It's the only machine that I have seen do this as accurately as the E Trac does it .... When on the beach , my high numbers only give me dimes and quarters, and Silver .....NO PENNIES !!!.......I won't even dig the dimes and quarters unless they are only a scoop away ..... " there's GOLD in them thar hills " ......Jim
bootyhoundpa
Well-known member
well done.. sometimes it pays to dig those iffy signals... also you might want to double check those targets that null on the 1st sweep as sometimes i will resweep over that target .at a 90 degree angle the 2nd sweep and get a repeatable signal ... sometimes i find that the deep crusty large cents null 1st sweep or dont give a very crisp signal... when in doubt dig it out...
My buddy has taught me to take and area and divide it up , and to detect each area going in different directions .....Like you said , sometimes you will hit targets 90 degree's from your original direction of travel ..... if there were not so much iron in the ground , I could have searched my area in "All Metal" but my head would be spinning in most grounds that I detect .....Jim
Gary in Daytona
New member
n/t
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
u have to realize that there are many many nice 14k gold mens bands out there lying in the sand for us....... and they are made up of lots of copper and they will read as pennies.................
f y i only
f y i only
Critterhunter
New member
Yep, that's why I'll dig those penny or coin signals on the beach. I might not normally dig those if I was just ring hunting on land because of the odds, but in the sand it takes almost no effort to scoop them up with a long handled scoop. Well worth the effort in case it might be a larger gold ring or even a silver ring, either of which can read as high as 180. In my Splitting Hairs On Ring VDI Numbers thread you can see that there are some gold rings that do read that high. Maybe not as many as ones reading much lower down the scale but they do exist.
I can't really bust on you for not digging "penny" signals at the beach since I do the same when ring hunting on land, also running the notch to avoid most tabs when on land at trashy sites. I've taken a lot of heat from people on that theory and strategy but the odds are in my favor to still recover over 75% of the rings by avoiding the tabs. Same deal with penny signals on land when ring hunting. Mostly I'll ignore them unless they are deep.
Beach for me is a different story. When hunting dry sand I still like to use my land rig with meter because I feel it helps educate me more on the potential of targets, even if I'm scooping all of them. I've learned pretty much exactly how certain junk targets react based on the VDI & audio response after scooping so many of them quickly at the beach. I feel that helps train my eyes and ears for when I want to be more "selective" on land. Anybody who wants to get up to speed real quick on target ID/audio, pin pointing, and the audio of the Sovereign should go hit a beach. The quickness and ease at which you scoop up targets is much faster of course then land hunting, even if you don't have a scoop to use on the beach. It speeds up your learning curve on things real quick since the amount of targets dug (or scooped) is compressed into a much faster pace.
One thing I will disagree with that I'm not sure was in this thread or the other I just read concerning beach hunting. Somebody stated that in dry sand any machine will go real deep. You must have different sand than I do here on the great lakes. Even though we don't have the salt and dry sand pretty much stays dry with no tides and such, I've found over the years that detectors have a real problem with hunting sand in my area whether it's dry or not. We must have high mineral content on our beaches because all the machines I've tried in the dry sand got less depth than they did in soil. The target quality really seems to degrade past say 4 or 5" deep in dry sand while at most land sites in soil the same machine might give a good signal at about 7.5" max on the same target. That's either due to higher mineral content in our sand or perhaps because the sand doesn't create hallos around targets and conduct the signal as well as it would in the soil.
The GT is the first machine I've used that seems to run just as deep (and probably deeper) in wet or dry sand as it does on land. It's depth on land is already second to none (and I mean that) in my soil but I'm amazed to seem to get even more depth in the sand. That's a first for any machine I've used on the beaches around here. Usually the depth is less or at least with a degraded signal on the beach versus land hunting. Even my Explorers seemed a bit "twitchy" in the sand were as the GT purrs like a kitten. I have read some other FBS guys say the same thing. Not sure why that is but there must be something about BBS technology that just opens up performance even more on the beach. No wonder the Excal or Sovereign are known as the machine to own when beach hunting.
I can't really bust on you for not digging "penny" signals at the beach since I do the same when ring hunting on land, also running the notch to avoid most tabs when on land at trashy sites. I've taken a lot of heat from people on that theory and strategy but the odds are in my favor to still recover over 75% of the rings by avoiding the tabs. Same deal with penny signals on land when ring hunting. Mostly I'll ignore them unless they are deep.
Beach for me is a different story. When hunting dry sand I still like to use my land rig with meter because I feel it helps educate me more on the potential of targets, even if I'm scooping all of them. I've learned pretty much exactly how certain junk targets react based on the VDI & audio response after scooping so many of them quickly at the beach. I feel that helps train my eyes and ears for when I want to be more "selective" on land. Anybody who wants to get up to speed real quick on target ID/audio, pin pointing, and the audio of the Sovereign should go hit a beach. The quickness and ease at which you scoop up targets is much faster of course then land hunting, even if you don't have a scoop to use on the beach. It speeds up your learning curve on things real quick since the amount of targets dug (or scooped) is compressed into a much faster pace.
One thing I will disagree with that I'm not sure was in this thread or the other I just read concerning beach hunting. Somebody stated that in dry sand any machine will go real deep. You must have different sand than I do here on the great lakes. Even though we don't have the salt and dry sand pretty much stays dry with no tides and such, I've found over the years that detectors have a real problem with hunting sand in my area whether it's dry or not. We must have high mineral content on our beaches because all the machines I've tried in the dry sand got less depth than they did in soil. The target quality really seems to degrade past say 4 or 5" deep in dry sand while at most land sites in soil the same machine might give a good signal at about 7.5" max on the same target. That's either due to higher mineral content in our sand or perhaps because the sand doesn't create hallos around targets and conduct the signal as well as it would in the soil.
The GT is the first machine I've used that seems to run just as deep (and probably deeper) in wet or dry sand as it does on land. It's depth on land is already second to none (and I mean that) in my soil but I'm amazed to seem to get even more depth in the sand. That's a first for any machine I've used on the beaches around here. Usually the depth is less or at least with a degraded signal on the beach versus land hunting. Even my Explorers seemed a bit "twitchy" in the sand were as the GT purrs like a kitten. I have read some other FBS guys say the same thing. Not sure why that is but there must be something about BBS technology that just opens up performance even more on the beach. No wonder the Excal or Sovereign are known as the machine to own when beach hunting.
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
The GT is the first machine I've used that seems to run just as deep (and probably deeper) in wet or dry sand as it does on land
like i said a few posts back............u are learning
good luck
like i said a few posts back............u are learning
good luck
Critter ,
That was probably ME that was talking about the dry sand being deeper than soil .......It is where I hunt anyway, and is the same for a lot of folks that I talk to in other area's .... ......Gosh, everytime you post about the conditions where you live whether it's soil or sand , it's ALWAYS highly mineralized !!!.....Do you live on the moon or what ???....LOL !!..... That just says all the more about how good the Sovereign really is ....... Depending on the target , I can average about 3 - 4 inches deeper in the sand than soli in my area ..... Even more when compared to some soil ..... Get a trashy park that hss a lot of clay and your not going too deep .... I really enjoy beach hunting because the dig is an easy one , and the babes are fun to look at when staring , I mean detecting !!...... The rewards are great on a good beach ....You just about always end up with gas money and lunch money for the time you hunt ..... You may not hit Gold every time out , but when you do , it's sure nice .... Gold tones , and Silver tones are at two different ends of the spectrum , but BOTH these tones stick in your head big time !!!........ Jim
That was probably ME that was talking about the dry sand being deeper than soil .......It is where I hunt anyway, and is the same for a lot of folks that I talk to in other area's .... ......Gosh, everytime you post about the conditions where you live whether it's soil or sand , it's ALWAYS highly mineralized !!!.....Do you live on the moon or what ???....LOL !!..... That just says all the more about how good the Sovereign really is ....... Depending on the target , I can average about 3 - 4 inches deeper in the sand than soli in my area ..... Even more when compared to some soil ..... Get a trashy park that hss a lot of clay and your not going too deep .... I really enjoy beach hunting because the dig is an easy one , and the babes are fun to look at when staring , I mean detecting !!...... The rewards are great on a good beach ....You just about always end up with gas money and lunch money for the time you hunt ..... You may not hit Gold every time out , but when you do , it's sure nice .... Gold tones , and Silver tones are at two different ends of the spectrum , but BOTH these tones stick in your head big time !!!........ Jim
Big_Easy51
New member
I had almost the same experience...I got a null and a high-pitched blip. The blip read in two directions. I dug down 10", found a crushed beer can. Passed the coil over the hole, and the high-pitched blip now came through loud and clear: a quarter.
I have been using the Sovereign GT for 2 weeks, and I am VERY glad I got it.
To those who made the suggestion, toggle half boots from Sunray will be here before the week is out. Also, a note to Critter: I have a used Minelab 180 Digisearch arriving Thursday. I'd appreciate it if you would email your chart to me.
I have been using the Sovereign GT for 2 weeks, and I am VERY glad I got it.
To those who made the suggestion, toggle half boots from Sunray will be here before the week is out. Also, a note to Critter: I have a used Minelab 180 Digisearch arriving Thursday. I'd appreciate it if you would email your chart to me.
GraveDiggerMax-VaBch-Va
New member
n/t
Critterhunter
New member
The chart I made is in this forum. Search for Sovereign ID Chart or something like that.
The soil around here aint all the bad. I'd say Crazyman's sounds much worse. I never even really considered the soil to be all that mineralized until a friend using two different machines that reported the mineralization on screen said most sites we hit are medium to high in minerals. I guess you just don't know what you are missing in good soil unless you compare the two. I'd at least say that some of my sites don't seem to have much in the way of minerals. Usually these are deep rich black soil sites and as a result these are also sites where there are much deeper coins. We've got a lot of limestone clay and bedrock in our area so more often than not the soil you are hunting is more clay than soil, but there are many good rich/black soil spots as well. Usually these are the older yards, woods, or fields where some yahoo didn't strip the top soil to re-sale. Most of the houses built around here in like the 40's and newer had the top soil stripped right off for re-sale, leaving behind hard limestone clay for the grass to "grow" on. I'm probably making too big a deal of it. There are plenty of good/black soil spots around where I hunt. Some of those are probably much lower in minerals, but I do know some of these black top soil sites are mineralized. They often contain black sand or tiny hot rocks, depending on how you look at it.
The soil around here aint all the bad. I'd say Crazyman's sounds much worse. I never even really considered the soil to be all that mineralized until a friend using two different machines that reported the mineralization on screen said most sites we hit are medium to high in minerals. I guess you just don't know what you are missing in good soil unless you compare the two. I'd at least say that some of my sites don't seem to have much in the way of minerals. Usually these are deep rich black soil sites and as a result these are also sites where there are much deeper coins. We've got a lot of limestone clay and bedrock in our area so more often than not the soil you are hunting is more clay than soil, but there are many good rich/black soil spots as well. Usually these are the older yards, woods, or fields where some yahoo didn't strip the top soil to re-sale. Most of the houses built around here in like the 40's and newer had the top soil stripped right off for re-sale, leaving behind hard limestone clay for the grass to "grow" on. I'm probably making too big a deal of it. There are plenty of good/black soil spots around where I hunt. Some of those are probably much lower in minerals, but I do know some of these black top soil sites are mineralized. They often contain black sand or tiny hot rocks, depending on how you look at it.