Sovereign GT Problems

[fsa46]

My new GT is acting strange. I did a lot of testing at home and things went well . I hunted at the beach and it performed flawlessly. I hunted in disc, auto, notch off,vol max,thres. on, track. I found many coins, some were deep.

However, I decided to try it in the woods and couldn't get a smooth threshold in disc no matter what I did, I could get a very smooth threshold in all metal but not disc. I tried all types of settings, different sen. settings and couldn't even get it to settle down in auto. I came home and the same thing.

I was so upset I headed to the beach just to see if there was any difference. Would you believe it....no problem, I could get a smooth threshold in disc.

Does anyone have any ideas why something like this would happen ?

 

[Maxwedge]

Hi,

Instead of track, I run mine in pinpoint mode on that switch. Iron mask switch in the middle to on. I also run band two. Notch and disc. knobs all the way down. With this the gt will still ignore most iron targets. If it nulls on land hunting you may have a lot of iron in the ground and have to go very slow. Hope this helps. Good luck-Mark

 

[Rick(ND)]

I feel you are new to the Sovereigns are you not?? In this case you may see a big difference on land as you do at the beach I have seen in the little I have beach hunted. I thought my Sovereign was broke on the beach as the threshold was too smooth and no nulling with the threshold changing so many time in one sweep when on land hunting.
I feel on most land site where people have been over the years there is all kinds of trash items with most small bits of iron and other things that make the threshold null or changing tones, so the threshold will not be as smooth as the beach for me. The other thing is electrical interference as I run in 2 and if it get to unstable because of another detector close by or electrical interference I will switch to 1.

 

[fsa46]

I feel you are new to the Sovereigns are you not?? In this case you may see a big difference on land as you do at the beach I have seen in the little I have beach hunted. I thought my Sovereign was broke on the beach as the threshold was too smooth and no nulling with the threshold changing so many time in one sweep when on land hunting.
I feel on most land site where people have been over the years there is all kinds of trash items with most small bits of iron and other things that make the threshold null or changing tones, so the threshold will not be as smooth as the beach for me. The other thing is electrical interference as I run in 2 and if it get to unstable because of another detector close by or electrical interference I will switch to 1.

Yes Rick, your correct I am new to the GT. However, I couldn't seem to get it to work at all.

Could the problem have been that EVERYTHING was wet. It had rained prior to my going out. I'm not referring to just the earth being wet, I'm saying all the leaves and suroundings also. Things haven't dried out yet because it has rained again. I'm hoping that is what caused the problem.

 

[deepdiger60]

Before you hunted in woods did you make sure there was no beach sand between the coil and coil cover ? also the Sov GT loves wet sand and soil it excels so if the ground was soaked from rain it should of worked with no problem , if hunting in all metal make sure you do a good ground balance first . Jim Good hunting .

 

[bootyhoundpa]

refer back to the owners manual.... i believe the track setting is for hunting in the all metal mode and ground balancing prior to hunting in all metal mode while in fixed setting...... i would suggest the fixed setting while hunting in disc mode, another thing you can try is to ground balance in track mode while in all metal then switch to disc and fixed mode....the owners manual says ground balance only works in all metal but ive sometimes found it can help the gt run just alittle bit smoother if i ground balance prior to switching to disc mode..... also iron mask off may help smooth out the threshold..... when all else fails read the manual.. everybody goes through a learning curve with the gt so just be patient and refer back to the manual and you should be ok......

 

[Neil]

just sounds like a learning curve. read the manual thoroughly and you will see what the various toggles do. while in disc, the pinpoint setting is disabled as others are and vice versa, when in all metal, your disc settings/notch settings are disabled.

there are two disc modes on a sov GT. one is the pinpoint all metal mode which gives the sov a very precise target signature, it is not broad sounding like the disc mode or the other all metal mode. the other all metal mode is like the one off the Eureka gold detector which gives you the option of ground tracking continously while you hunt or setting it to your present location and then locking it in so it doesnt change.

you cannot ground balance the sov through its controls in either the pinpoint all metal mode or the disc mode, only in the all metal tracking mode.

two things come to mind when you mention the threshold response your getting in the woods and those would be sensitivity setting and sweep speed. you can get away with a faster sweep speed on cleaner ground but it will show up quickly in your threshold if the ground isnt clean/low minerals.

 

[fsa46]

Thanks so much for the replies and PM.

I think you are all correct , it a learning curve. I had it with my MXT Pro, Excalibur and DFPI and still learn each time out.

I used settings posted on another site for the beach but they do not work in the woods. I was using Disc with Iron Mask On and according to the manual it should have been Iron Mask Off. I'll try it this morning and see if it makes a difference.

 

[Critterhunter]

None of the settings are going to cause that issue, except maybe sensitivity if you ran it too high. My guess is that, even though you were in the woods, there was still strong EMI present due to nearby underground cables, towers, etc. I've seen it happen. Try switching noise bands if it occurs again, and/or lowering sensitivity. Often you can only run as high as say 3 or 4PM at some sites due to EMI or really bad ground. It'll still get outstanding depth though. Second guess would be extremely bad ground, like the site of an old slag dump or something. Third would be battery issues. Fourth would be an intermitent coil cable short maybe. Wiggle the cord up and down it's length and see if it comes back/goes away.

I keep seeing this thing pop up where people think there is a ground balance to set for disc. No, not for disc or PP mode. Disc on the BBS units...What makes them unique among detectors, get so deep and also ID at fringe depth, and handle bad ground so well...is how they ignore the ground signal in a very unique way. It isn't a conventional ground balance, it isn't a preset balance from the factory, and it isn't auto ground tracking used on some machines that can track out deep targets. It is "automatic", but not in the same sense by any means. So nothing to set for disc. Just turn on and go. Same deal with PP mode, because PP mode is a form of all metal not featuring a ground balance.

That leaves all metal track and all metal fixed. Track is to be used by sweeping around a few minutes or pumping the coil in a clean spot to set the ground balance for fixed all metal mode, or you can use tracking if the ground is changing fast (washed out soils, construction, black sand streaks on the beach, etc)...but tracking mode might track out deep stuff that fixed will see, as repeated sweeps over a target will track them out in tracking on any machine. Disc mode is not fixed, not auto tracking, but in a sense is "tracking", in that is automatically adjusts and ignores for the ground signal, but it won't track out a deep target like conventional tracking on other machines (or in the all metal tracking mode on the GT) will, and it doesn't suffer the same issues as a conventional ground balance on machines that can degrade target IDs at depth or not be able to handle certain grounds due to the window range they offer to balance within. IE: Some machines even have a "salt mode", which kicks the balance filter window of the machine into another scale range so you can adjust for it. Not needed on the BBS units, because of the unique way they simply ignore the ground signal, unlike other machines.

 

[Neil]

just sounds like a learning curve. read the manual thoroughly and you will see what the various toggles do. while in disc, the pinpoint setting is disabled as others are and vice versa, when in all metal, your disc settings/notch settings are disabled.

there are two disc modes on a sov GT. one is the pinpoint all metal mode which gives the sov a very precise target signature, it is not broad sounding like the disc mode or the other all metal mode. the other all metal mode is like the one off the Eureka gold detector which gives you the option of ground tracking continously while you hunt or setting it to your present location and then locking it in so it doesnt change.

you cannot ground balance the sov through its controls in either the pinpoint all metal mode or the disc mode, only in the all metal tracking mode.

two things come to mind when you mention the threshold response your getting in the woods and those would be sensitivity setting and sweep speed. you can get away with a faster sweep speed on cleaner ground but it will show up quickly in your threshold if the ground isnt clean/low minerals.

there are two all metal modes, not two disc modes.....my mind and fingers werent in sync there

 

[Tin Fin]

FSA,

I'm still new to using the GT my self - but listen to these cats, they steer you right; they have been real helpful to me. Just repeating what they said - read the manual, do some testing, take your time, swing low and slow... slow.... slow down. Relax into it - it will come.

What Neil described took me a while to figure out; sitting on the porch, reading the manual, moving the switches, taking notes, tossing coins on the ground, changing settings.... not getting any metal detecting done - my girlfriend thought I was being slow or something I guess... but I'm getting it. I've been at it with the GT about nine months now - and no, I don't have it all figured out, but I'm getting better with it, and I'm understanding it more.

These folks can describe it a lot better than I can, but give your self some time to learn it. Slow down your swing - LISTEN to the sounds, there is a "voice" there that is speaking to you in its own way. I can actually hear when something is different, when there is iron and a coin sometimes even, or copper and silver in the same hole; not always, but more often now than when I first started. I can tell depth of the target better. I play the game of listen to the sound, call the target in my mind, then dig it up; be honest with yourself about it and you will learn from that too. Being hard of hearing, I'm kind of re-training my ears, to the GT specifically.

As for chatter itself, well, some days are just more chattery than others. Sometimes it's because a storm is rolling in, but just hasn't got here yet. Other times, I find out I was in the vicinity of a cell tower - those things drive me nuts actually because of chatter, but I haven't proved it to my self yet.

Best of luck, and HH,


But, I can say this - taking notes about my settings, the soil types generally, the locations I'm working in, has really helped me too. Learning to ground balance the machine has made a difference; and most places, doing that does settle the chatter quite a bit. It won't always eliminate it, but it helps.

 

[Rick(ND)]

We see a lot of those new to the Sovereign having these same questions about the Threshold and nulling and the tones changing with a different tone of the threshold. For me in land hunting I hear lot nulling and then low tones that sound like a growl from the iron, sometime it is a solid null so I have to stop the swing of the coil just to get a threshold back again.
The Sovereigns are different then other detectors as you are seeing, but with some actual time in the Field you will learn this is not a hard detector to use and places like the beach may be quiet to use while in actual park hunting it will not be as nice threshold and you will have to swing the coil slower and listen closer for the good tones mixed in with the trash.
The only reason wet ground should give a problem if there is a crack in the coil or cable where water can get in, or maybe water and dirt between the coil and cover, so I always check my cover when it seem like it don't sound right and then after the hunt I always clean out my coil cover.


Rick

 

[fsa46]

Again, "Thanks" for all the replies and help on this. A lot of good , helpful info in the above posts.

Having a DFPI and Excalibur and I am familiar with the nulls and different tones, but this is a different animal to tame. May not be difficult for some but like anything new, I do have a learning curve.

I was at the beach again yesterday and this machine performed flawlessly. Although I didn't find any gold I did quite well, and again found some deep targets. I did in fact buy this Sovereign GT to use for wet/dry sand hunting but thought it would be nice to use in the woods. I wanted to hunt some areas I have hunted hard with my MXT Pro to see if I could find anything the MXT missed.

I'm headed back to the woods today where I had the problem, to try the different settings and see if I can tame this rascal. Stay tuned.....

 

[Critterhunter]

Should add...another among our circle of hunters recently bought a new Excalibur. On several occassions he complained the machine was acting up and thought something was wrong with it. He hadn't changed sites, and yet the machine suddenly went bonkers on more than a few occasions. He was suspecting there was something wrong with it.

One time when it happened I wiggled the coil cable it's entire length to see if there was maybe a short, and then happened to look at his sensitivity dial and he was running it about 2/3rds all the way up. I was using the same 10" Tornado on my GT, and I was only able to run at about 3PM, so I kicked his down to there and I tried it in the water for a bit. Worked fine, so at least that time I think it may have been due to him cranking up the sensitivity too high.

Unlike many prior machines I've owned where sensitiviy seems to always need to be run very high on them whenever possible to get any kind of depth, the BBS units don't need it blasted to get stellar depth. Don't try to force things. 3 or even 4PM will still punch deep. Let the EMI and the ground minerals dictate things. Too much nulling or chatter and you'll miss targets. I tend to ride my coils just a bit over the edge, with a slight bit of nulling or chatter here or there, but not so much that I can't tell what I'm seeing under the coil, or worry that a null might miss me a target. And if I'm getting too much nulling for my tastes, I try slowing down my sweep more before lowering sensitivity. How to tell if a null is from iron or too high of sensitivity? Sweep over the same spot a few times, and try a slower sweep. If it goes away here and there then it was too fast of a sweep or too high of sensitivity. If it's there all the time then it's iron causing the null.

One thing I've noticed- Chatter is usually due to too high of sensitivity for EMI present, while nulling is usually due to too high of sensitivity for the minerals present as you sweep. If it chatters even with the coil held still then it's EMI for sure, and if it only nulls when sweeping and yet won't repeat in the same spot then it's not iron but rather either too high of sensitivity for the given minerals or too fast of a sweep for those minerals and the machine isn't able to adjust for it fast enough.

Most of us know if the sensitivity is too high the machine might not necessarily chatter, but it will null out the threshold a lot, or even all the time if it's really too high for the mineralization. Either that or you are sweeping too fast. I've noticed that on my GT, if I'm not hearing chatter, and yet I've got the sensitivity too high or am sweeping too fast so that the threshold is nulled out constantly, I can adjust the threshold and bringing it back to hearing again, thinking the machine is stable and the sensitivity not too high or the sweeping not too fast.

It's a deception though. Hold the coil still, and if the threshold suddenly gets much louder then that's a sure sign the sensitivity is too high or the sweep speed is too fast, and even though it is, the threshold seems stable, but only because I've adjusted the threshold high enough to hear again above it being nulled out. Sometimes I don't even touch the threshold and I can still hear the threshold in a "null", but it's obvious that it's a bit lower than it should be, because if I hold the coil still it suddenly gets much louder in volume. And I'm not talking about me being able to hear it better because it's changed pitch over a target like that can happen for some of us with certain frequency hearing problems.

Anyway, back to the Excal story- One day he once again had an instability problem that suddenly popped up out of no where, but at that time our other Excal friend was hunting near him, and they both got the same problem at the same time. Same site as before too. What that tells me is that it was obviously a random EMI issue, because what's the chances of both machines going bad at the same time for some internal reason? I suspect passing ships might be using onboard radar or other electronics that cause the random EMI issue, even if we can't see them.

As a side note, if I flip my GT to band 1 when around my Excal friends we can hunt right up within a few feet of each other without interference problems. Band 2 though and it's about a 10 foot distance we have to keep from each other to not cause problems. That tells me the Excalibur, like is said of the older Sovereigns, is indeed on band 2, which would explain why all the old Sovereign ID charts match mid conductors better if you use band 2 on the GT. I prefer band 2 as it matches all the Sovereign charts, and is why I constructed my own chart for myself using band 2 as well, but I've found band 1 will clear up EMI around a house or such when I need it. Just have to remember that nickels read a bit higher when in band 1. Normaly nickels are around 143 to 146 in VDI for me, but in band 1 they seem to read about 149.