jerseydigger
New member
Question... if both run on the same 28 feq. is one deeper than another, assuming the same coil sizes?
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Sov. depth vs. explorer...
- Thread starter jerseydigger
- Start date
jerseydigger
New member
I meant to say if one has 17 freq. vs. the 28 or so is depth effected?
OldBeechnut
Well-known member
Similar but not the same.........the ML SE is a step up from the explorer, explorer II series..done a compare on dry land...of the SE {factory preset} and the excalibur with yellow headphones...the Se was several inchs deeper...this is with the excalibur checked in discriminate and PP mode.
Several months ago...........
Compared the Minelab Se {stock coil}, Excal 8, 10 , Whites Dfx {stock coil} and the Infinium with the 10x14 mono.{Baltimore, Maryland,USA}.regular soil but wet. The Se was the strongest, on depth and discrimination by far. On coins, rings, and junk. With the other 4 very close in the ability to hit each target. I would rank them, Se first, excal 10, infinium equal...with the 8 inch excal and the Whites DFX very close. All of the settings on the machines were just factory presets on the DFX, and the SE. With the excals in AM/PP mode,{discriminate mode been close to equal depth as pp mode} sens set to 12 o'clock, and the infinium set at disc..0...threshold 6 ..
In the wet sand the excalibur is deepest of all except with the infinium being a Pi was a few inch deeper. This being in Oc, Maryland in the wet sand. The results will vary due to locations and the matrix of the area being scanned.
Several months ago...........
Compared the Minelab Se {stock coil}, Excal 8, 10 , Whites Dfx {stock coil} and the Infinium with the 10x14 mono.{Baltimore, Maryland,USA}.regular soil but wet. The Se was the strongest, on depth and discrimination by far. On coins, rings, and junk. With the other 4 very close in the ability to hit each target. I would rank them, Se first, excal 10, infinium equal...with the 8 inch excal and the Whites DFX very close. All of the settings on the machines were just factory presets on the DFX, and the SE. With the excals in AM/PP mode,{discriminate mode been close to equal depth as pp mode} sens set to 12 o'clock, and the infinium set at disc..0...threshold 6 ..
In the wet sand the excalibur is deepest of all except with the infinium being a Pi was a few inch deeper. This being in Oc, Maryland in the wet sand. The results will vary due to locations and the matrix of the area being scanned.
The Sovereign and Explorer are both very deep.This is my experience the Explorer has the edge on silver especially quarter's.I think the Sovereign has a slight advantage with pennies.The Sovereign requires more work and concentration to get the max depth.
I think the explorer is slightly deeper too(especially on very small targets) but the sovereign gives an unmistakable sound on gold especially rings and better audio over all for ID, the etrac slightly deeper than the explorer and seperates better in iron but i still use the XS now and again as i just love the sound, also less time to adjust from it to the excalibur this time of year from dry/wet to water
You won't go wrong with either
You won't go wrong with either
Critterhunter
New member
This was the same question I asked when looking into the GT versus the Etrac and Explorer. I've owned about 3 Explorers or so over the years and IMHO the GT is deeper on both silver and copper in my soil (medium to heavy minerals). If you do some searching in this forum for the word "Explorer" through ALL DATES (or ANY DATES) you'll find a slew of threads on this topic. Many say that the GT is deeper than the Explorer and Etrac. I had several PMs from people who gave this opinion having owned them all but didn't want to be trashed in public about their views. I feel it comes down to the more and higher frequencies that the FBS machines (Etrac/Explorer) have compared to BBS. BBS machines have all the frequencies needed to hit hard on any metal (silver/copper coins or gold rings/etc). From what I've read, was told in PMs, and also based on my own experience with Explorers I feel this might be due to the higher/more frequencies of FBS machines reflecting off ground minerals more or picking up more noise, which requires lower sensitivity settings in certain grounds or when RF is present. Another reason why some feel the GT is deeper is probably based on it's more solid/longer audio and it's VERY stable ID. While it's very high in resolution compared to just about any other machine on the market, it didn't cross that line into higher resolution in certain respects on the Explorer/Etrac which makes the ID jumpy and iffy on some targets and deeper ones as well. At depth my Explorers wouldn't lock on solid to coins most of the time, causing me to suspect a junk target. This can also be explained by the VDI on the Sovereign being tied directly to the audio. What you hear is what you INSTANTLY see on the VDI, where as on say the Explorer the VDI seems far detached from the audio. That's why many BBS users say go by the sound and not the VDI. In that respect the Sovereign is "quicker" on targets then many machines that have even faster recovery speeds. Not a problem on the GT so long as you keep your sweep speed from going to fast.
I've dug a few coins thus far a good 2 to 3" deeper on my GT that gave perfect response on my GT than I ever did on my Explorers, and this was in an area that I gridded both ways with my Explorers with various settings and they simply missed. The GT also seems to run more stable in rougher ground conditions and also has given me better responses (perfect ones) on coins at bad locations that the Explorer could only manage iffy ones at. Also, for gold ring hunting as well many say nothing beats a Sovereign. When I tried to develope a tab-to-ring pattern on the Explorer the resolution was too high, resulting in a blurry confusing mess with it's 2D discrimination. The same tests on the Sovereign have shown it's possible to avoid most tabs while still digging most rings. It's the best ID on the market for that IMHO compared to any machine out there. Even the M6/MXT, which are known great ring machines, do not have quite the resolution of the Sovereign using the 180 meter. It's king of the hill in gold rings as well as deep or masked coins at sites that have been worked over by other machines. The Etrac does seperate trash better from coins from what I hear, but if you swing the GT at the proper speed target separation is as good as it gets compared to any machine. Recovery speed and separation are two different things. Also, use an SEF coil and it will seperate even better than any machine I've owned with any coil in the 9 to 12" size range.
I've also read a few threads where guys who have tried larger coils (12" or bigger) on FBS machines and the Sovereign state that the Sovereign runs smoother and gets deeper than a large coil on other machines. Probably due to the less frequencies/noise. Not sure why FBS would add more/higher frequecies when the high end of the GT scale is already overkill for gold and other low conductivity targets, besides having all the good/lower ones to hit hardest on copper/silver and in bad ground where higher frequecies can run into problems. More of a marketing ploy to me then a true improvement over BBS, but others probably will differ. I found the Explorers to be very picky about sensitivity to achieve best depth while remaining stable, as well as the proper settings for various other things. The machine exhausted my body as well as my mind, taking the fun out of my hunts. Not that I'm opposed to computer models, and not to say that I might add an Etrac to my lineup because I miss computer controls sometimes when I'm bored or want to tweak something for a rare specific site. The GT gives you all you need to max out depth/performance.
Here's just one thread to read over, but if you do that search for "Explorer" on all dates in this forum you'll find plenty of others that say the same thing.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1070438,1072585#msg-1072585
Final note: All three of these machines are SO close in depth and performance that any slight advantage (user, his settings, etc) will make the difference. Remember also that the SE and Etrac are using an 11" Pro Coil. That alone could be the excuse for any slight depth advantage that some say they think they have. Strap a 12x10 or 15x12 on the GT and it's going to destroy that size advantage. In fact, if somebody wanted to test all three in the proper way they'd put the 10" Tornado on the GT and the Explorer 10" coil on the other two machines to compare. That still might not be fair, because isn't the Explorer coil 10.5"? You also have to wonder why they'd put an 11" coil on those machines if they were already better in depth. It would have cost less money to just use the 10" they've been making. I am suspicious that the reason why they did that was so that they could try to stay ahead of older Explorers or perhaps the GT in depth to some people. This is pure opinion on my part but I feel BBS was a true breakthrough in technology, covering all the frequencies needed to hit any metal of various conductive properties at great depths and in the worst of ground conditions. When you come up with a new product you have to sell the sizzle and not so much the steak, but adding "more" to a solid initial invention (BBS) can start to destroy the impact or even compromise the performance in certain situations. Just because you like ice cream with two scoops on top doesn't mean 4 is automaticly better. It may be more ice cream, but it's also more prone to falling over on you because it's so top heavy now. That's sort of the way I look at it.
Do I want an Etrac to add to my Sovereign some day? Yes, I do. It's a huge improvement over the Explorer in both balance and certain performance features. But I don't want one because of FBS. I'd want it for that nice fancy display and certain tweak functions (specific target numbers to edit out). It's ID isn't going to do as well on gold rings while avoiding trash compared to the GT, and the ID "float" may cause me to miss certain coins that the GT would lock solid on, but there are still a few rare times when I'd like a certain tweak or two when I'm being lazy and will allow the machine to handle them for me, such as ignoring a specific number driving me crazy or something. Beyond that I don't care about FBS. Haven't seen anybody prove to me it's got any advantage over BBS, yet it does have a few flaws IMHO. I also think iron mask on my GT unmasks coins better than my Explorers ever did, but again that may be due to the more jumpy Explorer ID causing me to doubt what it is.
One more thing: Setting an Excal or GT at 12 O'clock isn't going to give it best performance. If you are doing default on the other machines I would consider default on the GT at about 2PM. It's a lower sensitivity setting but from my experience it will see targets deeper than noon will if there are any kind of ground minerals or nearby noise to contend with. 2PM seems to be the norm for most people unless the soil is very free of any kind of minerals. In those cases 11PM seems to be about as high as most will go for "best depth". 12 Noon can null out a target because it's choking/overloading on the ground matrix. I've tested this numerous times and it proved all my prior theories wrong with previous machines I've owned. It might even be stable at full sensitivity, but 2PM was much deeper where anything above that would cause the target to vaish, null, or at the very least degrade in quality to where you would think it was iron or trash.
Search this forum. Read up on it. If anything you'll find a split decision on which is deeper of these machines. Also, they are so close it can come down to your personality traits deciding which machine you like best at telling you what's going on with the real deep stuff. The GT reminds me of a Whites in audio and solid ID. That combined with it's long drawn out audio makes it much easier for me to hear, see, and analyze potential targets at greater depths than I could ever get the Explorer to do...for me...in my soil...IMHO.
I've dug a few coins thus far a good 2 to 3" deeper on my GT that gave perfect response on my GT than I ever did on my Explorers, and this was in an area that I gridded both ways with my Explorers with various settings and they simply missed. The GT also seems to run more stable in rougher ground conditions and also has given me better responses (perfect ones) on coins at bad locations that the Explorer could only manage iffy ones at. Also, for gold ring hunting as well many say nothing beats a Sovereign. When I tried to develope a tab-to-ring pattern on the Explorer the resolution was too high, resulting in a blurry confusing mess with it's 2D discrimination. The same tests on the Sovereign have shown it's possible to avoid most tabs while still digging most rings. It's the best ID on the market for that IMHO compared to any machine out there. Even the M6/MXT, which are known great ring machines, do not have quite the resolution of the Sovereign using the 180 meter. It's king of the hill in gold rings as well as deep or masked coins at sites that have been worked over by other machines. The Etrac does seperate trash better from coins from what I hear, but if you swing the GT at the proper speed target separation is as good as it gets compared to any machine. Recovery speed and separation are two different things. Also, use an SEF coil and it will seperate even better than any machine I've owned with any coil in the 9 to 12" size range.
I've also read a few threads where guys who have tried larger coils (12" or bigger) on FBS machines and the Sovereign state that the Sovereign runs smoother and gets deeper than a large coil on other machines. Probably due to the less frequencies/noise. Not sure why FBS would add more/higher frequecies when the high end of the GT scale is already overkill for gold and other low conductivity targets, besides having all the good/lower ones to hit hardest on copper/silver and in bad ground where higher frequecies can run into problems. More of a marketing ploy to me then a true improvement over BBS, but others probably will differ. I found the Explorers to be very picky about sensitivity to achieve best depth while remaining stable, as well as the proper settings for various other things. The machine exhausted my body as well as my mind, taking the fun out of my hunts. Not that I'm opposed to computer models, and not to say that I might add an Etrac to my lineup because I miss computer controls sometimes when I'm bored or want to tweak something for a rare specific site. The GT gives you all you need to max out depth/performance.
Here's just one thread to read over, but if you do that search for "Explorer" on all dates in this forum you'll find plenty of others that say the same thing.
http://www.findmall.com/read.php?21,1070438,1072585#msg-1072585
Final note: All three of these machines are SO close in depth and performance that any slight advantage (user, his settings, etc) will make the difference. Remember also that the SE and Etrac are using an 11" Pro Coil. That alone could be the excuse for any slight depth advantage that some say they think they have. Strap a 12x10 or 15x12 on the GT and it's going to destroy that size advantage. In fact, if somebody wanted to test all three in the proper way they'd put the 10" Tornado on the GT and the Explorer 10" coil on the other two machines to compare. That still might not be fair, because isn't the Explorer coil 10.5"? You also have to wonder why they'd put an 11" coil on those machines if they were already better in depth. It would have cost less money to just use the 10" they've been making. I am suspicious that the reason why they did that was so that they could try to stay ahead of older Explorers or perhaps the GT in depth to some people. This is pure opinion on my part but I feel BBS was a true breakthrough in technology, covering all the frequencies needed to hit any metal of various conductive properties at great depths and in the worst of ground conditions. When you come up with a new product you have to sell the sizzle and not so much the steak, but adding "more" to a solid initial invention (BBS) can start to destroy the impact or even compromise the performance in certain situations. Just because you like ice cream with two scoops on top doesn't mean 4 is automaticly better. It may be more ice cream, but it's also more prone to falling over on you because it's so top heavy now. That's sort of the way I look at it.
Do I want an Etrac to add to my Sovereign some day? Yes, I do. It's a huge improvement over the Explorer in both balance and certain performance features. But I don't want one because of FBS. I'd want it for that nice fancy display and certain tweak functions (specific target numbers to edit out). It's ID isn't going to do as well on gold rings while avoiding trash compared to the GT, and the ID "float" may cause me to miss certain coins that the GT would lock solid on, but there are still a few rare times when I'd like a certain tweak or two when I'm being lazy and will allow the machine to handle them for me, such as ignoring a specific number driving me crazy or something. Beyond that I don't care about FBS. Haven't seen anybody prove to me it's got any advantage over BBS, yet it does have a few flaws IMHO. I also think iron mask on my GT unmasks coins better than my Explorers ever did, but again that may be due to the more jumpy Explorer ID causing me to doubt what it is.
One more thing: Setting an Excal or GT at 12 O'clock isn't going to give it best performance. If you are doing default on the other machines I would consider default on the GT at about 2PM. It's a lower sensitivity setting but from my experience it will see targets deeper than noon will if there are any kind of ground minerals or nearby noise to contend with. 2PM seems to be the norm for most people unless the soil is very free of any kind of minerals. In those cases 11PM seems to be about as high as most will go for "best depth". 12 Noon can null out a target because it's choking/overloading on the ground matrix. I've tested this numerous times and it proved all my prior theories wrong with previous machines I've owned. It might even be stable at full sensitivity, but 2PM was much deeper where anything above that would cause the target to vaish, null, or at the very least degrade in quality to where you would think it was iron or trash.
Search this forum. Read up on it. If anything you'll find a split decision on which is deeper of these machines. Also, they are so close it can come down to your personality traits deciding which machine you like best at telling you what's going on with the real deep stuff. The GT reminds me of a Whites in audio and solid ID. That combined with it's long drawn out audio makes it much easier for me to hear, see, and analyze potential targets at greater depths than I could ever get the Explorer to do...for me...in my soil...IMHO.
Mach1Pilot
Member
Hi guys - I don't post here much but do check this site often. It looks like the best info on the Sovereign series on the web is right here.... 
I occasionally get to hunt the hot mineralized soils around Culpeper, VA. Have hunted it with my Etrac with decent success. However, I have wondered if the Sovereign series would be better suited for these soils....
Anyone have any experience with both machines in highly mineralized soils that can advise if a Sovereign would be the better choice in those conditions?
I occasionally get to hunt the hot mineralized soils around Culpeper, VA. Have hunted it with my Etrac with decent success. However, I have wondered if the Sovereign series would be better suited for these soils....
Anyone have any experience with both machines in highly mineralized soils that can advise if a Sovereign would be the better choice in those conditions?
Critterhunter
New member
Some say just that- That the Sovereign gets deeper in certain sites due to ground minerals or RF noise. The FBS machines have higher frequencies, much higher than what you need IMHO for good gold senstivity, so I don't really see the point in having overkill in that respect. Just much chance for the machine to pick up noise or reflect of ground minerals IMHO. Sovereigns have all the low to high frequencies to handle various ground types and the low to high conductivity of everything from a gold ring to a silver coin. Don't see the point in more myself, and didn't find my Explorers to be as deep for me than my GT.
Critterhunter
New member
I said..."That's why many BBS users say go by the sound and not the VDI." Big mistake. Meant to say that's why Explorer users say go by the sound and not the VDI. It's out of phase with the audio, slower, and less stable. On the Sovereign what you hear is what you see because they are tied so close together, so in that respect it's a "faster" machine than many others regardless of recovery speed. Recovery speed doesn't matter so long as you keep your sweep speed slow enough. Besides all that, what's more important to me is the coil's seperation ability. These SEF coils seem to seperate targets better than even 8 or 9" coils I've used on some machines. Amazing.
Critterhunter
New member
Most say the WOT will get you deeper. Same with the 12x10 or 15x12. All depends on the ground, though. In real high minerals a smaller coil might get deeper. Right now if I was didn't have my 15x12 I would have first tried the 12x10. I have a suspicion that in high minerals 12x10 might be about as big as you should go without passing the point of deminishing returns in terms of size to depth. I suspect the 15x12 is deeper than my 10" because of the depths of targets I've dug with it, but I have yet to dig any coins deeper than the 10" coil has. I figure that if I'm digging tiny little targets real deep with this 15x12 then there isn't any reason why it wouldn't also be that deep or deeper than the 10". Put it this way, I've dug tiny little things at about 11" deep with it and that's about as deep as a few old coins I've dug with the 10". If it will pop those at that depth then I'd expect it'll get coins even deeper.
has been the S-12 of Sun Rays, tried the WOT and it has it purpose in some areas, but never got the depth I can with the S-12 for me anyway on the Sovereigns. The factory 10 inch Tornado coil is also good, but never like the older BBS 10 that much and found some very deep coins with the older 8 inch Coinsearch the 10 BBS couldn't see. Some of the reason I feel is the size of it as it can separate much better in area where there is more trash or other targets, The stock 10 inch Tornado coil used on the GT and were on the Elite do a good job in separating also. Out of all the coils the S12 gave me the best depth, the 8 inch Coinsearch got me more coins out of trashier area with some great depth too and for all around coil the stock 10 inch Tornado coil works very well.
On my Explorer or E-Trac the Joey coil is great, but on the Sovereign I didn't care much. I got the 15X12 for the Explorers and I like this coil, but it is a bit heavy and was told on the Sovereign the 15X12 was OK, but not as good as the ones for the Explorers.
The big difference on the performance on the Sovereign is getting to know your detector well and know what speed to swing the coil at what area, for depth you have to go slow and listen close and can pop out coins over 10 inches deep, so you don't want to swing real slow in new parks, but in the older parks that have been hit hard.
The big coils to me are good for coverage if in a area where targets are far and few, but in area with a lot of targets or iron I find the depth is a lot less than the 8 inch coils will get you. My deepest coins I have got have been on the Explorers and the GT with the Sun Ray 12 inch coils in less trashy sites while my 8 inch coinsearch and the 8 inch Sun Ray coils for my trashy area with the Sovereigns and the Explorers, but have a 8X6 SEF coil I been using on the E-Trac and finding it may be one of my favorites too.
On my Explorer or E-Trac the Joey coil is great, but on the Sovereign I didn't care much. I got the 15X12 for the Explorers and I like this coil, but it is a bit heavy and was told on the Sovereign the 15X12 was OK, but not as good as the ones for the Explorers.
The big difference on the performance on the Sovereign is getting to know your detector well and know what speed to swing the coil at what area, for depth you have to go slow and listen close and can pop out coins over 10 inches deep, so you don't want to swing real slow in new parks, but in the older parks that have been hit hard.
The big coils to me are good for coverage if in a area where targets are far and few, but in area with a lot of targets or iron I find the depth is a lot less than the 8 inch coils will get you. My deepest coins I have got have been on the Explorers and the GT with the Sun Ray 12 inch coils in less trashy sites while my 8 inch coinsearch and the 8 inch Sun Ray coils for my trashy area with the Sovereigns and the Explorers, but have a 8X6 SEF coil I been using on the E-Trac and finding it may be one of my favorites too.
Critterhunter
New member
So far every good thing I've read about the 15x12 on the Explorer/Etrac has been true for me on my GT. Pinpointing, seperation, stability...all these things are an improvement over the 10" coil to me, not to say that the 10" isn't a great coil and better than most coils I've used on other machines in that respect. Same deal with the Explorer/Etrac guys. Most think the 12x10 or 15x12 are even better than the 11" Pro Coil.
The only thing I'm waiting to prove to myself is this coil's depth on coins versus the 10". Like I said, since I've dug some tiny bits of metal at around 11" deep with this coil I would expect to also get coins that deep or deeper but have yet to see that yet. Remember too that most of my hunt time on this coil has been with me running at max stable sensitivity. As I've also said, I've since found out that something much lower than what appears to be max stable sensitivity will provide the best depth. I have yet to really work some of my deep old coin spots much yet to see how this new calibration method pans out.
If you are hunting a site where the targets are say less than 8" deep then it's better to go with a smaller coil, like the 10" or the 8" coils. On the other hand, some claim the SEF coils will seperate better and also "hit" coins on edge or masked by trash better than conventional coils. I'd have to say that is true for me. I've dug more coins on edge with this coil than any other. I think the 15x12 separates better than my 10" from left to right (width of the detection line). If logic follows then the 12x10 would be even better in that respect.
Some day I'd like to get my hands on the S-12 coil to compare to the SEFs. It might be that the S-12 is the max size I can go without going past the point of deminishing returns in terms of size to depth ratio, but I suspect the 12x10 would be the best in that case. The depth of a 12" coil with the separation of a 10" coil, or even better than a 10" coil probably. Right now I'd say the 15x12 feels like it separates better than any coil I've used on any machine bigger than about 9". That's partly due to a DD coil versus a concentric, but also largely due to the unique coil field dynamics of these coils. Just like Kellyco claims, these coils feel like some sort of hybrid of the two.
If anything if I never prove to myself that this coil is deeper than the 10" in my soil, I'm still very happy with all the other aspects of this coil. It's stability is a wonder to behold in rough ground or with lots of iron. It's a dream to pinpoint with using the bottom of the "V" at the top of the coil. It's coverage really helps me to cover open expanses of ground without worrying so much about missing targets. In fact, I bet a few of the keepers I've dug were more due to the great coverage of this coil where as I might have just missed them using something smaller. I've also said this many times before- The 10" coil feels like a sniper coil to me now after getting used to the 15x12. I'd for sure prefer this coil on the beach or in large grass areas. You can grid out an area so much faster with it. One day I'll get around to putting the depth of this coil through some real serious hunting at known deep coin spots. If it turns out it isn't getting as deep as the 10" due to the high minerals around here then you can bet I'll be picking up a 12x10 to see if that does.
The only thing I'm waiting to prove to myself is this coil's depth on coins versus the 10". Like I said, since I've dug some tiny bits of metal at around 11" deep with this coil I would expect to also get coins that deep or deeper but have yet to see that yet. Remember too that most of my hunt time on this coil has been with me running at max stable sensitivity. As I've also said, I've since found out that something much lower than what appears to be max stable sensitivity will provide the best depth. I have yet to really work some of my deep old coin spots much yet to see how this new calibration method pans out.
If you are hunting a site where the targets are say less than 8" deep then it's better to go with a smaller coil, like the 10" or the 8" coils. On the other hand, some claim the SEF coils will seperate better and also "hit" coins on edge or masked by trash better than conventional coils. I'd have to say that is true for me. I've dug more coins on edge with this coil than any other. I think the 15x12 separates better than my 10" from left to right (width of the detection line). If logic follows then the 12x10 would be even better in that respect.
Some day I'd like to get my hands on the S-12 coil to compare to the SEFs. It might be that the S-12 is the max size I can go without going past the point of deminishing returns in terms of size to depth ratio, but I suspect the 12x10 would be the best in that case. The depth of a 12" coil with the separation of a 10" coil, or even better than a 10" coil probably. Right now I'd say the 15x12 feels like it separates better than any coil I've used on any machine bigger than about 9". That's partly due to a DD coil versus a concentric, but also largely due to the unique coil field dynamics of these coils. Just like Kellyco claims, these coils feel like some sort of hybrid of the two.
If anything if I never prove to myself that this coil is deeper than the 10" in my soil, I'm still very happy with all the other aspects of this coil. It's stability is a wonder to behold in rough ground or with lots of iron. It's a dream to pinpoint with using the bottom of the "V" at the top of the coil. It's coverage really helps me to cover open expanses of ground without worrying so much about missing targets. In fact, I bet a few of the keepers I've dug were more due to the great coverage of this coil where as I might have just missed them using something smaller. I've also said this many times before- The 10" coil feels like a sniper coil to me now after getting used to the 15x12. I'd for sure prefer this coil on the beach or in large grass areas. You can grid out an area so much faster with it. One day I'll get around to putting the depth of this coil through some real serious hunting at known deep coin spots. If it turns out it isn't getting as deep as the 10" due to the high minerals around here then you can bet I'll be picking up a 12x10 to see if that does.