Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.

Some more thoughts on large coils

A

Anonymous

Guest
Some of my earlier comments regarding large coils have elicited some questions, which I feel might be best answered here. Where circumstances permit, larger coils DO detect deeper. HOW much deeper is dependant on operating mode, gain setting, soil mineralization, soil moisture content, the coil's internal configuration, discrimination setting (if any) and target size. Since all of those factors are inter-related, frankly there are really no "simple" answers. At best, we can speak in generalities. Generally, a detector goes deeper in the all-metal mode of operation. Thus, if you are in an area where targets are few, and far between, yet very deep (plowed fields are a good example) then all-metal operation can give you greater depth of detection then would teh discrimination mode. This practice works well on very older (Colonial, Civil War) farm sites, including those which have grown over with new growth timber. Also, higher power settings can give greater depth, however, the degree of soil mineralization MAY influence the optimum gain setting permissable. Where soil mineralization is low, high levels of gain can be employed. Where the soil mineralization is very high, a severe reduction in gain may be necessary to maintain stable operation. Regrettably, I face this situation in the Mojave Desert. Since larger searchcoils "see" more ground, they naturally "see" more mineralization. The detector's circuitry perceives "more" mineralization as "higher" mineralization, thus reducing the maximum permissable gain. For example, here is a hypothetical case: with a 10" concentric coil, you might be able to employ a gain setting of 10. With a 12.5" concentric coil, you might be able to use a gain of 8. With a 15" coil, a gain of 6. These are all hypothetical figures, not intended to imply any existing machines or coils, but I think you get the point. The real issue is, Would a 15" coil operating at a gain of 6 get more usable depth then the 10" coil operating at a gain of 10? Maybe. But then again, maybe not. High soil mineralization is the real "depth killer" here. This is the "point of diminishing return" that I lightly touched on in a previous post. You don't necessarily get TWICE the depth with a 15" coil as you would with a 7.5" one; likewise, you won't necessarily get 50% more depth from that 15" coil as you would from the 10" one. Look at it this way: you might get a dime to 8" with the 10" coil, optimally tuned, but with the 15" coil, optimally tuned, you might get the dime to 9, maybe 10, inches. Yes, you did get a depth increase, but not by a factor of 50%; more like 15% to 20%. In fact, you might not even get that. How so? I really like DD coils for their ability to reject iron better then concentrics, and, that they handle "bad" ground better then concentrics. But, this is at a price: depth. When operated at the same gain setting, concentric coils of comparable diameter get better depth than DD's. Thus, in many cases, a 10" concentric MAY get the same, perhaps better, depth as does a 12.5" DD. It all depends on the (several) factors involved. So, it is best to keep an open mind on such matters, and, depend on your own testing, in your own soil, under your own conditions, to make your final decision on what coil to use. An expensive, and time-consuming, practice, to be sure. But well worth it if you want to get the truly maximum depth from your detector. HH jim
 
Jim,
thanks for your time and efforts in putting in these most useful posts!
They are invaluable to us newbies, and indeed all detectorists!
MAy you be covered in 100 oz nuggets!
John
 
Jim,
I'm an explorer user and have DD coils 5",8",10.5",15" and agree with what you say. I haven't used a concentric coil detector for quite some time, but am very impressed in with the DD's ability to find items in trash. Also would add that the larger coils sometimes have the ability to "See" good targets in heavy trash that the smaller coils miss. All my indoor testing would suggest that the opposite would be true but in real life: Often do better with the 15" coil in heavy trash than the 8". I believe that the larger DD coils tend to have a hot spot at the pinpoint spot that can sometimes see coins that are masked by trash that smaller coils would miss.
My question is: It seems that smaller DD coils do worse with handling ground mineralization than larger coils, especially when the coil is not right on top of the ground. Any air space seems to diminish detecting depth on deeper coins by more than the amount the coil is off the ground. I haven't done a rigorous study of this but that is my gut feeling. Ever notice anything similar or have a possible explanation?
Thanks
Chris
 
Hi Jim,
Great info. Thanks!
For me coils are pretty simple. I'm not a depth junkie like so many out there. I still seem to be able to find good stuff at shallow depths. It makes for easier digging.
I simply go with how thick the targets are. If the area is trashy, small coils work best. I actually prefer trashy areas for coin detecting, as that is where I get my good finds with small coils. The larger coils mask the goodies, leaving them for me. The MXT with Shooter coil is great for this.
As the targets get thinner, so do my coils. So for nugget detecting, my current favorite setup is my Minelab GP 3000 with Coiltek 24"x12" coil. The large coil does get some great depth, but that is a bonus. The real benefit is ground coverage, bringing me to dispersed targets quicker.
Which is why I got the 18" coil for the MXT. Ground coverage, not depth. As you pointed out, if the mineralization is high, big coils can actually work against you for depth.
So in a nutshell, for me it is lots of targets, use a small coil, few targets, use a big coil. Depth of detection is secondary for me.
Now, when you get that area where all the surface targets are gone, obviously depth becomes a factor. And I do some of that kind of stuff also. But to this day I'm amazed how many easy targets are out there waiting to be found.
Steve Herschbach
 
We don't have gold in Iowa, and we never had any military battles fought here. So my detecting is for coins. I had a spinal injury a few years ago, so my trips out hunting are not as frequest as they use to be. In addition to parks, I have about 6 or 8 favorite spots that I continue to hunt when ever I can. These are where old picnic grounds, fairgrounds and where "get togethers" were held 100 years ago. Nothing there now but corn and beans. And of course OLD COINS. <img src="/metal/html/grin.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":grin"> After the crops are harvested each fall, I make my rounds. Each year the farmer plows it, more coins are turned over. Feel like a cherry picker every year. <img src="/metal/html/lol.gif" border=0 width=15 height=15 alt=":lol"> I use to run the deepest machines and the largest coils I could buy. Like my Minelab with the WOT. But, opposed to using a machine and coil that finds everything within 2 feet of the surface, these days I would rather use a good discriminator with TID and pull out the good targets within the top 8 inches. That lets me plan for next years outing when the ground has been plowed again. And the cycle continues. HH
 
Gang, Steve made an extremely good point: his choice of "accessory" coil(s) match his detecting needs. As I have frequently stated, serious detectorists have at least one accessory coil, carefully selected to best suit their particular needs. Each size/type of coil should be viewed as filling a particular need. One needs to open-minded, even imaginative, about this issue. In my own case, here are my parameters: Coin hunting: I coin hunt in very mineralized, bone-dry ground, at very iron-trashy (nails, mostly) sites. I need a coil that handles "bad" ground well, readily isolates targets, and rejects iron well. Covering a lot of ground fast is not needed, or desirable. My choices, for my MXT: the 10x6 DD, for most word, and the 6x4 DD, for really "tight" work. Large coils are totally out of the question at the sites that I coin hunt. Nugget hunting: I use a chest mount GMT. I use the Jimmy Sierra "Hot Foot" or the 6x4 DD for really "tight" work in very brushy areas. Large coils are unusable here; you can't swing them. In average areas, I use the stock 10x6 DD that came with it. For deeper work, in more open (and flat) areas, I use the Jimmy Sierra Hot Shot, or the Sierra Gold Max. These two coils work wonders where the conditions are conducive to their use. For example, at one small spot I and my friends have recovered upwards of 100 oz of the Most Happy Yellow Metal. Frankly, we have "hammered" it. Recently, I ran an experiment: I gridded off about 1,000 square feet of ground, and thoroughly worked it with the GMT and the 10x6. Not one signal was forthcoming. I then switched to the Jimmy Sierra Hot Shot, and re-hunted the site. I recovered 12 targets, too deep for the 10x6. Nine were junk, but 3 were of a gratifyingly yellow color, and their value exceeded the cost of the Hot Shot. The point: use those various coil(s) best suited for your use. HH Jim
 
Top