I was reading about another brand of detector, and a statement made that soil water enhances target depth..The wetter the better.. If this is true, then an "in the water" test should beat "distance in air".And you should find artifacts deeper in water than on the beach?????.New one on me, care to comment?? I just happened to pick up on it ,and thought it was interesting ..cordially Nad
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Soil water having a positive effect on depth?
- Thread starter nad
- Start date
nwdetectorist
Active member
I believe theoretically that this is true.
In Oregon we get lots of rain so the ground is wet enough most of the time except in the summer and early fall.
What I have found is that a day or two after a heavy rain; I seem to find the best deeper/smaller targets like older silver dimes.
The only explanation for me is that when the ground is too saturated the signals are more conductive and also the targets appear too large or scattered.
But when the ground dries up just a little then it is the best of both worlds. Wet enough to conduct signals from smaller/deeper targets better and yet not so wet as to cause lots of scattered signals, not to mention what a hassle it is to dig in the mud. I went out a few days back when when had just about 2" of rain and I nearly drowned and had so much trouble digging in the mud
Doyle
TOO MUCH DIRT, NOT ENUFF TIME!
In Oregon we get lots of rain so the ground is wet enough most of the time except in the summer and early fall.
What I have found is that a day or two after a heavy rain; I seem to find the best deeper/smaller targets like older silver dimes.
The only explanation for me is that when the ground is too saturated the signals are more conductive and also the targets appear too large or scattered.
But when the ground dries up just a little then it is the best of both worlds. Wet enough to conduct signals from smaller/deeper targets better and yet not so wet as to cause lots of scattered signals, not to mention what a hassle it is to dig in the mud. I went out a few days back when when had just about 2" of rain and I nearly drowned and had so much trouble digging in the mud
Doyle
TOO MUCH DIRT, NOT ENUFF TIME!
Very interesting! I have a good moisture meter..Think I'll take it along,occasionally record moisture levels, and measure coin depths..We all get these feelings, built over time, as to what works, and what does not..Since I'll be working fairly large,uniform fields ,it will be easy to do comparative readings...The ultimate goal being to find the maximum distance an"in ground" coin can be detected with my detector.Thank you for the input, cordially NAD
Gunnar of bradford MN
New member
well , i found out that pure water will not conduct electricity.. but once you get disolved metals and salts sodium and pottassium it gets very conductive and in most soil the plant roots and decaying plants get lots of thies going so when the soil is whet you can be shure its conducting the signal way better and deeper you might want to hose down the lot you search whith just a bit of salt befor detecting but i think just wetting the ground would be suficient
holey dollar
New member
Nad
Thought yours was a good post very interesting, i use the Vaq what i have found in short is this, depends on the Mineral makeup of the ground when wet, and yes what is the ground wet with.
For example Relic site in WA west Australia the other day, could not get a good GB on the Vaq, had to turn the Sens down to about 3/4 instead of the 10 i normally run at, bye the way the Vaq runs quiet as a mouse in most places at sens 10, yep under a very old tree was the water table at over 12inches deep, no probs turning Sens down again Ran good but less depth, Dry sand run for ever over 10 Sens/ but wet sand with seawater again have to turn the Sens down a couple of notches, Some soil i go to is very moisty good soil/ this in WA means water is close bye/ floods you can bet in Winter.
So you can Run deep in some moist soil no probs/but you will have probs in some wet soil/sand, sorry nad hope your not bored to death yet,
See ya
Dave/Holey Dollar
Thought yours was a good post very interesting, i use the Vaq what i have found in short is this, depends on the Mineral makeup of the ground when wet, and yes what is the ground wet with.
For example Relic site in WA west Australia the other day, could not get a good GB on the Vaq, had to turn the Sens down to about 3/4 instead of the 10 i normally run at, bye the way the Vaq runs quiet as a mouse in most places at sens 10, yep under a very old tree was the water table at over 12inches deep, no probs turning Sens down again Ran good but less depth, Dry sand run for ever over 10 Sens/ but wet sand with seawater again have to turn the Sens down a couple of notches, Some soil i go to is very moisty good soil/ this in WA means water is close bye/ floods you can bet in Winter.
So you can Run deep in some moist soil no probs/but you will have probs in some wet soil/sand, sorry nad hope your not bored to death yet,
See ya
Dave/Holey Dollar
Nad,
The effects of water and salt water in particular on metal detector detection depth has been well known and documented ever since TR detectors were invented.
Salt water and VLF detectors do not mix well. Salt water is very electrically conductive and substantial eddy current flow is generated in the water from VLF signals, this creates strong magnetic fields which produces a strong detection signal which well and truly masks out any signal from a buried metal targets. The transmitted signal still goes deep and generates eddy currents in targets buried in wet salty sand and unless the target is very large the signal will not be heard above the overload signal from the salty sand and water. This is why many early VLF detectors had a discriminating TR mode which could tune out the effects of the phase shifted signals from the salt which enabled these detectors to work quite well at the beach and in the water.
Fresh water has little effect on any metal detector because it is not very conductive. Take any detector to a fresh water lake and it will work in the water.
When the water gets down around a metal target ions and conductive metallic oxides leach out around the metal which results in a larger target area being presented to the detector which enables objects to be detected at a greater depth than if they were in dry soil .
Pulse Induction detectors can be set to not respond to eddy currents generated in salt water and sand because the nature of the transmitted signal is such that the receiver cc ts can be made to wait until the eddy currents from the sand and water have died out then they turn on and respond to the signals from the metal targets. Signals generated by ground minerals and salt die out or decay much more rapidly than those from most metal and so the timing cc ts of the PI detector can be set to read only the return signals from metal
The effects of water and salt water in particular on metal detector detection depth has been well known and documented ever since TR detectors were invented.
Salt water and VLF detectors do not mix well. Salt water is very electrically conductive and substantial eddy current flow is generated in the water from VLF signals, this creates strong magnetic fields which produces a strong detection signal which well and truly masks out any signal from a buried metal targets. The transmitted signal still goes deep and generates eddy currents in targets buried in wet salty sand and unless the target is very large the signal will not be heard above the overload signal from the salty sand and water. This is why many early VLF detectors had a discriminating TR mode which could tune out the effects of the phase shifted signals from the salt which enabled these detectors to work quite well at the beach and in the water.
Fresh water has little effect on any metal detector because it is not very conductive. Take any detector to a fresh water lake and it will work in the water.
When the water gets down around a metal target ions and conductive metallic oxides leach out around the metal which results in a larger target area being presented to the detector which enables objects to be detected at a greater depth than if they were in dry soil .
Pulse Induction detectors can be set to not respond to eddy currents generated in salt water and sand because the nature of the transmitted signal is such that the receiver cc ts can be made to wait until the eddy currents from the sand and water have died out then they turn on and respond to the signals from the metal targets. Signals generated by ground minerals and salt die out or decay much more rapidly than those from most metal and so the timing cc ts of the PI detector can be set to read only the return signals from metal
nwdetectorist
Active member
Just another quick thought.
I have been theorizing for some time now that when the ground is wet enough;
some of the silver dimes and smaller rings and artifacts that were on edge and harder to detect may now be laying more flatly and easier to hear.
Could be?
Doyle
I have been theorizing for some time now that when the ground is wet enough;
some of the silver dimes and smaller rings and artifacts that were on edge and harder to detect may now be laying more flatly and easier to hear.
Could be?
Doyle
R-n-R Magnolia SpringsAla
New member
Used to hunt a spot that had a ton of iron in it and would only give up targets past the 2 inch mark when it was damp. 4 or- 7 inch coil. It was clear ground with cypress trees and oaks in the middle of a modern park only two coins recovered 1909 cent and cherry 1910 barber dime lots of brass and iron.
Neil
Well-known member
Adrian SS said:
Adrian Ive no idea where you got that info but it couldnt be from using detectors on the ocean beaches. Thats mostly the hunting I do and there are a few VLFs that work very well in wet salt sand right down to the water line. One is the tiger shark, another is the minelab advantage, the fisher F75, minelabs explorer/sov/etrac. I would guess those three multi freqs are still classified as VLFs. Ive even used a Tejon and Shadows X5 and X3, but those last three you have to turn up the disc to just below nickel to compensate for the wet sand. also I forgot about the Whites MXT, works real well in wet sand. Those are the ones Ive used and found gold rings with all of them there in the wet sand and many other gold pieces. Anytime you want to test a vlf at the ocean let me know, I live in Ocean County, NJ and will show you.
HH
Neil
HI Neil,
I have done a bit of detecting in my day and have used a lot of different machines and although I agree that some of the machines you have mentioned do work sort of OK on saltwater beaches, even my Lobo ST can be used in the water but sensitivity has to be turned down for it to be not too chirpy and I have yet to find a VLF detector that will run smooth and chatter free on salt water beaches. I do not con cider the sovereign or any of its variations to be a VLF detector. The signals from these machines is quite complex and is processed differently to a standard VLF ground cancelling machine. There is no way a single or even a dual frequency VLF detector could even get close to matching the performance of detectors like the Sov and similar machines and PI units on and in saltwater beaches. I think for an MXT to find an average size gold ring at 15 inches plus out in the waves and in black sand would be impossible.
I think 6 to 8 inches would be the best depth you could expect from most VLF machines (with 9 to 10 inch coil) on coin and ring size targets in wet saltwater beaches.
Sorry we cannot meet and do a few comparisons. (I am in Australia).
I have done a bit of detecting in my day and have used a lot of different machines and although I agree that some of the machines you have mentioned do work sort of OK on saltwater beaches, even my Lobo ST can be used in the water but sensitivity has to be turned down for it to be not too chirpy and I have yet to find a VLF detector that will run smooth and chatter free on salt water beaches. I do not con cider the sovereign or any of its variations to be a VLF detector. The signals from these machines is quite complex and is processed differently to a standard VLF ground cancelling machine. There is no way a single or even a dual frequency VLF detector could even get close to matching the performance of detectors like the Sov and similar machines and PI units on and in saltwater beaches. I think for an MXT to find an average size gold ring at 15 inches plus out in the waves and in black sand would be impossible.
I think 6 to 8 inches would be the best depth you could expect from most VLF machines (with 9 to 10 inch coil) on coin and ring size targets in wet saltwater beaches.
Sorry we cannot meet and do a few comparisons. (I am in Australia).
Neil
Well-known member
Hey Adrian,
Yeah, thats a bit of a drive
Forgot to mention the CZs, those work great also. The ones I would say are the smoothest are the Tiger Shark, MXT with the 6X10 elliptical, Advantage and any of the CZs. Could be soil diffences where we hunt, Im mentioning the ones Ive tried. your right, none equal the FBS or BBS minelabs. Ive got an explorer, sov gt and an etrac on the way. gotta have top depth at the beach, sand sucks the drops down deep quick.
Good hunting to you,
Neil
Yeah, thats a bit of a drive
Forgot to mention the CZs, those work great also. The ones I would say are the smoothest are the Tiger Shark, MXT with the 6X10 elliptical, Advantage and any of the CZs. Could be soil diffences where we hunt, Im mentioning the ones Ive tried. your right, none equal the FBS or BBS minelabs. Ive got an explorer, sov gt and an etrac on the way. gotta have top depth at the beach, sand sucks the drops down deep quick.
Good hunting to you,
Neil
Neil,
I have had a reasonable amount of success with my Lobo ST at the beach, it is very good on small chains and rings. When I take it into the surf the sensitivity has to set at around the 6 or 7 mark to get it to run reasonably well and I have been able to find Aussie coins at close to the 8 inch mark at that setting.with mode switch in normal. The black sand mode does a fair job of smoothing out response in our black sand.
Good hunting to you also.
Cheers ,
Adrian
I have had a reasonable amount of success with my Lobo ST at the beach, it is very good on small chains and rings. When I take it into the surf the sensitivity has to set at around the 6 or 7 mark to get it to run reasonably well and I have been able to find Aussie coins at close to the 8 inch mark at that setting.with mode switch in normal. The black sand mode does a fair job of smoothing out response in our black sand.
Good hunting to you also.
Cheers ,
Adrian
I can tell you without a doubt that my Tejon is much much deeper in wet soil. Seems like the wetter the better. Sometimes it is such a hassle that I give up after awhile because of all the mud. One of my spots is along a small hillside alongside a major highway and at the bottome of the hill I have pretty well hunted it out. However, when it is very wet, and the water is running down the hill just below the surface of the soil I always go in there and find really deep minnie balls. In dry weather I find the Tejon to be good, but not nearly as good as in very wet soil.