So Keith---------

[Shenandoah Digger]

Now that you've got a few hours on the Racer, what are the main differences you see between it and the Fors Core?

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Or which one are you going to keep and why?

 

[Keith Southern]

The Racer and the CoRe are very similar..

just one Khz devides them in freq...

I just got back form another hunt...I have about 16 hours on the Racer now...


Its sensitive to small target's as is the CoRe..yet the Racer seems a little deeper on high conductors over the CoRe..

I dont feel its quite as sensitive to the tiniest of targets as the CoRe..but how small do you want to really go...I aslo feel that maybe theres a slight slower recovery in the nano seconds it could jsut boil dopwn to the simple fact it has a different coil from the Core....and this allows for maybe a little better depth on higher conductors...but again if you did not have a CoRe then it would be non noticable..and some times I am anal about things that some would probably not pay much attention too...

Now I dont like the pistol grip of the CoRe all that well but I have grown to accept it and my hand fits it now as a extension of my arm..
Heres something that will get your attention...the Racer is 3 Lbs and looks ergonomic yet swing it for a couple of hours in real world hunts and the forearm will feel it...the handgrip is too straight of a right angle ..the machien is nose heavy with stock coil..

The machine Has excellent audio like the CoRe...Killer B's work well for me...Im not a fan of the Bluetooth..Something I feel is lost in transmission....the little nuances seem removed from the report.. and I suspect there is a slight minute amount of latency...Me personally I feel disconnected from the hunt in a way using the Bluetooth...others may enjoy it ..I want raw audio feed for iron unmasking work..

I love the small semi elliptical coil one The CoRe and the Racer has the same one...yet for me that small coil on the Racer seems to be Overly sensitive to iron...its really has me digging some of it up thinking its a coin..of the dime size sound.. the CoRe on same targets with small coil hits on the iron but talks to me to tell me its iron.....even with trunign the gain back consderably the small coil is not letting me Know its an iron false..Stock coil does not seem to exhibit this ..it seems equal to the CoRe stock coil in those terms..

All in all its a Core in the new housing with some tweeks here and there...minute ..

The display is full of info and large numbers easy to see...

the battery life is excellent on both units..even using the flashlight..

build quality is well above average especially for the price...Looks like a 1000.00 dollar unit...

I like the armrest on the Racer better than the CoRe.. the CoRe in my opinion is too shallow..my arm feels like it wants to roll out of it..not so on the Racer..

The Racer unmask very well with no intricate settings to get that done.. just like the CoRe..

Got a lot more testing and hunting to do...



Keith

 

[Shenandoah Digger]

Thanks Keith.

 

[Keith Southern]

As I ponder my findings on the Racer vs CoRe with small coil Vs Small coil...Im starting to think the small coil on the Racer is seeing deeper larger items than the small coil on the CoRe... hence more deep iron falses...i.e. solid 83's till closer to the coil...

the small coil on the CoRe airtest deep but in the dirt its not that deep on larger items..it finds slivers of small stuff on the CoRe like no other though... I think on the CoRe the small coil is not seeing deep iron like the small coil is on the Racer...

the larger coils are more equal in performance ...except the CoRe is hotter on the lowest of conductors a little more than the Racer..and the Racer seems to report larger targets smoother at depth....

Keith

 

[Monte]

as well as some preferences between the Nokta Coin & Relic and Makro Racer models.

The Racer and the CoRe are very similar..

Yep, similar adjustment functions, and very similar in-the-field performance.

just one Khz devides them in freq...

Almost a moot point, at least for Coin & Relic Hunters.

I just got back form another hunt...I have about 16 hours on the Racer now...

It's 3:17 am and I have been doing more bench testing the past 3+ hours, and I put more detecting time in yesterday as well as Thursday & Friday. I find the Racer, like the FORS Core, kind of begs to be used more.

Its sensitive to small target's as is the CoRe..yet the Racer seems a little deeper on high conductors over the CoRe..

Yes, they are both very sensitive, and after I got home about dark o'clock and read this post, it made me wonder a little more so I gathered up a Zinc cent, Clad dime, thin-worn 'V' nickel, Clad quarter and 1900 Morgan silver dollar. Also all of the search coils for both models and a few additional sample targets. All search coils were propped in the same position, and I tested both the Coin & relic and racer in the 2-Tone mode, using Sensitivity/Gain settings of '25', '50', '75' and '95.' Put on my Killer B II headphones and tested them as best I could, noting that I had EMI issues off-and-on from some nearby power source, most noticeable above a Gain setting of 70'ish.

Yes, these were "air tests" but all conditions were equal. My measuring set-up was broken down into inches, and I relied on charting what I considered to be the most distant digable response. For Coin Hunting, they were too close to nit-pick.

I dont feel its quite as sensitive to the tiniest of targets as the CoRe..but how small do you want to really go.

And that is the one last double-check I will do tomorrow, or actually today after daylight returns, when I can get out away from town. I asked Steve about performance on small gold pickers and a god nugget, and I am sure he'll compare when he returns. Of the three of us, I think Steve would be the authority on how well these two models can perform for Gold Nugget Hunting, while You certainly get the nod for Relic Hunting as that's a main focus. I guess I am a Coin Hunter/Relic Hunter, especially since the bulk of my old coin and trade token searches are conducted in older town sites and homesteads, and that also rewards me with some interesting artifacts along the way.

I have done a wee bit of nugget hunting in years past when my health allowed me to put in the hiking and endurance required to seriously search gold producing country, but the largest nuggets I ever found were a 5 dwt and 8 dwt [size=small](dwt = pennyweight so 25% of an ounce and 40% of an ounce)[/size] in California. The rest were smaller nuggets and I have kept two little 'pickers' in a small glass vial [size=small](with the foil removed from inside the lid)[/size] that provide a tough test for a lot of gold nugget intended detectors. Just about the time the EMI came on strong a while ago, I was getting the impression the FORS CoRe was noticeably more responsive on the two 'pickers' than the Racer. A few hours from now I will be double checking where there's no EMI.

I aslo feel that maybe theres a slight slower recovery in the nano seconds it could jsut boil dopwn to the simple fact it has a different coil from the Core....and this allows for maybe a little better depth on higher conductors...but again if you did not have a CoRe then it would be non noticable..and some times I am anal about things that some would probably not pay much attention too...

Checked the notes and there ware very minute differences with some coins, but no more than ½".

Now I dont like the pistol grip of the CoRe all that well but I have grown to accept it and my hand fits it now as a extension of my arm..

I didn't think I would like it as it appeared to have a too-forward cant to it, but .... it feels good, balances well, and is actually nicer than many other units I have/had and feels comfortable.

Heres something that will get your attention...the Racer is 3 Lbs and looks ergonomic yet swing it for a couple of hours in real world hunts and the forearm will feel it...the handgrip is too straight of a right angle ..the machien is nose heavy with stock coil..

Yes, the Racer grip seems to have a too abrupt bend, but I still find it balances fine, and I was doing some side-hill hunting yesterday and the grip angle actually felt better working the coil up in front of me.

The stock coil is a little nose heavy after a while, but I think that's because the different design housing they use has the rod-mount too close to the rear. The Nokta FORS CoRe has the rod-mount closer to the center and that helps with balance and feel. The 5½X10 mounts more centered and felt fine with less fatigue.

The machine Has excellent audio like the CoRe...Killer B's work well for me.

Check! I, too, use Killer B', but the White's Pro Star also have a pleasant sound and I use them as well.

Im not a fan of the Bluetooth..Something I feel is lost in transmission....the little nuances seem removed from the report.. and I suspect there is a slight minute amount of latency...Me personally I feel disconnected from the hunt in a way using the Bluetooth...others may enjoy it ..I want raw audio feed for iron unmasking work..

I know some people will really like the Bluetooth set-up, but while I will use them for some applications, I prefer the 50 ohm Pro Star and 150 ohm Killer B's. The Phillips [size=small](I couldn't find the specs)[/size] seem as if they are more like 32 ohm or less impedance speakers, resulting in more of a muffled audio. With my impaired hearing I need all the help I can get.

I love the small semi elliptical coil one The CoRe and the Racer has the same one.

Yes, indeed! I love that coil on both models, and it will likely be mounted full-time on my Racer.

yet for me that small coil on the Racer seems to be Overly sensitive to iron...its really has me digging some of it up thinking its a coin..of the dime size sound.. the CoRe on same targets with small coil hits on the iron but talks to me to tell me its iron.....even with trunign the gain back consderably the small coil is not letting me Know its an iron false.

I wondered about that yesterday at an older home site, but I switched detectors, used the same settings and coils, and could only attribute it to the type of iron target [size=small](size and shape)[/size] which can cause some troubles with Double-D coils, especially when a detector is very sensitive.

Stock coil does not seem to exhibit this ..it seems equal to the CoRe stock coil in those terms..

Again, I found the only concerns, so far, to be the particular type of ferrous trash I was dealing with. The small coils and both detectors are just very sensitive. I love it!

All in all its a Core in the new housing with some tweeks here and there...minute ..

Yes, very, very similar.

The display is full of info and large numbers easy to see...

Very informative , and I have only noticed a similar display info concept on a Teknetics Omega.

the battery life is excellent on both units..even using the flashlight..

Check!

build quality is well above average especially for the price...Looks like a 1000.00 dollar unit...

And it's performance is better than its attractive appearance, too.

I like the armrest on the Racer better than the CoRe.. the CoRe in my opinion is too shallow..my arm feels like it wants to roll out of it..not so on the Racer..

Couldn't agree more, especially with the chillier weather when I am wearing a coat.

The Racer unmask very well with no intricate settings to get that done.. just like the CoRe..

Yep!

Got a lot more testing and hunting to do...

Almost endless due to the impressive results, dazzling performance, and both of these models are 'fun to use' and that's an important ingredient. Definitely calls for more time.

Keep up the field time and 'Thank You' for the videos. I need to put a camera on my shopping list.

Monte

 

[wayne_etc]

I have nice red dirt like you. Which one handles it better?


w

 

[Monte]

I will be hunting some Oregon 'red dirt' this coming Thursday. I will say that some of the dirt we have near the park here in my town, and the beach are kind of a challenge. Not 'red' , but the Ground Phase is '83' and the Racer lights up ¾ of the Fe3O4 pieces of pie. On Thursday I am also going to be hunting a volcano [size=small](former, I hope)[/size] park that has some spots of challenging ground mineral.

Monte

 

[wayne_etc]

n/t

 

[Keith Southern]

They both seem the same in my bad dirt....I sense a slight edge to higher coins on the Racer but minute....but as far as mineral see through they both are very good at that.. maybe better than you are used to on a single freq unit..

Keith

 

[cedarswamp]

.Between monte and Keith every time I read your posts cost me money now I have to buy one make mine the cores.Three things to look for depth seperation build quality,,,,,,,,,CEDAR P.S. Will pull the trigger when a few things get sold garage sale price LOL

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Yes it is getting so hard to decide which one....the racer is like what I'm use to and the price is what I want to pay for a backup detector...then I read that there is another coil 5x 10 like the At Gold and now I have to wait and see what that can do. Anyway you look at it I think these machines are going to give the big boys a lot of trouble and fisher has a few that will be released this year but I think the racer and Co Re are going to really hurt their sales..

 

[Monte]

..then I read that there is another coil 5x 10 like the At Gold and now I have to wait and see what that can do.

I gave my first info of the 5.½X10 DD in this link:

http://www.findmall.com/read.php?100,2149279,2149279#msg-2149279

It was comparing all five search coil size's I have, from the 'standard' coil close to 7X11 to the smaller coils for each model, and I also used the 5½X10 solid DD on the Racer. It was just a simple evaluation of my Nail Board Performance Test because some asked how larger-sized coil, such as the 'standard' coils, would handle the nails with a full '40' Discriminate setting which is way above iron nail rejection.

As for handling mineralization, as well as iron trash, I have been impressed so far. I am making a quick lunch break and headed back out, but thought I'd share this answer about this solid elliptical DD coil. Personally, I hunt trashier sites more than open areas so I make use of smaller-than-stock search coils the majority of the time. UI do opt for standard or larger coils as the need arises and the site is somewhat sparse on metal targets.

Yes it is getting so hard to decide which one....the racer is like what I'm use to and the price is what I want to pay for a backup detector.

Looking at your signature, it appears you already have a couple of 'back-ups.'

Anyway you look at it I think these machines are going to give the big boys a lot of trouble and fisher has a few that will be released this year but I think the racer and Co Re are going to really hurt their sales..

In all seriousness, I can guarantee both of these models currently have, and I am certain they still will, hold the attention of avid detectorists and the competition for some time. Too many upper-end [size=small](aka upper $$$ expense)[/size] models seem to have more adjustment features and functions than most serious detectorists really need, or in fact want. These provide ample adjustments, but 'simple,' and are well balanced and the in-the-field performance is very impressive. So much that they have made me make an almost total change-up in my personal arsenal. It's not just the finished product, it is the involvement of the company that is also very impressive.

I'll answer comments about 'picking a favorite' either tonight or tomorrow.

Monte

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Thanks for all of your knowledge and passion for our hobby..you hunt ghost town in Navada...I live in the Gold Country of Calif and have always wanted to hunt some of the ghost towns that are not huntned out or really known. I understand there are some good sites that are lost and not knowen by many. That would be a nice way for me to see how I could do in that type of setting. Back in the day I knew Jimmy from whites and he told me some of the hunts they went on and in heavy iron but the relics they brought back were worth the hard work. He loved ghosts towns and he lived in the bay area of Calif and told me about the parks they would hit and even schools and the silver they would pull out. We have a place called Golden Gate Park in San Francisco and he told me about how they would hunt that and pull out lots of relics and coins..When we had the big earth quack back in the day people lived in tents there. We still find relics there but in Jimmys time everything was huntable with no one asking you what you were doing or you can't hunt here...different time and our time now will be looked at as a good time in the future as it gets even harder to hunt...So you are going to let us know which machine you like best and why....very cool.

 

[Monte]

Low-Boy, I love to hunt ghost towns, and have since May of 1969. I would visit any ghost town or homestead or other early-era activity site as often as possible, but still mainly hunted in the urban environments because there were so many coins and so many places to hunt them ... undisturbed or bothered ... that it was great. I was still finding a lot of coins, to include many older coins, especially ample silver, because it was pretty much first-come/first served. Those were the good old early days when my annual coin recoveries were very impressive numbers. Very impressive, from '65 all the way through the '70s and into the early '80s.

I still made ghost town trips, but less often because we didn't have good detectors for hunting them .... until 1983. In mid-summer I latched a hold of the just released Tesoro Inca and that made a dramatic change! They had the slow-sweep performance that was needed, and the ability to handle iron well, leaving me with a quick-response, fast recovery detector [size=small](and those models that followed)[/size] that provided me the performance I wanted and needed.

Since the summer of '83 I have always made it a point to own and keep at least two detector models as my #1 and #2 regular-use detectors that were some of the best at handling iron nail infested sites. Well, that continues to this very day with some very recent changes I'm making in my entire personal detector line-up. I am working on my notes made this past week of detecting and I will be working up my post of the Makro Racer, and the Part 2 additional comments to my initial review of the Nokta FORS CoRe.

I plan on finishing up packing and grabbing some rest before I head out for about a 3 hour drive to meet a friend so we can search an old recreation destination popular in the latter 1800's. I will be posting my product reviews later tomorrow evening when I am finished.

Monte

 

[Low-Boy/LCPM]

Thanks very much hope to read your review soon