Find's Treasure Forums

Welcome to Find's Treasure Forums, Guests!

You are viewing this forums as a guest which limits you to read only status.

Only registered members may post stories, questions, classifieds, reply to other posts, contact other members using built in messaging and use many other features found on these forums.

Why not register and join us today? It's free! (We don't share your email addresses with anyone.) We keep email addresses of our users to protect them and others from bad people posting things they shouldn't.

Click here to register!



Need Support Help?

Cannot log in?, click here to have new password emailed to you

Changed email? Forgot to update your account with new email address? Need assistance with something else?, click here to go to Find's Support Form and fill out the form.

Simple test

WV62

Well-known member
Here is a simple little (maybe dumb) test that gave me surprising results, I really thought that in this advanced High Tech world of Metal Detectors that the outcome would have been a little better than what I got. I
 
I thought for sure that with a coin added to the detection field with the pull tab that the target response would have went higher than what it did?

With the Coinstrike the pull tab alone came in at a reading of like 13, when I added the quarter to the test the target response only climbed to a reading of 14-15 which still didn't raise the target report above the tab range??

I got the same results with my other detectors. Once I started watching the ID numbers I could see just how much (how little) the detectors could see through or around the pull tab (PT)

So far we've tried eight different detectors on this little simple test and so far none of them has hit on the coin/PT combination higher than the PT zone (PT by itself)

When it dries up a bit around here I'm thinking about planting this test in the ground, dig one 6" hole with my plugger,
put a quarter in the bottom,
cut the removed plug in half,
put the bottom 3" of it back in the hole,
then lay the PT on top of that,
then replace the top 3" of the plug and let it rest for a few months and see if in the ground makes any difference.

Mark
 
High,
Have you tried it with the pulltab ring broken/snipped apart ?? Or folded over ??
Maybe this way, the pulltab doesn
 
skookum said:
High,
Have you tried it with the pulltab ring broken/snipped apart ?? Or folded over ??
Maybe this way, the pulltab doesn
 
Ron, take a clear plastic cup that you drink out of and lay the pull tab on the ground and set the cup upside down over it, put the dine on top of the cup, then you will get the dime. Most all detectors stop at the first target it see. The field of detection is broken and it don,t pick up anything else. If your detector is a fast detector you can pick up the dime in the hole of the tab both laying flat on the ground. The VDI will be off some but still you will know that there is something there other than a tab. Let us know how it works out for you. Flintstone
 
High,
Seem not to be able to find the link to the video:
I think it was on youtube.
A guy with his old compass T/R metal detector doing a bench test and demonstrating quite clearly that his aged unit could see through different kinds of junk and still detect coins and rings(?) that were covered by other metals.
I don`t remember whether he was using pull tabs as junk-metal though.
None the less, it sure was impressive to see what his "not up to date" unit could do.
HH
skookum
 
skookum said:
High,
Seem not to be able to find the link to the video:
I think it was on youtube.
A guy with his old compass T/R metal detector doing a bench test and demonstrating quite clearly that his aged unit could see through different kinds of junk and still detect coins and rings(?) that were covered by other metals.
I don`t remember whether he was using pull tabs as junk-metal though.
None the less, it sure was impressive to see what his "not up to date" unit could do.
HH
skookum

skookum,
I see you have some White's detectors in your line up, I know back in the day my old White's had a TR mode, just wondering if any of yours still have a TR mode? Could the answer be for me to go back in time to get this silver.
I am pretty sure I seen the same video here in the last couple of weeks, I just didn't think about that and this testing, I will look around myself.

Thanks,
Ron in WV
 
Classic example of why many good targets are missed by masking. Most sure way to avoid missing the good target in these examples is to hunt in all metal and dig both targets and let your eyes do the discrimination. Some detectors handle the masking better when the targets are side by side or slightly separated versus directly over as shown in this thread.
BB
 
Quote Ron :
"I see you have some White's detectors in your line up, I know back in the day my old White's had a TR mode, just wondering if any of yours still have a TR mode?"

High,
Yes, the 6000 Di pro SL has a T/R mode.
I must admit, I do not use it very often. The threshold/ground balance tends to change after a few minutes, so I have to flick the toggle switch to reset.
The 5900(which I unfortunately do not own) has the same mode, being an identical machine except with manual ground balance.
HH
skookum
 
skookum, that old Compass 77b trick video you saw, was only for iron masking. The all-metal TR could see through a few nails at a time to see/hear a conductor beneath. But no, it would not have worked with trying to see through a low conductor (foil or tabs, for instance, beneath junky bleachers, etc....). All conductors (both lows and highs) were treated the same on that old setup. Only small iron would it see through (up to a degree).

And don't confuse TR Disc, with TR all-metal. The TR you see on Whites 6000s, was TR disc, which is something different. That will not "see through" anything. It is as prone to masking as any other form of disc. True, you could "stop right on a target" (no motion required) and thus, I suppose, have good separation features. But if the targets were truly on top of each other, TR disc. would tend to see the upper-most target, just like other forms of disc, have, and do, to this day.

BTW, the compass 77b benefits ended right there. In all other ways, it was a dinasour. Poor depth (compared to today's machines anyhow), poor in minerals, no other form of disc, a bear to keep balanced/tuned, etc....

A good machine for this "averaging" test, will be any 2-filter machine. You know, like the Whites Classics, or the Tesoro Silver Sabre, etc... If you tune out foil or tabs, you can still get a positive beep if a dime were underneat a foil or tabs (depending on the placment, spacing, ground minerals, disc. dial setting, etc....). But of course, the downsides will be, less depth than power-house machines, less ability in minerals, etc....
 
Hello Tom.
Yes, you
 
Ron,far from being a dumb test what you have demonstrated is the problem all metal detectors face....trying to detect an object that lies underneath another object.If an object such as a small coin is totally obscured by another object above it no detector on the market can detect it.If however the coin is slightly to the side of the object above it,some detectors may have the speed and sensitivity to be able to register a diggable signal on the coin.In reality no metal detector can see through one metal to see another.There are some videos on the internet that seem to prove otherwise but these are usually tricks to make a detector look better than it is.One example is the coin under a piece of iron where the detector operator waves a large piece of iron under the coil which produces a signal.The operator then discs out the iron so the detector no longer registers it.A coin is then held under the iron and in contact with it and the iron is again waved under the coil which this time produces a signal looking as though the detector has picked up the coin under the iron.How this is done is simple.........the disc setting is set very accurately to only just discrim the iron.When the coin is now placed behind the iron and in contact with it,the iron has gained more mass as a single object thus overcoming the discrim setting that was originally set.If the coin was held only one millimeter away from the iron or even less for that matter,as long as the coin did not touch the iron there would be no signal.This can sometimes happen in the field when somebody digs a signal and finds a piece of iron.....they may remove the iron and find another object under it which can lead them to believe their particular detector has hit on the object under the iron.In reality the detector has registered the piece of iron.....it is just good fortune that there may be a more desirable object underneath.
 
I was kind thinking along these lines that no detector would do it, but was hoping somebody had a xyz detector and reported that they didn't have any problem picking up the dime under the tab. So it looks like to get my silver I will need to do some cleaning in the park, who knows maybe I will get some of that gold along with the silver.

I guess I could look at it from the good side, if I can't get it nobody can. :lol: Maybe I could get shirt made up with that saying on it.

Really appreciate all the comments.

Ron in WV
 
My curiousity got the best of me today and decided to try the test since I recently picked up a 5x10 Elliptical for my Vaquero and have only used it about an hour so far. I mostly hunt CW Relics, but I am getting a little more into coin hunting. Here are the results I got:

I had the same set up as Ron with the pulltab. I first used the Vaquero with the stock 8x9 coil. No response on a dime, but quarter responded with a slight, broken tone. Then I decided to run the coil the opposite direction like an X pattern (run it the length of the pulltab) no response on the dime, but the quarter responded with a single tone while coil moved left to right only. I then changed over to the 5x10 Elliptical and repeated the same steps. First direction with the 5x10 resulted in broken response on the dime and a clear tone on the quarter when the coil moved left to right only. Then changed pattern (length of the pulltab) and the dime and quarter both responded well while swinging both directions. The slower I moved the coil the louder the tone was. This is going to be an awsome coil!

For anyone interested, I also tried the Vaquero supertuned and the results were the same. I also cut one tab in half with no different results.

Next, I went and got my first detector, a '96 model Whites Classic SL (this made the 5th time it has been turned on) just to see what it would do. The dang thing responded to the dime and quarter in all directions with very clear signals. The only explanation I have is the difference in the Kh, it runs a 6.59 if i remember correctly. Still scratching my head on this and I guess it will be going coin hunting with me from now on!

In this test, I used 3 different, but simular pulltabs. With the Vaquero all three tabs disc. out at the mark past Tab (dont think that is normal) With the Whites Classic SL, each tab disc. out at a different range, almost a 1/4" apart on the adj. knob.

I wanted to try my faithful Tesoro Sidewinder today, but it finally had to go back in for repairs after 16 years, I will test it later.

Ron, thanks for starting this as I have learned a couple of things today!
 
Why do you not bury the items in the ground and then do the test again.This is the only real way of getting a more accurate conclusion from a test.It is a shame to pick one detector over another if the test is not performed under realworld conditions.It seems as you have a good combination of detectors though....no single detector can do everything so its always good to search the same area with two different machines particularly if the frequencies are considerably different.Good hunting for the new year.:thumbup:
 
Nauti Neil said:
Why do you not bury the items in the ground and then do the test again.This is the only real way of getting a more accurate conclusion from a test.It is a shame to pick one detector over another if the test is not performed under realworld conditions.It seems as you have a good combination of detectors though....no single detector can do everything so its always good to search the same area with two different machines particularly if the frequencies are considerably different.Good hunting for the new year.:thumbup:
I have found that "Fresh Buried" test gardens with depths beyond 4 to 5" just don't work until they have seasoned for a year or so (well lets say they don't give decent results).

Mark
 
It all depends what type of ground you search....if it is ploughed land you search which is freshly disturbed the test is quite accurate.There are also simple methods of placing objects in a test bed without disturbing the ground in a way that will affect test results.
 
Nauti Neil said:
It all depends what type of ground you search....if it is ploughed land you search which is freshly disturbed the test is quite accurate.There are also simple methods of placing objects in a test bed without disturbing the ground in a way that will affect test results.

I've tried to just dig a plug with a soil knife, that didn't work! So, then I tried my homemade plugger. its cuts the plug in one piece, then puts in back in one piece, the results was about the same.

Mark
 
Sorry for another long post. Yesterday I dug a small plug, placed the same quarter at 6 inches, same pulltab at 3 inches in wet soil. Tested the Vaquero with the 8x9 stock coil and the 10" Elliptical, no response from either coil when swinging the short width of the tab. Changed my swing pattern to run the length of the tab and response was one click from both coils from right to left (totally opposite from the previous test on top of the ground which was left to right) Supertuned again made no difference.

Yesterday, I forgot to mention that once you get that faint signal or click try the "Tesoro wiggle" as I have seen it referred to, which is basiclly holding the coil over the target and moving the coil quickly left to right no more than 2 inches if there is a good target there it will begin to respond with a better tone. I am sure most have heard of this, but for the ones that have not it is another trick in your arsenal. I'm courious if any other detectors will do this?

Now for the kicker, while standing there looking at the plug scratching my head again, I knew there had to be a way to pick that quarter up below that tab. The answer I found is to angle the coil at about a 45 degree angle and that quarter stuck out like a sore thumb. You can angle down to about 30 degrees, but there is where it starts to disappear again. So, I guess I will now disc out tabs to the point that there is just a slight signal and angle the coil to see if anything is under it while coin hunting.

Last, but not least the Whites Classic SL picked up the quarter once again in either swing direction with no problem at all. Has got to be the difference in frequency? Maybe somebody can chime in on the frequency question.
 
smokey63 said:
Sorry for another long post. Yesterday I dug a small plug, placed the same quarter at 6 inches, same pulltab at 3 inches in wet soil. Tested the Vaquero with the 8x9 stock coil and the 10" Elliptical, no response from either coil when swinging the short width of the tab. Changed my swing pattern to run the length of the tab and response was one click from both coils from right to left (totally opposite from the previous test on top of the ground which was left to right) Supertuned again made no difference.

Yesterday, I forgot to mention that once you get that faint signal or click try the "Tesoro wiggle" as I have seen it referred to, which is basiclly holding the coil over the target and moving the coil quickly left to right no more than 2 inches if there is a good target there it will begin to respond with a better tone. I am sure most have heard of this, but for the ones that have not it is another trick in your arsenal. I'm courious if any other detectors will do this?

Now for the kicker, while standing there looking at the plug scratching my head again, I knew there had to be a way to pick that quarter up below that tab. The answer I found is to angle the coil at about a 45 degree angle and that quarter stuck out like a sore thumb. You can angle down to about 30 degrees, but there is where it starts to disappear again. So, I guess I will now disc out tabs to the point that there is just a slight signal and angle the coil to see if anything is under it while coin hunting.

Last, but not least the Whites Classic SL picked up the quarter once again in either swing direction with no problem at all. Has got to be the difference in frequency? Maybe somebody can chime in on the frequency question.

Very interesting results, actually my first thought was the coil angle deal and try to get under the tab. I rigged up a shoe box before the stick and tried the angled coil and didn't have any luck with either of my detectors.
With the angled coil how high could you run the disc up and still read the coin?

Ron in WV
 
Top