Should Hookah divers be certified.... YES

[scubapirate]

Ok yes I am going to do this... Open up this debate.... debate is the wrong word as it is not really up for debate.... You are a fool if you Hookah dive without proper training.. END of story.

I answered a post regarding what certification is recommended SSI or PADI... it was quickly answered by some members who immediately implied to us, to skip any formal SCUBA training and go straight for the Hookah system. As a professional dive instructor I was shocked and this made me angry. Perhaps I misunderstood their posts (hopefully I did) about how good diving with a Hookah is, and I agree that there are benefits from diving with either a Hookah and or a Scuba Unit. I am not disputing or interested in discussing that, I am bringing up the underlying issue to the Hookah Divers that feel they should not have proper dive training before using such a device.

Even the very basic PADI "Scuba Diver" brings you through 3 pool sessions and 2 open water dives. During these sessions you are expected to master 44 or more different skills to pass this course. Each and every one of these skills are in place for one reason and one reason only.... "to save your life" period. This does not include the two dozen other hazards one is taught to be aware of while diving safely. Feel free to argue to me intelligently on how anyone without any and or each of these skills are not putting themselves at an unnecessary risk.

Please find one of many great articles regarding Hookah Diving.http://www.mast.tas.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Hookah-article-.pdf
This article does not bash Hookah Diving.... it stresses the hazards of diving with such a device without proper training.

I started this post so I could educate anyone who is reading this forum and thinking of getting into the wonderful world of diving, in hope that they will take the proper steps to ensure they are doing it properly and safely..... that is all.

cheers....

 

[KinTN]

I personally believe that it is the inalienable right of every person to do whatever they want to do to themselves so long as they cause no harm to others. If you want to hooka with a redneck rig while stoned on crack, Have At It. Just don't expect the taxpayers to pick up your funeral bills.

That said, I gotta agree with your upfront statement: Evolution In Action.
Or, how God's Laws enforce themselves without any help from any mere mortal.


There's too many idiots in the world as it is imo.

 

[mudpuppy]

Your kidding right? Training on how to breath?

Just watch a few youtube vids, strap on some cinderblock weights, shove the bubbly end of the hose in your blowhole, and over the side you go for fun and profit!

How hard do the Scuba certified trainers laugh when a guy walks into the shop and asks about hookah training? How come theres no certified Hookah organizations/trainers? Probably because just about any idiot can breath air out of a hose and live to tell about it..?...Hell, at this rate, we will need safety classes on how to use waders, along with certified instructors, and required self inflatable neck rings in case we get in too deep...

I bet more guys drown each year in waders than in Scuba or Hookah combined! from the sounds of it, more folks drown driving through a flooded roadway every year than all Scuba, Hookah and Waders combined...so avoiding drowning isnt the issue is it?....! I'm just saying...its hard to teach common sense, but maybe a PADI trainer can get paid for the attempt..

(of course this is a bit of satire to inspire a lively debate, fueled by Nyquil.)
Mud

 

[scubapirate]

The problem is that people come to these forums and look for advise from people with experience in diving etc... They take advise from mostly unqualified experts and do something dangerous like diving without training.
Mudpuppy... I resent you say this is about money... its not.. its about your safety. I am sure you can find an instructor friend to give you lessons for free... I do it all the time on my own time.

 

[GeorgeinSC]

There are plenty of Fools in this World. Diving without training is just one indication that one is a Fool. Does not matter to me if it is Hooka or Scuba or Hard hat diving.

I had a great guy but one Hard Noses SOB for a Scuba Instructor. Thought the man was going to work us to death. He intended to make sure that anyone who went thru one of his courses could handle any emergency that might arise while diving.

Of course that just scratches the surface of Fools. They drive Drunk, Text while driving, Jay Walk across busy streets, wind up killing themselves with a variety of Foolish tricks.

Maye it is just Natures way of thinning the Herd. As long as the Fools do not harm anyone else then let them go do as they please.

 

[mudpuppy]

Let me apologize for offending you scubapirate..was not what I intended...Of course anybody who thinks they want to go subsurface should get the proper training for safetys sake...

The problem with 'certifications'...some of the people that have them really shouldnt, but they go to the dive shop and get 'certified' even though its obvious they should not left alone in a wading pool, around any dock, anywhere near a boat...but whip out that CC, take the class and poof! Congratulations! you're a Diver!..

.May I ask, out of all the people you have personally trained, how many of them did you wash out and just say, "for your own sake, I cannot in good conscience proceed with this certification"? Has to be at least 10% of them right? Thats probably a low estimate considering the overall health of the average person wanting to be a diver?...

A guy could say "your a fool if you dont have such and such safety certified training"...from handguns to motorcycles...yet there are plenty of certified fools out there anyway in all genres where a bit of skill and attention is required?...

I just dont see many paid trainers washing out the 'uncertifiable'...bear with me here while I make a leap...down at the local Vo-tech they have a Truck driving class where you go and get your CDL in 6weeks...I talked to the instructor, I asked, "how many students have you scrubbed out of this program on account of they just could not handle a truck"?...answer was: "just one, in 10yrs!" They seemed quite proud of their instructing prowess! Same question should be asked of all trainers supplying 'certifications'.....

So whos more dangerous? a guy with a hookah, or the guy driving a semi down the road, or the instructor/certifier who says they are both good to go?
Mud

 

[joe69]

With a hookah one would loose sense of time or depth I have seen ads for airline extensions for them and in little letters states only for exp. divers .I am cert. to 100ft open and know the steps to take coming back up , the un trained do not and the bends are not something to fool with or sudden loss or air . 100 feet is a long distence when your trying to get air [ just my opinion ]

 

[scubapirate]

Thank you for your comments Mudpuppy. When someone questions a dive instructors motive for teaching and indicating it is only to make money, I take offense. Yes it is the way we make our livings, I bet you do not see a lot of well off instructors out there, we would say it is more of a personal "life style" than anything else. We mostly live day to day,,, especially down south. It also takes a lot of time, money and dedication to become an Instructor. So when we teach a skill, yes we get paid... just like you at your job. Oh yea we refund the $ for the incomplete course.

As per students washing out. Yes its happens, from my personal experience it happens for three reasons. 1, Not Interested, They were taking it for a spouse or something other than they wanted to be there, so they really weren't interested in succeeding. 2, Phobias. it takes a lot of time and practice to get over a Phobia. 3, Time, some students need the extra time and practice to achieve a successful passing grade.
I have been fortunate to work with companies that if a student is behind, we can add more skill classes as necessary to have that student complete the mandatory skills. So the number of students washing out are low because of this. The students who do not finish generally fall under #1 & 2. Yes I have failed students to there dismay, but with PADI we are all linked together in a network so if I get a diver who comes to me that had been certified and it turns out this diver does not have the skills to dive, it is reported to PADI and that certifying instructor is audited. So as you see one can not just give out certs or your teaching status will be evoked.

I hope this clarifies your misconceptions of Scuba Instructors.

As I said in my last post, what I don't like is unqualified people telling readers on these forums who look to us for advise to run to a store, buy gear and forgo professional dive training and not be guilty if god forbid something ever happened to them. If someone wants to do this, well thats evolution, But there is a big difference having someone going and doing it on their own and advising someone to go do it, telling them it's safe.

 

[dobbratacus]

What is shocking is someone developed a rig that lets folk dive all day long with never having to pay a professional a dime. And only pay for gas to run their equipment. Everyone sells gas, who has a dive compressor? No certification is required and none is needed. Instruction, yes, certification, no.. Why do we have certified hairdressers, certified nail stylists, certified masseuses, and on and on? Because someone, the Government, saw a way to make money. Certified professional instructors became certified because they had to. It was not voluntary. This is the last forum in the world to be calling for more government infringement on anything. Before you know it someone will be demanding a safety guy to watch our every move on every body of water, who is that gonna benefit?

 

[togamac]

Oh Boy! I'm gonna get in trouble here. You didn't say it but I'm inferring that you mean "everybody" should get certified if they're going to use a Hookah. Sort of like "everybody" should have driver training if they're going to drive, or "everybody" should be a vegetarian because red meat clogs our arteries, or "everybody" should get the optional insurance when they rent a car. I have a problem with being lumped in with "everybody".

I'm a careful person, never had driver training, but have never gotten a ticket for a moving violation and never had an at-fault accident in 58 years of driving. (I can here you doing the math!) I do eat red meat, but I don't eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner seven days a week. And, the guy at the truck rental place and I almost came to blows because I wouldn't sign up for his optional insurance for $50. He was very insulting! I did bring the truck back unscathed. Experience has made me very confidant in my ability to do most anything safely.

Long story short, I am going diving with my home-made Hookah this year and I'm 99% sure it is not going to kill me because I will do it safely. If you're young and are not sure of your limitations, take Scubapirate's advice and get certified. If you're young and cocky, at least go on the web, learn from the experiences of other Hookah divers, and practice at shallow depths before going too deep.

(Disclosure statement: I was SCUBA certified, in 1966 but I'm sure there are probably several hundred more things since then that you have to know to be certified nowadays. I'll look those up on the web.)

 

[scubapirate]

Dobbratacus... You are misinterpreting my original post... no where did I say that Hookah divers must or should be certified by law. Please read carefully. This is what I posted.

"As I said in my last post, what I don't like is unqualified people telling readers on these forums who look to us for advise, to run to a store, buy gear and forgo professional dive training and not be guilty if god forbid something ever happened to them. If someone wants to do this, well thats evolution, But there is a big difference having someone going and doing it on their own and advising someone to go do it, telling them it's safe."

That is what I posted. Honesty as far as I know, there is no current law that even forbids uncertified Scuba Diving in the USA... unless it is a local or State law. Thankfully it is highly self regulated because of liability reasons. If you want to go jump in the water with your own Scuba or Hookah gear without training.... go for it, godspeed... just don't ill advise anyone else to do the same.

You say quote "Instruction, yes, certification, no". Well who exactly do you want instructing you?? Some friend of a friend who says he knows everything about diving. Or someone who has proven that they can actually put you through the ringer to the point you are a competent diver and will not put yourself at risk.?? Why would you go through competent proper instruction without getting certified?? Funny thing... find a couple of good rings and you will have paid the cost of getting certified! Ever think of that?

Browniesmarinegroup.com is one of the largest manufactures of Hookah units. Here is a few cut an pastes from their online owners manual:

STOP!
Before using this system or engaging in any underwater activities you must ensure:
1) you are in good physical health
2) you are in good mental health
3) you have been properly trained
4) you know the potential risks of diving

WARNING: IMPROPER USE OF ANY UNDERWATER DIVING EQUIPMENT CAN RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH. DO NOT DIVE WITHOUT PROPER TRAINING.

In the interest of sharing the most accurate and up-to-date information on accepted diving practices, Brownie’s Third Lung has teamed up with Scuba-Training.net to provide free online dive training with the purchase of each Surface Supplied Hookah System.

AFTER THE ONLINE COURSE IS COMPLETED
It is time to visit your local dive store for the in-water training phase.

This manufacture insist you get certified....They even give you FREE certification......it is a shame if the local company who sold you their equipment does not insist on the same.....

Thank you for your comments... hopefully everyone will think twice about this.... Cheers...

 

[dobbratacus]

I understand where you are coming from. But, if it's so important then why not put it online for all to benefit. The only people that I' m aware of that offer anything free normally hit you up front with an incredible markup of whatever they are selling. You can't pay more for a float, a motor, and a compressor then what they charge. I think it's great marketing. Been around since Adam and Eve . Anywho, I'm certified. Every person that has dove with me has been instructed by me. Less than 20 feet and it hasn't been a problem. Never panic, never hold your breath on the way up, lose sight of me you go to the surface. I know one thing though, very very seldom do you see a hookah for sale on Craigslist. You want Scuba gear, you can probably buy it somewhere near the Mojave desert. But if I knew of someone that lost a ring in 40 plus feet of water I'd be renting some scuba gear. Now that's called stirring the pot

 

[Tony]

I got my certification many years ago and I have recently moved to a Hookah setup and I really enjoy it.
I didn't do a refresher but spent a lot of time going over the SCUBA basics and the situations that may cause death or serious injury just as a friendly reminder !

All of my hookah searches follow some principles;

1. I try to have a topside buddy if possible
2. I only hunt in very good visibility
3. I never hunt in rivers unless vis is good
4. I never hunt in strong currents or where entanglement poses a risk
5. My bottom depths are nearly always 5 metres max (no deco times)
6. I never hunt in any area where there are watercraft
7. I follow a strict equipment maintenance schedule
8. I wear a freedive watch which has current depth and "downtime" (engine on time)
9. I am very mindful of weather conditions
10. I shorten my hookah hose with heavy duty velcro so that my max depth is about 5m. A shorter hose also ensures that the floating hookah isn't pushed into any waves/breakers by onshore wind.
11. I practice removing mask and reg underwater
12. I spend time underwater thinking "what else could go wrong and what will I do about it". If I run out of fuel (unlikely as I always fill before a search and know I have 4 hours run time) then I will hear the engine quit and with another 4 or 5 breaths left in the hose, I can ascend the short distance to the surface.

I may have missed some other points.

Interestingly, a lot of SCUBA deaths or injuries are due to people in poor physical condition (heart problems / medications), etc.

Safe hunting,
Tony
PS...I use the Airline hookah and the quality of the unit is outstanding. I never even considered making a unit for myself. They have an excellent online SCUBA/HOOKAH pdf which should be read no less than 50 times.

 

[mudpuppy]

Hilarious! Well, Scubapirate, I hope we didnt dissapoint with the feedback! You knew when you posted it would open right up! Good stuff and I enjoyed the input!
Mud

 

[Jason in Enid]

Yes, I think anyone using a hookah should have scuba training prior to using. No, there is no law requiring any training at all (for hookah or scuba), but the problem with our litigious society is that some idiot dies or is permanently crippled from the bends from a hookah can very quickly lead to mandated training and certifications.

Is it hard to use one? Of course not, it's breathing from the end of hose AS LONG AS EVERYTHING IS GOOD. Dive training isn't there for when everything is fine, it's for when crap goes wrong. Training is to teach you how to calmly fix small problems on the bottoms instead of panicking, creating more problems and leading to serious injury or death.