shipwreck coin??............ (long post)

[julesjunk]

A friend of mine received this coin as a gift some time back. He asked me to post it in a few places for guidance as to how to authenticate it. Here's an email copy from my friend in response to my asking if there was any paperwork that came with it:

Nope. No paperwork authenticating where it came from.
It was bought from Big Blue Wreck Salvage, Inc.
Mel King and Faye Asano are the 2 names on the busines card.
They are based in Denver.
Their website, http://www.artifactexchange.com/bigblue/index.html has been under construction forever.
They re-sell coins from the Atocha wreck for a bunch of money - a lot more than this coin was bought for.
That and the fact that no authenticating paperwork came with it makes me think there's something "wrong" with the coin.
If the coin did in fact come from the Conception, I would guess that it would be worth a lot more.
Maybe it's a fake???
Maybe these 2 guys pay homeless folks (in Denver) to pound strange markings in to round globs of silver and then sell them to unsuspecting tourists for a huge profit????

This is the ship it's supposed to of came from:
Nuestra Senora De La Conception (ship)
Wrecked in 1638 on
Saipan, Marianas Islands.

There was even a writeup in National Geographic on this wreck. Just wondering if any of you knew a reliable source that could authenticate the coin. It's defeinitely made of silver, and rings in as a dollar coin on my MXT.
Thanks in advance for any help/comments.
Regards,
Jules

 

[Macaco]

I've never seen that many counterstrikes on a coin. Wow.

What's strange to me is that the coin is round and not irregular like a cob from the early 17th century would be. Though it could be a milled coin from that period or earlier it looks more like pillar dollar round. Pillar dollars didn't appear before the 18th century.

The look of the silver is consistent with silver that's been submerged in salt water for a long time then cleaned with electrolosys.

If you have acces to a high power microscope look at the surface of the coin and you should see a relief that looks like mountains and valleys and deep pits. Even the smooth spots should look like that. When the silver turns to silver sulfide the electrolosys process lifts a lot of material off the surface but it's very uneven.

Please post the dimensions of the coin in millimeters (width and thickness). If you have a small scale please post the exact weight in grams.

Some close up photos of the edge of the coin would be helpful too. By that I mean photos, edge-on from different areas of the rim.

<<>>

I did some research and discovered that the marks are not counterstrikes (or, more correctly, 'counterstamps') but 'chopmarks'.

From an article found on the web:

http://www.coinmall.com/CSNA/guam2.htm

<blockquote>"Many of the coins counterstamped by the Spaniards also bore chopmarks. A chopmark was a counterstamp by either a Chinese merchant or banker. The Chinese placed chopmarks on silver coins as a defense against counterfeit coins as a chopmark authenticated a coin as being genuine."</blockquote>

Cheers,

 

[julesjunk]

Steve,
Thanks for the very informed response. Here are three pics of the rim. Sorry for the quality, as there is no natural light available this morning. (overcast, and rainy) NOT that I am complaining.<p>Coin is approx. 41-42mm in diameter. Rim thickness hovers fairly consistently right around 2mm, and it weighs 23g's.
When looking at the coin in person, the rim suggests somewhat of a "rope" pattern.
Will attempt to secure access to a microscope sometime this week.<p>
Thanks again for your efforts, and interest.
Regards,
Jules

 

[brookside_bob]

Jules, Thanks for posting the pics.

Steve, the coin is mine.

Jules came over to my house a few weeks ago and "liberated' a bunch of coins from the front and back yards, including the Euro my wife or I dropped there a few years ago, after a trip to Ireland. Ah well finders keepers...lol...

Was fascinating watching him work. I showed him the silver coin which a sister-in-law bought for me as a gift while on a trip to San Diego a few months ago. She paid $75 for it.

As I recall the National Geogreaphic article and the on-line site talking about the Conception salvage off of Saipan didn't mention silver coins, or mentioned in passing. This doesn't mean the salvors didn't find a hoard of coins or cobs, but one would think it would be mentioned if they did.

Seventy five dollars for a coin from that wreck doesn't seem right. That's why I said to Jules that the coin seems "wrong".

If anyone can help further identify the coin it would be much appreciated.

Bob...