Settings...for digging in iron

[christian_99]

Hello everyone, been keeping track of the great finds and have now been a proud owner of a T2 for a few weeks. So far I only have about 4 hours on the machine and am a little bit concerned. At one site I hunted the machine did very well in pulling targets from an old house site. Average depth was about 4 to 6 inches...

Now fast forward to today, I had the machine in a hunted/ pounded out site (camp) with tons of square nails and bits of square nails. I first did as suggested from the forum, run it in sens 60/ disc 10 sounds 2+ and all I got was some really nice signals mixed in with the iron sound. These were all false signals. I operated in this mode and switched over to the dp mode as that tends to blank out nails and pick up buttons however the same thing happened.

So for a step by step process....what am I doing wrong? If I lower the sensitivity then I might as well bring out my Tesoro Vaquero and Cibola (My Trusted Camp Hunters....) Any and all recommendations would be appreciated. The soil conditions are probably similar to what you have experienced (Keith in Ga), as well as our friends across the big pond...(Atlantic).

The object of hunting this pounded out camp is to find buttons in and amongst the iron. I have tried without success the Minelab Explorer...and other machines and so far the best are the Tesoros...to give you all a bit of background.

Any and all assistance would be appreciated!!!! Thanks and keep up th good work with the informative posts!

 

[coenwolf]

try using 4 tone it works well for me in the u.k ,and you can pump up the sens and still hear the iron with it .your problem is down to inexperience with the machine ,so try a easier site till you get more used to it ,also are you ground balancing and fast grabbing every ten minutes or so ,might need to f/g more often with that much iron .the other thing it might be is your headphones if there not up to scratch you wont hear the different tones properly .so just try taking them out for a half an hour and using the machines speaker see if that helps

 

[jeff@middlesex]

Personally after a really good fast grab ground balance I would raise your disc. If thats the type of hunting your doing then there is no need to hear all the iron sounding a low tone. Raise it up to around 30. It sounds like the peeps of good 2+ tones your hearing in the iron is just the edage of trash and not enough signal body to sound like a good target. I have been using dp mode as well and it does help to hear around the iron a bit better. Also put your sens to about 80 if you can this will also add some more tone to your signals. 4 hours is just getting warmed up just keep at it and you will be rewarded. Remember in 2+ tone your only listening for an increase in pitch. Nothing else matters. dp tone is a little tougher but again solid clean 1-2 tones is what your looking for.

 

[MattR]

Hi Chris! How about a less aggressive set up?
(With respect to all other forum members recomendations)

Please try it and report back.

Motion Sens. at 60.

Discrim. at 40.

2+ audio mode.

[size=medium]SET YOUR GROUND BALANCE MANUALLY TO 60.[/size]

Now go find those buttons......Good luck....MattR.UK.

 

[christian_99]

What setting do I put sens in the manual side? 60 and what about disc discrimination the same?

Also on the all metal side, do I run the disc in that area high, and in the discrimination setting at 40? Again, the buttons are mixed in with the iron. It is all a bunch of iron soup literally, however the tesoro's have been able to pull some VERY NICE relics from this area from within the soup....

With the settings of disc at forty, will this allow me to hear the feint brass sound mixed in with the large square nails both on the surface as well as moderately deep say to 8 inches in mineralized soil?

Thanks Everyone...

 

[christian_99]

There are two sensitivity settings one for all metal and one for discrimination, what would you recommend these settings to be in this highly mineralized/ ironized area?

Thank you!
C.

 

[christian_99]

How deep are you digging signals and how mineralized/ magnetized is your soil?



Also with the two sensitivities one for all metal and one for disc what do you recommend those settings at?

Thank you!

 

[jeff@middlesex]

When I GB my numbers are around 63. I never use all metal. My sights are a blanket of square nails and old rusted farm equipment parts like plow points and broken wagon tongues. I would never move more than 5'in all metal.

 

[coenwolf]

you can smooth it out a bit by increasing your a/m setting to one point above the disc g/b setting ,matt r's method would also work .but in reality i think you need more time spent on just messing with the machine first as you need to learn it a bit more

 

[Rick in J-ville]

Thanks to a great tip.
For openers, don't let the coil size intimidate you in iron as a DD works nice in trash. Try just 1 tone and back discrimination down. The book says 40 will cancel iron, but higher disc settings like that will silence too much and begins the masking process. Turn disc down to say half that. Set sensitivity as high as possbile (over 60). Keep in mind, not discing up to 40, It WILL be quite choppy sounding in iron (nail blips), but listening closely good items come in clearer and often even will be a repeatable signal. Backing disc down allows nails + small iron to break up (stactic & not repeatable). This setting may sound "noisy" or annoying at first, but try it.
Another suggestion would be to put your Tesoros away for awhile. You know what they can do & trust them, but they operate far different. It takes awhile to learn the language of the T-2 and sadly many people sell them after quick backyard trials before even learning much about it. I guess it's easy to fall back on the detectors we already HAVE learned and call the best...
Liam P.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Matt,

I have run some air tests with the following setup:
Sensitivity=60
Discrimination=10
Target distance from the coil will vary from about 3" to 6"

The multiple targets are:
* A dime and a nail
* The dime and a nail in the same plane. Their plane is also parallel to the plane of the coil.
* The nail is oriented so that the length of the nail is perpendicular to the center strip of the coil when passing under the coil (The end of the nail passes under the center strip before the middle of the nail.). I note that this orientation of the nail gives the greatest response.
* The dime and nail and about 3"(7.6cm) apart center to center.
* The dime and nail are arranged so that they pass under the coil with greatest difference in time between their passing under the center strip.
* The first sweep passes the dime first followed by the nail.
* The return sweep passes the nail first followed by the dime.

RESULTS USING TONES=2+
The T2 gives a two distinct responses regardless and essentially independent of how fast the targets are moving under the coil and at various distances from the coil. The nail is clearly identified as iron. The other target is clearly not iron

Note that the visual ID indicates a pull tab and not a dime. This suggests that the visual ID is averaging.

RESULTS USING TONES=3
The T2 still tends to give two distinct responses. The iron sound is clear identified as iron, but the dime tends to produce the mid-tone audio response instead of the dime response. Occasionally, the dime response is generated, more so as the sweep speed is increased.

Note that the visual ID indicates a pull tab and not a dime. This suggests that the visual ID is averaging (sampling process).

INCREASE THE SENSITIVITY TO 80
The results are about the same.

SIMILAR TESTING WITH THE EXPLORER II
Because of the slow recovery time of the Explorer the target sound is "mushy". You do get the sense that there are multiple targets under the coil, but you do not generally hear the dime response. The target visual ID shows high conductivity (because the dime and nail both have high conductivity), but the cursor is towards the middle of the screen suggesting target averaging.

Are these findings about what you would expect? Your thoughts on these testing results would be appreciated.

HH,
Glenn

 

[Captain Kirk]

Liam,

I made a post below about some air testing results. Those test were with a nail separated by about 3" from a 2" nail. I find that with TONES=3 and the discrimination is set to 40, that I do not hear the iron and the dime gives a mid tone instead of a high tone. This is probably because of averaging. I would probably not dig the target.

But, if I set the discrimination to 10, then I hear both the nail and the dime. The dime is still a mid tone because of the averaging, but at least I know that the nail is there. This catches my attention because I know that averaging is taking place. I would probably dig the target.

What are your thoughts on this?

HH,
Glenn

 

[Rick in J-ville]

is taking place in either case. That's sort of the reason I didn't mention keeping a keen watch on the LCD screen mumbers as much as there's always multiple items under the coil in heavy trash. The method passed onto me relys more on audio than what the number is. generating a good or clearer signal amid all the iron pops + static. One tone is more strait forward and eliminates all the different tones that can throw you off sometimes. It avoids things like you mentioned: dropping high tones into mid & such. Maybe try your same airtests on disc 20 and see what happens. Will still number average, but usually the nail will sound *worse* or broken there. So, again for me it's all about the audio. Not sure if that answered your question, but worth a try.
Cheers,
Liam P.

 

[Captain Kirk]

Liam,

I did not really have a question. I was only pointing out that if you have to much discrimination one might mistake a good target because of the averaging effect. With the Discrimination at 10, then you hear both targets and you can be aware that the second target has been averaged. With the Discrimination at 40, then you hear only one target that does not sound like what it really is.

HH,
Glenn

 

[christian_99]

Capt, I remember reviewing your Explorer posts earlier in the year, did you keep your T2? Also what settings are you using for sites as described by me without to many false signals? Thanks!

 

[Captain Kirk]

christian_99,

Yes, I kept the T2 and am committed to learning how to use it. I have four detectors. They are White XLT, White Surf Master PI, Explorer II and the T2. The Explorer is, and probably will continue to, be my primary detector. I am still well down the learning curve on the T2, but I can see that it has a real possibility of being a good companion to the Explorer. I bought the T2 on 10/14/2006 and have perhaps 20 hours in the field because weather here in Utah is not conducive to hunting.

As I have mentioned in a prior post, I have mainly hunted in areas that have been essentially "picked clean" by several Explorer hunters, including myself. The objective was to see how many good targets are left that are being masked by trash. Thus far I have found not one good target missed by the Explorers. But, that is not a fair test since I am modestly proficient with the Explorer, but a real neophyte using the T2.

I have been doing a lot of experimenting with the T2 in an attempt to determine which settings are best for my environment. I made a recent post of some air testing (I know that this may not be a very good measure of any detector behavior where it really counts). I now believe that minimal discrimination is the most advantageous if you can stand the abundant iron hits. This is because of the very fast recovery of the T2 compared to the Explorer. With the a nail next to a dime (3" separation)I get the following results:

Discrimination=10, Sounds=3
I can clearly hear both targets. But, the dime does not sound like a dime. It sounds like a pull tab. The visual ID is also pull tab.

Discrimination=40, Sounds=3
I hear only one target. The sound and visual ID are both still a pull tab.

The conclusion is that I would have ignored the targets with discrimination at 40, but would have dug the targets with the discrimination set to 10.

I am still working to better understand the rationale for Sensitivity and Tones setting.

HH,
Glenn

 

[christian_99]

Interesting,

With a disc at 10 in this one forgotten camp that I have mentioned, there are far too many signals in this particular area so in using the 1+ at say a disc of 25, I am able to hear the individual target and it seperates it better. The iron nails for the most part or pieces of iron are blanked out and only the larger higher ferrous signals are detected. Although I will dig nails, I will also dig those signals with a higher conductivity as you are able to discern by the robustness of the signal as to whether it is diggable or not. So it is a setting which would take time to get used to but also afford the best possibility to dig some very good finds in trashy, ironized sites...in my opinion...

 

[Cody]

Glenn, have you considered some time using all metal? It can be a difficult but I will mentally stake off ares, say around a very old tree, and dig all targets. There was an area where I took different colors of golf tees and covered the ground with different detectors. I then dug all the targets to see what they were compared to what the machines indicated. I am reluctant to say my conclusion was that all targets should be dug. I am reluctant because there are areas where there is more trash than I want to dig through at my age. Back before discrimination I thought nothing of doing that but cannot make up my mind if discrimination is a blessing or curse to detectors.

 

[Steve(MS)]

Both a blessing and a cursing at the same time. I am like you, at my age I can't dig every signal so it does help but all metal goes deeper And one doesn't have to worry about separation if they dig it all. Time is a factor for all of us so we have to modify our strategy to compensate for a set amount of it. The areas I hunt it would take me many lifetimes to clear an area. The best approach IMO is to use as little disc as possible, learn the detector of choice and it's quirks. I think we are getting fast to the point of wanting new technology so that we can be sure that we are not leaving too much behind.
Steve(MS)

 

[Captain Kirk]

Cody,

I agree with Steve's comments. The biggest problem with digging around the old trees is getting through the roots. Also the ground seems to be harder there.

I might add another thought. First get the easy stuff before someone else gets there. When the easy stuff is gone, then you can concentrate on the more challenging targets.

Glenn