Sensitivity on E?

[utahshovelhead]

Howdy,
Id appreciate any info you can give me on this.
On my Explorer there were certain times that I would crank up the sensitivity to a point I knew was too high but I could still here the tonal sounds hit and dig some really deep stuff. I do not recommend that except for some certain conditions and conditioning of the user but my question is: With the E trac In one part of a property I am hunting I am getting like 6 as the suggested sensitivity rating...I can go manual up to about 19 with a lot of talk/chatter but still hear the Coin tones. Books Say's I will loose depth but I am not convinced of this. Do any of you who have been using your machine for a while abuse your sensitivity like that on the E?

thanks
utahshovelhead

 

[etracjoe]

Great question, one that I also would like the answer to. I have an old fairgrounds that the suggested sens is around 4-8 in some spots. When I turn it up, all hell breaks loose.

 

[Jack Flynn]

Ahhh apply a small coil and it will more than likely raise automatically by itself a lot, mid 20's or so. In manual I don't feel like I lose any depth at all just have to listen to more noise. It is deep too imo. I think it just goes against what an fbs system is really all about. So, smaller coil less noise higher sensitivity in auto per the less area it see's. Works great for me in auto and manual...........

 

[Ray-Mo.]

I have gotten better depth with the sen. jacked up a bit in man. in those places where auto drops in the basement.But as you say it will get very noisy if cranked to high and I think your separation of trash from good targets may suffer a little.It help if you have used the Explorers in a similar fashion and I find that your ears and brain can deal with a lot of extra noise once you get them conditioned to it,Ray.
PS A smaller coil is a big help in many of these types of situations.

 

[NiagracountyNY]

99% of the time I run Auto Sens Plus 3 . The times I will switch to Manaul 30 is when im In the woods or Fields.I find Auto plus 3 really works well tho in most locations.

 

[utahshovelhead]

Thanks for the RE Ray and jack,
Here is the thing...it is easy to dig there and I am POSITIVE that the targets are Deeeeeep. I just don't think that the small loop is going to get down 12 inches or more on this lot A layer of fill sits about 12-14 inches over all the original dirt. Right now i think all I can do is turn up the sens in manual and deal with the talk/chatter to gain depth. I can handle the extra digging but before I make a trial run at this I just wonder what others in that situation have tried. It worked out pretty well on the Explorer and I was getting to the layer I wanted. I did read that Andy said on highly unrealized ground a manual sens boosted to the point of false would give better depth (page 104) so if I go beyond that... the negative will be more fleecing... if that is the only caution then it only has to do with how much falling can my Brian work with...right?. I would appreciate your thoughts on that.

thanks
utahshovelhead

 

[Ray-Mo.]

My best advice is crank her up in increments while digging several targets and see what develops.You might try hign man. sen., all metal wide open screen in ferrous 2 tones and watch the numbers a bit on all high tones that break through the low iron grunts and will lock on with a very carefully executed Minelab Wiggle.I have found this gets me max depth in some locations.Also may want to try a SEF 12x15 or 15" WOT coil as well

 

[BeachBumm]

I run my sensitivity cranked nearly all the time. Having said that, I do use only SEF coils and they are much more stable, so running them cranked is very realistic. I also hunt for 6+ hours nearly everyday so I am very "in-tune" with my ET and can quickly discern a high conductor or gold range conductor through all of the constant chatter. At some locations the machine is very quiet and stable cranked with the SEF 6x8, but more often than not, I do have a fair bit of chatter. I also want to note that hunting near another detector that is also cranked will make it worse for both of you (unless the other one is a PI). If hunting near another detector make sure to noise cancel (which is always a good idea anyways) after their machine is on, nearby and cranked.

If you are still new to the ET, I highly recommend Auto +3 for a while. Eventually you will learn how to hear the good tones amongst the chatter and coax an iffy silver out. Remember to swing slowly (these processors are not fast like an F75, they need a little time to compute) and always thoroughly investigate all high conductor sounds, try hitting it from a little different angle, the detector is trying to tell you that there is something down there. Often times it is just Iron punching throug. If you get a target that looks like silver but doesn't sound real repeatable and iffy, switch over to quickmask and listen again, is it very clear now, less than 6"?? If so, look at target ID while in quickmask . . . that 12-46 you were seeing earlier . . now sounds great in quickmask, but the target ID now shows a fairly shallow target and 35-46 on the Visual ID. Over time you will learn to recognize these iron targets and move on. The exceptions are, you may have a silver next to a piece of iron..if that is the case, your quickmask will bounce between 35-46 and 12-46 (approx), dig those targets. If it stays rock solid in quickmask at 35-46 it is probably just iron. Any target deeper than 6" regardless of Visual ID could be an iffy silver just out of range, these are a roll of the dice (in an old area with killer deep silver coins? If so, dig it). Lastly, if you encounter a silver coin on it's side or next to other coins in a coin spill it may act really funny and bounce. I once heard a quick bleep-bleep and it came in at 12-28, being in an older area with few pull-tabs I dug it anyways, turns out it was a silver war nickel right next to a silver quarter in the same hole. The war nickel should have been 12-17 and the quarter 12-47 but when heard together I was not a solid signal (although it was repeatable) and the visual ID kind of averaged at 12-28. Was glad I dug that!

HH, Mark

 

[etracjoe]

Great advice Bumm, and worded very well. This is why I love this forum

 

[Digger]

You've gotten some excellent advice on the subject of Sensitivity. But I'd like to add a couple more thoughts..... Increasing Sensitivity will, sooner or later, add to the chatter produced by your detector. That amount depends on the ground conditions and the number of targets the coil is passing over at any given time. The amount you can "tolerate" and still maintain your sanity depends entirely upon the individual. The thing to keep in mind is that when you increase the sensitivity, you are increasing the signal strength being transmitted into the ground. That is good on single targets as it allows you to hunt deeper. But on areas that are congested with multiple targets, it can cause the signal to bounce back instead of penetrating. Kind of like having your high beams on in the fog.
Second point.... the Etrac uses 3 separate internal signal channels to identify targets. High, medium and low channels. In Auto mode, the Sensitivity of each channel is automatically set (by the electronics) to provide the best performance. (smooth signal and accurate TID) When running in AutoSensitivity, the left bar indicates the highest level that either the high, medium or low channel is capable of operating in, as determined by the electronics. The right bar indicates the average of those three channels. In other words, lets say that the Etrac has determined the best level of sensitivity for the high channel is 24, the medium channel is 14 and the low channel is 10. In this situation, the left bar would indicate a Sensitivity setting of 24, the highest channel setting. However, the right bar would indicate a 16, which is the mathmatical average of the three channels. Note that none of the three channels are actually set at 16. That is just the average of the three channels. When you switch to manual Sensitivity settings, the rules change. When you set your Sensitivity in manual mode, all three channels are set to the same level. For example, if you set your Sensitivity to 24, all three channels will be running at a level of 24. The left bar will now provide the actual manual setting. But the right bar will provide what the electronics have determined to be the "suggested" setting.
When running in manual Sensitivity, you are over-riding the Etrac's ability to determine the level where each channel operates most effectively. If the Etrac determines that ground conditions are adversely afffecting the performance, due to an improperly set channel level, having them "locked in" with manual settings will provide false signals and incorrect TID's.

Being able to tweak Auto-Sensitivity by anywhere from -3 to +3 allows me to run my Etrac a bit less sensitive or a bit more sensitive than the electronics suggest, and still maintain the 3 channel variations. Kind of like having the best of both worlds. By running mine at +3, I get the same 3 channel functionality as in the standard Auto mode, with the benefit of bumping up the Sensitivity by +3, "on the fly". JMHO HH Randy

 

[utahshovelhead]

Lets say that the ground is highly mineralized and not filled with tons of targets to analyze...now the only thing impeding the sensitivity is the highly mineralized ground...If I use the iron mask disc to push the edges of the x/y axis in to the discrimination range I then reduce the falsing of the mineralized soil so its not as noisy. But I still would have the sens down to 5, 6 or 7 in auto. If I wanted to get deeper what suggestions would you make other than jacking up the sens in Manual?

Thanks for any input,
utahshovelhead

 

[onemore]

... so read these posts over and over until it sinks in.

Then, go to your site, pick the deepest signal you can find in the heavy trash, and try picking it out in the lowest possible sensitivity. That will more or less tell you what your minimum should be. The rest is as the fella's said - train your ears!

Mike

 

[utahshovelhead]

Excellent info guys,
I appreciate your knowledge and that you are willing to share it
THANK YOU!

 

[captn_se]

there will be depth limitations with all machines, much less though if you're using a PI machine, but using one in the turf is just not feasible. If you're hunting in auto sens. in the single digits, don't expect to be pulling dimes out at 7-8". In highly mineralized ground, the maximum detection depth can vary with sensitivity values in the single digits, but oftentimes, you will be able to operate at a higher manual sens. than that. As others have said, it's a matter of being able to decipher noise/chatter from a good target. That will take hours of hunting til you get really accustomed to the differences. Auto sens. values will be always lower than your maximum usable sensitivity. I'll tell you why later. Ground mineralizatoin varies throughout the country. Guys who are using the SEF coils say they are getting more stable operation at higher sens. settings than they are with their stock coils. I have noticed that when using a smaller coil, I'm able to operate my sens. at a much higher value than with a standard 10-11" coil. With practice, you could dig dimes at 8-9" with an 8" coil in trashy ground.

The most important thing to understand is what is truly the source of the noise you're hearing. Is it ground minerals, hot rocks, lots of trash signals(iron, aluminum, etc.), EMI, or combinations of all of these. I will call these sources of magnetic interference. The more magnetic interference you have, the more auto sens. will drop the sens. level. Auto sens. mostly prioritizes noise free operation over depth. It's trying to make your machine run as noise/false free as possible, giving you more accurate target ID's, but sacrificing target detection depth. In addition, if your auto sens. is running at 6, using a +3 auto will not give very much more usable depth to your machine.

If hot rocks are a big problem, you can mask those out in your disc. They usually always hit along the highest conductive values on the smartscreen (CO 50). Andy's custom program deals with this. If your interference is EMI(if your machine is falsing/noisy without swinging the coil), then doing a noise cancel will quiet that source, allowing you to run at higher sens. values. If the interference is simply lots of trash targets, then using a smaller coil, and hunting very slowly, allowing yourself to hear each signal as you pass over it will help.

If you really want the most depth in a given area that has high amounts of magnetic interference, you're going to have to override the auto sens., use manual sens. to a level you can tolerate and still be able to tell the difference from noise/chatter and a good, deep signal. Take control of your machine, don't always rely on auto features, and you may be pulling coins from areas others ignored because of high interference.

HH,
CAPTN SE
Dan

 

[utahshovelhead]

Thanks Cap'n
That is about what I thought. I have been running an SX and an Ex II that way for some time in one particular spot (not all the time) but have not yet had enough time to see if the E works about the same way...Thank you for your input. The replys on this topic have been really good and i appreciate that there are so many who have put hours n hours into dialing in the machine.
Ill read over this a few times then try out some of the things Ive learned.

Good luck
utahshovelhead

 

[NiagracountyNY]

One thing I might Add..I ran an SE before my E-Trac..Altho somethings function the same,I found I trying to run the E-Trac like an explore or SE didnt work welll.Its a diffrent machine for sure.The Auto sens on the E-Trac works way better than it did on the SE for me.On the SE I ran ALL Metal/Ferrous Tones /Manual Sens..On the E-Trac I use conductive tones,Several discrim patterns and Auto Sens.I have learned to Trust the Auto sens to adjust the Computer as the Ground changes.I have sites that are in the woods,in the fields with No EMI trouble.I still find the mineralization causes to much falsing most times.And my big fear is Im gonna pump to much power into the ground on manual and miss a good target next to large iron.How much more depth in manaul sens would you get than Auto on a target in the ground???Not an Air test. Maybe an inch or 2? Some sites its worth running manual ,but i have learned to really trust that auto sens after many deep target signal comparrisons.The E-Trac is deff Not and Explorer or SE and trying to run them the same way didnt work for me.There have been many debates over the Auto verse manual Sens on the Explorer forum too if you want some good reading.Best of luck to you and HH

 

[EZrider]

Its that +3 in auto that really makes the ET shine. I have spent a considerable amount of time. Going through the various setups and filters over marked deeper targets. Once new users get enough time in on the ET. They will know what every setting does and how it relates to each other. Looking back on my first 30 hours with the ET. I only ran it with the stock settings and patterns. Now i find myself utilizing different patterns and adjusting settings on the fly. As walking from one area to another may completely change what the optimum settings would be. Sure the ET may be turn on and go. But to get the most out of what the machine can do. A person needs to utilize everything the machine has.

EZ

 

[Southwind]

I run in Auto +3 with a manual sens. of 29 for checking signals. Generally my auto sens. runs from 19 to 22. When I try to hunt with a manual sens of 29 there is just too much noise. Trash not minerals, and a lot of false'ing on iron.

 

[Digger]

I agree. If a person doesn't have a working knowledge of the available functionality, it is nearly impossible to max the performance at a specific site. One of the features that I've found to be of utmost importance is QuickMask. When I get an "iffy" signal in my modified coin program, I can definitely determine a "dig or not to dig" by momentarily going into my modified QuickMask mode. When the ferrous readings are unstable or register beyond a certain point, I just keep on sweeping. JMHO HH Randy

 

[CONDUCTOR7E]

Great info here! I have great luck with AUTO+3 but where conditions allow,I jack up the sensitivity on manual to a point that is tolerable due to falsing.