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SEF vs DD
- Thread starter daddyflea
- Start date
Tx and Rx windings, and the SEF is just a label for one type.
Some Double-D coil designs have a round shape, some very narrow and a pronounced elliptical shape, and all sorts of sizes in-between. In the end, there can sometimes be a little advantage between two different size and shape DD coils, such as the 10X12 SEF and 13" Ultimate, but with either choice they really should be used in sites that are more sparse in targets so as not to encounter too much target masking. They will both provide a little better depth on larger-size targets than a smaller size Concentric or DD, and in-the-end, they are just another search coil.
Any search coil chosen has to be a good match for the detector it is mounted to and the detector's adjustment functions and circuitry design, and you also have to factor in the weight, balance and handling of any search coil. Some detectors, for example, were designed specifically to work well with one type of search coils and shouldn't be used with a different type. Some manufacturers only make one type of coil for their detectors. Some do make models that work with both types, Concentric or Double-D, but that doesn't mean they work well with both types.
I had the same curiosity you asked about and in talking with several people who have used both, it's been a toss-up. Some preferred the 10X12 and about the same number favorer the 13" Ultimate. There were some, however, who also learned from the experience of investing in an over-sized search coil that it didn't provide the results they hoped for. "Depth." "Find deep coins" "Going inches deeper."
All sort of references to these topics we hear and read about, and all too often they are made by people who don't really have [size=small](or apparently don't have)[/size] ample experience afield to understand typical or practical coin depth, or who also don't understand the target masking. many hunt with a lot of Discrimination to not hear, or even know, the amount of problem rejected targets that are present in such a number that they can still mask the shallow-to-typical depth targets. Many times I read how someone wants a bigger coil to go deeper ... in a trashy environment! it just isn't going to happen.
Therefore, the real difference between the two coils you asked about is how well the 'feel' to you when in use for a good duration, how satisfied you are with the end performance from them, and if the are a good match for the detector you are using, the settings chosen, and the sites selected to hunt. Personally, I have very little use for larger-sized search coils. I worked a 10X12 DD and White's 12" Concentric to evaluate how they performed for me in the mineralized ground I hunt, if I chose one to use for cache hunting or specific searches for larger sized relics. I preferred the 12" Concentric and have one mounted on a spare lower rod for time I might want to use it.
I also have 13X15 DD coils for my two other preferred detectors, but in all cases, the larger coils only get called to service for specific use. I use some 'standard' size search coils for most typical low-target, open-area hunting, but prefer smaller than stock because they weigh less, balance better, and hunt in and around brush, building rubble and dense trash better, and those are the sites I prefer to hunt and which have rewarded me best for a good 40+ out of 50 years of detecting.
If you have the 10X12 SEF I wouldn't be to concerned about the 13" Ultimate.
Monte
Some Double-D coil designs have a round shape, some very narrow and a pronounced elliptical shape, and all sorts of sizes in-between. In the end, there can sometimes be a little advantage between two different size and shape DD coils, such as the 10X12 SEF and 13" Ultimate, but with either choice they really should be used in sites that are more sparse in targets so as not to encounter too much target masking. They will both provide a little better depth on larger-size targets than a smaller size Concentric or DD, and in-the-end, they are just another search coil.
Any search coil chosen has to be a good match for the detector it is mounted to and the detector's adjustment functions and circuitry design, and you also have to factor in the weight, balance and handling of any search coil. Some detectors, for example, were designed specifically to work well with one type of search coils and shouldn't be used with a different type. Some manufacturers only make one type of coil for their detectors. Some do make models that work with both types, Concentric or Double-D, but that doesn't mean they work well with both types.
I had the same curiosity you asked about and in talking with several people who have used both, it's been a toss-up. Some preferred the 10X12 and about the same number favorer the 13" Ultimate. There were some, however, who also learned from the experience of investing in an over-sized search coil that it didn't provide the results they hoped for. "Depth." "Find deep coins" "Going inches deeper."
All sort of references to these topics we hear and read about, and all too often they are made by people who don't really have [size=small](or apparently don't have)[/size] ample experience afield to understand typical or practical coin depth, or who also don't understand the target masking. many hunt with a lot of Discrimination to not hear, or even know, the amount of problem rejected targets that are present in such a number that they can still mask the shallow-to-typical depth targets. Many times I read how someone wants a bigger coil to go deeper ... in a trashy environment! it just isn't going to happen.
Therefore, the real difference between the two coils you asked about is how well the 'feel' to you when in use for a good duration, how satisfied you are with the end performance from them, and if the are a good match for the detector you are using, the settings chosen, and the sites selected to hunt. Personally, I have very little use for larger-sized search coils. I worked a 10X12 DD and White's 12" Concentric to evaluate how they performed for me in the mineralized ground I hunt, if I chose one to use for cache hunting or specific searches for larger sized relics. I preferred the 12" Concentric and have one mounted on a spare lower rod for time I might want to use it.
I also have 13X15 DD coils for my two other preferred detectors, but in all cases, the larger coils only get called to service for specific use. I use some 'standard' size search coils for most typical low-target, open-area hunting, but prefer smaller than stock because they weigh less, balance better, and hunt in and around brush, building rubble and dense trash better, and those are the sites I prefer to hunt and which have rewarded me best for a good 40+ out of 50 years of detecting.
If you have the 10X12 SEF I wouldn't be to concerned about the 13" Ultimate.
Monte
Size and shape. Both are DD coils and both are lighter than the White D2. I have used both exclusively on V3i, MXT Pro, MX5, and V3i. I would take either aftermarket coil over the Whites coil. If I were pinned down to recommend one or the other, I would take the SEF 10x12 and the only reason for that is the physical size. You will not go wrong picking either one.
RLOH said:
Thanks when I bought the SEF 10X12 I was not aware of the 13 Ultimate. Saying that I bought the 10X12 to cover ground and just looking at the two it seems like the 13" would not be as deep or sensitive on either end compared to the 10X12. It would seem that the 10X12 would be harder to Pin Point while the 13" would be deeper in the center and easier to Pin Point. I have no problem Pin Pointing with the 10X12 if I spend the time to really do it right. Unfortunately most of us do not spend that time and I often get off a couple inches. I do not see much if any difference in depth using the 10X12 if the target hits Front, Back, or in the Center. I am really pleased with the Coil. With the 10X12 SEF I do see junk on edge throwing the Pin Point off enough to irritate. Crushed Can bottoms in particular. Not sure about Masking. How can you judge a target you may have missed. To me VDI numbers mean everything and nothing. If I get a positive number that is not equal to a Pulltab, I am digging it. I know I have really made a lot of finds simply because I am covering a lot more Back yards and Vacant lots.
Saying that I am currently disabled. I hunted an old House that was freshly mowed and was attacked by Fleah eating Chiggers. I was totally eat up. Worse case I have ever had.
Larry (IL)
Well-known member
Size and shape........
Performance wise, they are pretty much a draw. Depending on many factors, the 10X12 is a little more selective separating multiple targets (10 inches wide) and the 13" obviously covers a little more ground (12" VS 13") and it is slightly deeper. I like and use the 10X12 as a general purpose coil in my ground.
Performance wise, they are pretty much a draw. Depending on many factors, the 10X12 is a little more selective separating multiple targets (10 inches wide) and the 13" obviously covers a little more ground (12" VS 13") and it is slightly deeper. I like and use the 10X12 as a general purpose coil in my ground.
Hardrock65
New member
The sef 10x12 was a little nose heavy, I mostly use the 6x10DD but suffers some depth.
On Larger coils:
Quite often people don't understand the reason for wanting larger coils, and/or the person requesting a larger coil doesn't explain their reasons very well. They simply might say "more depth".
Let's break that down a bit and explain a few things.
Possible reason #1: Better ground coverage where targets are few and far between. For example: Let's say you have 1-2 hours to spend detecting before you have to stop for the day/night. If you KNOW beforehand that there are few targets left (or available), your objective should be to cover (sweep) as much ground as possible during that 1-2 hour timeframe. Using a small coil would simply be out of the question. Might as well stay home. Now that doesn't mean that a small coil will not find anything, but that's not the point. The point is ---> time spent vs ground sweeped over.
Possible reason #2: You're detecting in woods with heavy layers of leaves/broken twigs laying all over the ground, AND, you already know that the targets found there are over 8 inches deep. Those on the East Coast know exactly what I'm taking about. I think those in other locales of the USA may have trouble comprehending the difficulties involved in the thick leaves/twigs enviroment. It might be 4-6 inches DOWN before the actual soil is reached. Factor in targets that are minimum 8 inches, and guess what, that adds up to 12-14 inches before getting a signal. A small coil really doesnt have much chance in this scenario.
J in FL (aka Tom/Dick/Harry)
Quite often people don't understand the reason for wanting larger coils, and/or the person requesting a larger coil doesn't explain their reasons very well. They simply might say "more depth".
Let's break that down a bit and explain a few things.
Possible reason #1: Better ground coverage where targets are few and far between. For example: Let's say you have 1-2 hours to spend detecting before you have to stop for the day/night. If you KNOW beforehand that there are few targets left (or available), your objective should be to cover (sweep) as much ground as possible during that 1-2 hour timeframe. Using a small coil would simply be out of the question. Might as well stay home. Now that doesn't mean that a small coil will not find anything, but that's not the point. The point is ---> time spent vs ground sweeped over.
Possible reason #2: You're detecting in woods with heavy layers of leaves/broken twigs laying all over the ground, AND, you already know that the targets found there are over 8 inches deep. Those on the East Coast know exactly what I'm taking about. I think those in other locales of the USA may have trouble comprehending the difficulties involved in the thick leaves/twigs enviroment. It might be 4-6 inches DOWN before the actual soil is reached. Factor in targets that are minimum 8 inches, and guess what, that adds up to 12-14 inches before getting a signal. A small coil really doesnt have much chance in this scenario.
J in FL (aka Tom/Dick/Harry)
JinFL said:
Lets add to this just a little. You have 10 Acres to hunt and limited time. The grass has been shredded with a Tractor and there is 4 to 6 inches of Stubble that makes swinging your Coil through it impossible. When waving your Coil over the top you give up one to two inches. You better have a big coil that goes deep otherwise you are wasting your time. A coin in the Dirt 2 inches at a Minimum had to be detected at 6 to 8 inches.