Searching for gold in moss on a bedrock surface

[Riverrick]

This is my first post. I have never used a metal detector and not sure which one to buy. I am making a trip to the Gold Country in N California. I will be using a gas powered vacuum to suction the fine gold out of the moss that grows on the verticle bedrock. I will be on a river that has A LOT of gold in the water and around the sides. It will be wet sand. There is a lot of black sand also.

From what I have read about treasure hunting it is 50% the function of the unit (buy the right unit) and 50% knowing what your detector is telling you (read and practice) and the other half is dumb luck.

My questions are:

Is it possible to detected fine gold on a rock surface?

If my main target is gold is there a specific brand name or ? ? ? ? that I should be looking at?

I have read that a Pulse Induction has deeper capability than a VLF. I have not seen that distinction on any of the units I have been reading about.

Do I need a special feature or function when using it on wet sand?

Is there a short check list of features I need to make sure of before buying?

I am not going to invest a lot in a detector. Hope to buy a slightly used unit. (Around $100)

This site seems to have a lot of valuable information. I am happy to have found such a great resource. Thanks to all that make it work.

Happy hunting to all,

Rick

 

[Dave J.]

Rick, no metal detector will detect fine "flour gold". If a dealer demos a machine that seems to contradict this, you've just been had by "dealer tricks". ........At the other extreme, any metal detector will detect a several pennyweight nugget lying on the surface. But there aren't very many of those.

In order to be taken seriously as a gold detector, a machine needs to have a ground balanced "autotune"/"SAT" all metals mode. Lowest price tag on those new is around $400-500. Not everything fitting this description is well suited to gold prospecting however. To be taken seriously as a gold machine, the unit needs to be able to detect (on the surface) 1 grain nuggets or smaller, otherwise it won't have any depth on larger nuggets.

Gold prospecting PI's will go deeper than a VLF in high mineral soils, but they are expensive, starting at about $1300.

To find a used metal detector which is really suitable for gold prospecting for $100, you're going to have to get lucky at a garage sale.

--Dave J.

 

[Riverrick]

David, thanks for the feedback. I may turn my efforts toward a more expensive used model that I can resale. My initial trip is one week.I just found a place in Grass Valley that rents a decent metal detector for $20 a day. Probably a better return on my investment.

Thanks again for your in-put,

Rick

 

[Lawrence S. Lagal]

Dear Rick My name is Larry Lagal , You may have herd of my father Roy Lagal and his books , im allmost 60 years old . im nobody special but ive made a liveing at Gold panning , dredgeing and hardrock mineing. There is no dector made that will find flour gold. You hunt black sand they boyh end up in the same place , if theres gold there. find a cheep dector to find iron -black sand, hemitite, - magnatite - they are boyh heavy and end up in the same place , but im still nobody famous .In the old days all we could do is find black sand and hope for the best .People famous wright books , but it comes down to , Gold is where you find it .

 

[salmonriverhotrock]

Hello Mr. Lagal

I have an older Garrett Master Hunter VLF-TR ADS and it was from a book, "Electronic Prospecting" by your father and Charles that I learned to detect black sand pockets.

These older machines still have a place in the right hands though they did not have the frills, bells, and whistles of today like found in the Whites GMT (for black sand). I do have a Whites V/SAT Gold Master and if the Salmon River flour gold is concentrated enough in a vial, I can detect it in air (no minerals to contend with) where my Garrett won't with the smallest coil but I believe it would be extremely rare to none a person would ever find a detectable concentrated deposit of flour gold. I know on my old Garrett, once you learn how to set the machine for detecting black sand deposits, other than not having a read out to give what percentage you have found, you still find black sand. I've yet though to see if I can do the same with my Whites V/SAT but maybe some day will play with my test sample bag. I do know though it will detect much smaller gold than the Garrett was designed to. Back in my old Garretts days, there were more nuggets around in it's range of detection in mineralized materials. Today after most larger gold at or near the sufaces has been found in the most of the popular and accessable places, even the Whites GM series and the Gold Bugs are becoming obsolete unless a major amount of materials have been moved by nature or man exposing virgin unhunted ground. Untill something like that happens and you are first to get to it or have a productive Claim, I think the P.I.'s are the way to go if you can afford to buy one for greater depth in mineralized conditions but only for bigger nuggets missing the small ones.

Sure wish I could have hunted in the days your father and Charles did before all the easier pickings were cleaned up. I'm not saying there are none to find but there are much much fewer to find as they did then. In my other book by your father and Charles, VLF-TR Metal Detector Handbook, I get a real kick out of looking at the pictures of your father and Charles out and about in the days there was real freedom to do the things they did. Also see he and Charles spent some time in my area of Idaho.

 

[Lawrence S. Lagal]

Dear Robert My name is larry my dads name is Mr Lagal you call me larry OK, You say your from Idaho well I was raised in Idaho. A place called Nusem Creek the south and north fork of Clearwater.Along a river and a place called Golden, and Elk City area. Back then i was taught to pan, sluce and rocker ,and hardrock-single and double jack. life was good then you could high bank and hydrolick. but things change , now i pan and dredge and do a little hunting nuggets around Nevada along the train tracks where i find a lot of surfaceGold .Speaking about the Samon River Do you know ( John Mock he is below Grangevill) on the Samon he dredges in 60 to 80 feet of water ive seen a lot of big 6ounce to 9ounce nuggets from him . Samon river Gold especially flour Gold, a quart jar would not be an ounce if you know what im talking about. Myself ive dredged almost everwhere in Idaho, And hunted half of it with a machine.I dont have but 2 machines 1 D-Tex By Bill Mayhan ,way before garrett, and a Puls-Deck made in France . Lots of machines were fashened after it.you seem to like P.I. s Well lets talk again OK . Sorry I got off the subject of Moss please forgive me . I sure miss Idaho , it was good to hear someone is still hunting there. By now Larry Lagal

 

[salmonriverhotrock]

My apology and stand corrected, it will be Larry.

I know exactly where Golden is and am sure you will recall "Hanging Rock" over the Hwy. that follows the South Fork of the Clearwater up to Elk City. My work has me up in that country every summer and one of our maintenance sheds is at Reeds Bar, just a hop away from what is left of the old power plant.

I have never heard of John Mock on the river here but will ask around and down by White Bird. I have though run into an Old Timer who did suction dredge diving many years ago here and his first name was Norman or Norm and his last was I believe Higgins. I got to sit and hear him talk of his days on the river dredging for gold around here and up to Riggins. He did not return last year as I heard his heart is not well and so remained in Boise near a Son.

The only gold I have found has been very fine with a Garrett pan and Keene hand sluice near Lucile on the Salmon River and on the Snake River south of Idaho Falls. In my electronic prospecting, I have yet to find any Gold. I however did buy two pieces, one at 1 grain and the other at 2 grain so I would have something to run my detector on in the field to make sure I can hear them in what ever mineral soils and rocks I encounter. In some old early 1900's Geologist reports, it is said there were some small nuggets found near Lucile but not many. I do find the normal junk but also the very tiny pieces of lead, some of it being bird shot. I'm told if I'm consistently finding tiny pieces of lead, if there is gold about the same size as I find lead, I'll detect it if it's there. I have worked some exposed bedrock in the river when low enough before but no luck detecting gold, just lead, old rusty fish hooks and brass swivels, nails, and such in the crevices.

As for the P.I. detectors, I do not have one but was just relaying what I understand about them so far. I do know a retired fellow who has one and he up-graded to it because most anything left in the already hunted places is now deeper than most other units will detect and he is willing to miss the smaller gold it would not detect. I believe the last coil he bought this summer is around 21 inches round. He is now down in Arizona for the winter but I'm sure will be back up come spring as his Son lives just up above. I am told he did find a nugget with that machine not far from here and all I can do is believe he did as the family says so. Have also heard a fellow a few years ago found an 8 oz. nugget near high water with a nice detector and was shown a picture of it by Norm. I also believe I found the hole that was dug to get it so had to of been a P.I. detector for how deep it was dug by the base of a bull pine tree.

Back on the Moss subject, I have found traces of gold in moss and other times not when panning and sluicing. I know of an instance here where a fellow missed on some bedrock above the present river a small picker with a Gold Bug but happen to have a portable vacuum and cleaned out some crevices he had checked with his detector and found it that way. I guess the way I do it is to leave all options open but it will cost money to have them all on hand. This same bed rock I have been over with every machine I have and I'm convinced it has simply been cleaned out way before I ever got to it. I've even hand cleaned and vacuumed crevices there and found nothing but bird shot and old square nails. The problem with moss is the work to break it up to get all the fine gold out but then I have found nothing to be easy with recovering gold, especially flour gold, except for something I use to keep the darn stuff from floating off. Have never owned or used a dredge and wish I had one but things are very tight. I am convinced though if gold was that easy to get here and there was a lot of it, everyone would be knocking doors down to get here to do it. A suction dredge is work but I do think a suction dredge would be more productive for the work you put in it. Dredge, vac-pack, sluice, or a gold pan still requires finishing the fines where a detector with a large enough piece of gold is just a matter of just pin pointing it once detected unless in hard rock.

I better get as it is getting late for dinner. It does sound as though you are enjoying Nevada and keeping busy. I have been through just about every part of it there is and some of it many times. I can not tell you how many times I wished I had the time to stop and pan, detect, or just explore. There are some very lonely places still left in Nevada. When you described the railroad tracks and looking for gold, there is one place that came immediately to mind. Sure hope to see you around on the boards here. I'm sure you have a wealth of experience to share and we would love to hear your stories. Golden and Elk City may have changed a bit since the last you saw but people still have claims in that country and on the river as well for dredging. The saw mill is also gone now.

Take care Larry

 

[Lawrence S. Lagal]

Dear Robert when you talked about Luciel and Riggins it brought back a lot of memeries, First I dredged alot along that river , mostly sand bars and bends in the river ,John Mock was below the road along the river at Luciel, people will rember him . as for Whitebird hill dad was the one who found the wellsfargo box under the tree that the calvery soldiers were skined on , do you know about the twin mounds (Indian Burial) on Whitebird hill ? all of this was secret back then . I usto dive for John Mock in 60 ft.of water he payed money to grubstake us back then , dad sold alot of big nuggets for him ,he worked the deep water and got Gold.Just past Riggens was a big wood building on the river heading twards Boise , it was China- Pollys -Whore -House I was one of the few people to find a Whore House Token , still have it in my callection , I collect tokens gota lot back then , Dad usto hunt down river from Riggins a few miles and cross over to the other side of the river there was agood road in a big canyoun, he would be gone all day and make it back to camp at dark . he would get nuggets , not verry big but he got them with a dector, it was past the old rock fireplace on th write sie of the road , i think it was a old homested. Probily gone by now , but try to find the road on the other side of the river OK you mite get some nuggets. Wellthe grandchildren are here so by for now my friend talk to you again , my e-mail is kitebuggier@the-i.net keep in touch OK Larry Lagal

 

[Lawrence S. Lagal]

Im verry verry sory i used bad words please forgive me .Im asking forgiveness from the Forum please .( you can also find me on Facebook under Larry Lagal )Sorry very much Larry

 

[jbow]

Larry,

Nice to meet you. Idaho is a beautiful state... most of the west is though.

Question, why is there gold around the RR tracks in Nevada?

Thanks,

Julien

 

[Lawrence S. Lagal]

Dear Julien In Nevada and espically in Arizona , There use to be hills and mountains, then with time they deteriated and blew away, All the gold was left on the surface of the ground, and sometimes in a few inches of ground , the ground has always been hard to hunt in because of highly mineralized ground, and a special problem to all detector owners called hotrocks and high carbon .Hence the ground along the rail road tracks has been disturbed, and exposed alot of gold nuggets that would not have been found otherwise, because they were too deep to find with a machine, because of the ground content, I hope that helps enliten you about our ground out West and our unusual hotrocks ,nobody special Larry Lagal P.S. you can read more about it in my dads books if you want more information.